When do you need a T25k? (1 Viewer)

[upNdown]

Edit - tldr - I think you don’t need a t25k until you have over a million chips in play, which on average probably means at least a 4-5 table tournament.

This often come up in suggested breakdown and group buy threads - when do you need a T25k chip?
Obviously it depends on tournament size and structure - I usually assume a base T25 structure and stack sizes from 10k to 30k.
I’ve sat at final tables of 100 person 30k tournaments when the only chips in play were T5k and T10k - that’s a problem because the T10k chip is inefficient in that situation, but even then, it works fine until you get down to around heads-up and you each have like 3 racks in front of you.
But I guess I’ll argue that assuming 20k starting stacks, you don’t need a T25k unless you’re playing 5 tables or more (or the equivilent in addons and rebuys.)
If you have 50 runners with 20k stacks, that’s a million chips in play. Toward the end, you’ll still need T5ks for blinds (and maybe T1ks for antes, but that’s another story.). If they’re all T5ks, that’s only two racks of chips in play, and I think that’s fine for heads-up and not nearly enough for a full final table. If you put a barrel of T25ks into play, you’d be down to 120 chips on the table, and I don’t think that’s enough.
So there’s my threshold - I say you don’t need a T25k chip unless you have more than a million chips in play. Which on average is probably around a 5 table tournament. And how many people run tournaments with 5 tables or more?

I know a lot of people use them in much smaller situations. So, when do you think you need them, and I guess the related question is, how many chips per person do you want in play toward the end of a tournament?

 

[justsomedude]

I agree that T25ks really don't need to come out in smaller T10-T30k tournaments. You'd really need a lot of players to warrant a T25,000 chip in a T10k tournament. And I think your barrier of 1,000,000 chips in play is pretty accurate.

That said, I sat in a T50,000 deepstack event where everyone got one T25,000 chip in their starting stack.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I routinely host two-table T20K tournaments (15ish players), and as much as I would like to, I never use the T25K chips.

I think three full tables is the smallest game where I would consider it.

 

[Jz44]

Agree. I put 25 of them in my set because I could, but if they ever get in play it will be because I forced them there just to use them. I've played many 70-100 person tournaments at the local card rooms with starting stacks between T8k and T20k, and they very rarely have a chip bigger than 5k in play. The vast majority of the tournaments I host if I would put even one in play it makes up something like 12-15% of the total chips, which doesn't make much sense

 

[TheBigTater]

Some formats don't start with t25 chips, some high roller formats starts with t100, t500 even t1K chips just so the higher denomination chips get into play.

but agree that in a normal T10K tournament starting with t25 chips the t25K is usually worthless.

 

[BGinGA]

Personal preference, but I think anywhere from 120-200 chips in play (two denominations) at tournament end is about perfect, with the sweet spot at around 160.

More than 200 results in a lot of chips getting moved around, slowing things down. Less than 100 usually means excessive change-making is required (again, slowing things down).

I run a 2-table 20K event* every month, and we get T25k chips in play every time -- they are used to color-up the T1000s (if it gets that far,) or to remove a rack of the excess T1000s once three-handed.

A T10k event really has no need for them, unless running 4+ tables.

* with bonus chips, re-buys, and add-ons -- average stack after re-buy period ends is ~30K.

 

[Nex]

Wouldn't the T25k still make sense for the bulk of rebuys in T30k starting stack tournaments?
Saves you a couple of chips when each rebuy is only two chips versus 6 chips.

 

[v1pe]

I've never gotten 25k's into play with 10k-15k stacks (2 tables).

That said, I ordered a rack of the PCF 25K chips because I wanted to be able to run deepstacked events with T100 base.

 

[JustinInMN]

So based on @v1pe and @BGinGA 's comments, maybe half a million is an ok threshold, which would be represented by a a single barrel of T25K.

But getting that would require 50 entries at T10K, so I would say unlikely to be needed at a typical home event without larger starting stacks.

Personally, I like 40-50 chips per player toward the end, so I would probably delay the introduction until coloring up 1K as BG suggests, but since I like more chips, I probably would have the threshhold closer to 1m as well. At least then heads up, each player could have a barrel.

 

[upNdown]

Wouldn't the T25k still make sense for the bulk of rebuys in T30k starting stack tournaments?
Saves you a couple of chips when each rebuy is only two chips versus 6 chips.

Sure, I think that's fine. And honestly, yeah, it's fun to have a few of the big chips on the table. But you don't NEED them for that purpose. I guess what prompted this was that I read somebody in a group buy thread saying "I need 25k's for my tournaments." And that got me thinking, if that's true, this guy must run some really big tournaments. (Or maybe he just uses some high roller format.)

 

[ilovegravy]

Sure, I think that's fine. And honestly, yeah, it's fun to have a few of the big chips on the table. But you don't NEED them for that purpose. I guess what prompted this was that I read somebody in a group buy thread saying "I need 25k's for my tournaments." And that got me thinking, if that's true, this guy must run some really big tournaments. (Or maybe he just uses some high roller format.)

I think some people just like the idea of having a lot of chips in play as well - even at the sacrifice of time and convenience. They see the WSOP and WPT on TV, players seated behind massive stacks at the final table, and they want that for themselves because it looks like fun.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I think some people just like the idea of having a lot of chips in play as well - even at the sacrifice of time and convenience. They see the WSOP and WPT on TV, players seated behind massive stacks at the final table, and they want that for themselves because it looks like fun.

Confirmed. For my .25/.50 cash games, I usually give each player a barrel of quarters and try to get all of my dollars on the table before breaking out too many fives.

It's inefficient, but it keeps the game fun for the players who like big stacks.

 

[TexRex]

Like most things, it's a matter of personal preference. What is a "need" to one person is not a "need" to another.

We have a freeze out, 40K tournament with typically 12-20 players. We use 25K chips near the end. I don't like as many chips on the table, especially toward the end. As long as there isn't a lot of change making, I start replacing 1000 and 5000 chips with 25K chips. It speeds up play. We use 20 min blinds, but I don't see those as long blinds, so anything that gets more hands in play within that 20 minutes I think makes for a better tournament. But do we really need the 25K chip with under 500K total? Define need.

 

[allforcharity]

If T25K is very rarely used, then it's even more incentive to use the T500/T2K/T10K progression, since it will be more even use than T500/T1K/T5K/T25K.