When Do You Cutoff a Blackout Player?

raynmanas

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I have one very close friend who a) has never had a drop of alcohol in his life and b) is a smart and excellent poker player. after 20 years of playing poker with him, not once has he ever suggested cutting any of us off.
 

Bluegrass Poker

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My house. My game. My rules. If you are that drunk, I’m going to have problems with you slowing the game down that much. Home games are as much for the social aspect of hanging out with my friends as the poker

But I will let you lose every single dollar you brought with you. But I am not giving you any credit if you are that drunk. Drunk yes. Blackout drunk then no.

But I will make sure you stay the night and or get home safe. And I will make sure you catch shit from everyone next time we play.
 

Moxie Mike

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Gamble is gamble. If I want to gamble while drunk, and I have the cash in my pocket to cover it, who are you to cut me off and tell me I’m too drunk to continue. I agree with the point that nobody will cut me off when I have everyone else’s money in front of me, so I should be treated the same when I’m down. This all assumes of course that I am not a belligerent drunk and that I can sleep it off or get a ride home.

I agree but I think there's a practical limit, Dave. We've all seen drunks at the table that lose and are constantly reloading... that's one thing. But when someone so intoxicated to where they're barely conscious, it becomes a moral dilemma for the host because by allowing the individual to continue to gamble in that condition, they are in a way taking advantage of the situation.

I agree that no one is going to encourage you to leave the game when you're way ahead on the night, but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. We're discussing the merits of allowing an inebriated player to continue to reload.

It's the type of thing where obviously it has to be handled on a case by case basis. But as host, I reserve the right to cut a player off if I deem necessary.
 

CrazyEddie

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I wouldn't enjoy playing poker with someone who was "blackout drunk" (or stoned), as the OP put it, at least not in my home games. Casino, fine. Someone else's home game, I wouldn't enjoy it but I'd deal with it if the rest of the game was fun. My home game? Forget it. I play poker for the fun of engaging others in an intellectual challenge, and if you're too plastered to stay awake between hands then I'd guide you to a nice spot on the couch where you can watch TV and either crash or sober up.

It's got nothing to do with wanting to take your money or with wanting to protect you from losing it all. It's got everything to do with being able to meaningfully participate in the evening's activity, one which requires your attention and at least some semblance of control over your faculties.

Your home games might be different. And that's fine. But this is mine.
 

Josh Kifer

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We have only really had this once. We just picked him up, put him in a chair, and he was out in minutes. Then we had to have the EMT of the group check on him, and he ended up needing to go to the ER.

He was in a bad spot in his life. Great dude tho and has figured it out.
 

Perthmike

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As someone who has played in this state, if you won't stop me when I'm taking $2k off the table, don't stop me when I'm losing as much.

I'm a grown ass man, if I want to sleep in a dog bed and have my winnings sprinkled over me as a blanket, that's my choice.

If I want to shove with a King high badugi, I can do that as well.
Hey I have tried to stop you when you were a long way in the profit. Does that mean I can try to stop you when you've lost heaps too lol.
 

BGinGA

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You quoted my post, and read way too much into it. I said this thread is one of many that makes me grateful for the group I play with. This thread talks about having people so drunk at your game that you have to decide whether to cut them off. There have been other threads where people have caught cheaters at their games. Many threads that talk about players being belligerent with other players. Many threads where people are concerned with their players damaging chips or cards etc. I don't have to deal with ANY of that in my game, and I'm thankful for that. That was my point.

We are all on this forum very different people in many ways. I play poker because I love the game and I love the social aspect of it. I don't play poker to win money. My game is a casual game among friends. I don't open it up to people I don't know, or somebody that at least can't be vouched for by one of my friends. I want a fun night in all ways. I don't want to deal with any bullsh*t. I don't care if I had a player who's going to donk off money to all of us every night. If he's a dick, I don't want him in my house, and my friends don't either. Do we drink at my games? Yeah, we do. Nobody gets blackout drunk. EVER. That's just my crowd, and that's what I like. I'm sure there are some who's games kind of revolve around drinking and get a kick out of some drunk antics and have funny stories to tell. If that works for them, great! I enjoy reading the stories, but it's just not my thing. Many of you would probably be bored AF at my game! To each his own, as I said, we're all different.

Having said all that, I will stand by my point that I think blackout drunk people should be cutoff at anyone's game. I refrained from stating the obvious analogies before, and I will now, I'm not here get in arguments with anyone, I'm just here to learn and for some entertainment :tup:
This pretty much reflects my attitude and group too, and I'm thankful for them as well.
 

DeusEx

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I've asked about a player that is 86- 90 years old, and needs help to walk, for the 'host' to consider at least encouraging him not to play. 1/3 of the time he can't read his hand, 1/3 of the time he makes horrible calls, 1/3 he didn't know it was on him.

I mean I feel bad, but its PLO and really I don't think the dude should be in the game, the responses I've gotten is, he's okay on money, and he's knows how to play. I believe someone brings him to the game, I can't fathom the dude driving.

Most of the games I play in people don't drink or its water lying about being beer, so geriatrics is what I have to deal with
 

Jake14mw

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I've asked about a player that is 86- 90 years old, and needs help to walk, for the 'host' to consider at least encouraging him not to play. 1/3 of the time he can't read his hand, 1/3 of the time he makes horrible calls, 1/3 he didn't know it was on him.

I mean I feel bad, but its PLO and really I don't think the dude should be in the game, the responses I've gotten is, he's okay on money, and he's knows how to play. I believe someone brings him to the game, I can't fathom the dude driving.

Most of the games I play in people don't drink or its water lying about being beer, so geriatrics is what I have to deal with
Interesting issue. Seems there are two separate issues, 1) should he be playing from his own perspective, i.e. he can't win and it's not fair to him, and 2) if he doesn't know the action is on him, than that affects the quality of the game for everyone else.

Very interesting timing personally for this to come up here today. I have some very minor cognitive issues myself, and I was thinking the other night when I was playing that I wonder when they will become enough of an issue where I shouldn't be playing. I actually thought about how bad I would feel if I couldn't play anymore, just because it's an important social activity for me. I'm fine now, but I can sense it will become an issue for me at a much younger age than most. And I was thinking of what we could do. We play tournaments. I actually thought of something where I could buy in for half the normal amount, and if I am in the money, only win half the normal amount. But that would not work because other players could angle that in their favor...etc... That wouldn't be necessary anyway, because we play low stakes. Losing every month would not be a financial issue.

Anyway, have mercy on the old guy, he was once a clear thinking guy like the rest of us. :(
 

upNdown

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Interesting issue. Seems there are two separate issues, 1) should he be playing from his own perspective, i.e. he can't win and it's not fair to him, and 2) if he doesn't know the action is on him, than that affects the quality of the game for everyone else.

Very interesting timing personally for this to come up here today. I have some very minor cognitive issues myself, and I was thinking the other night when I was playing that I wonder when they will become enough of an issue where I shouldn't be playing. I actually thought about how bad I would feel if I couldn't play anymore, just because it's an important social activity for me. I'm fine now, but I can sense it will become an issue for me at a much younger age than most. And I was thinking of what we could do. We play tournaments. I actually thought of something where I could buy in for half the normal amount, and if I am in the money, only win half the normal amount. But that would not work because other players could angle that in their favor...etc... That wouldn't be necessary anyway, because we play low stakes. Losing every month would not be a financial issue.

Anyway, have mercy on the old guy, he was once a clear thinking guy like the rest of us. :(
That's kind of what I was thinking - how would I feel if somebody told me I was too old to play poker?
Just tell me when it's on me, and let me have my fun!
 

Taghkanic

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I played for 5-6 years with a retired judge in his 80s, very spry, but getting on. He eventually removed himself from the game, mainly (he said) because he could not stay awake long enough to get in the money, and ended up dumping chips as he felt the drowsiness come on. We were sorry to see him go, but it was gracious of him to recognize the problem before it got out of hand, and before the group had to decide how to suggest he drop out.
 

upNdown

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water lying about being beer
Probably things like "lite" lagers, and other fermented beverages that masquerade as beer but are best used to keep hydrated.
EYE FREAKING ROLL
American light beers are cheap (perfect for me because I'm cheap), low calorie (perfect for most poker players I see, who often take up more space than their chair,) and wonderful because I can drink ten of them without getting all smashed. I love good beers too (note, I said good beers, not bitter IPAs) but they're not always practical.
 
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Schmendr1ck

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I've asked about a player that is 86- 90 years old, and needs help to walk, for the 'host' to consider at least encouraging him not to play. 1/3 of the time he can't read his hand, 1/3 of the time he makes horrible calls, 1/3 he didn't know it was on him.

I mean I feel bad, but its PLO and really I don't think the dude should be in the game, the responses I've gotten is, he's okay on money, and he's knows how to play. I believe someone brings him to the game, I can't fathom the dude driving.

Most of the games I play in people don't drink or its water lying about being beer, so geriatrics is what I have to deal with
I told a story a while back about a similar but more extreme situation. It was probably the only time I truly felt so bad about taking someone's money in a casino poker game that I stopped playing against the guy:

About two hours into the session, an elderly gentleman sat to my right with a much younger woman who seemed to be a caretaker/aide of some sort. The guy thought he was at a blackjack table at first. He clearly didn't have a clue what we were playing, how or when to bet, and he held his cards up where I could easily see them every time he looked. A couple of times, I heard him quietly adding up the board cards, again as if he were playing blackjack.

The dealer had to prompt him and explain his options every action, so he slowed the game tremendously. Two players got frustrated after a few hands, racked up and changed tables.

I was a) trying hard not to look at his cards and b) trying not to get in a hand with him. Normally I don't feel bad about taking someone's money in a casino poker game, and I've seen my share of clueless newbie acts. But with this guy, it was no act - he clearly had no clue what was going on, he should not have been there, and I really didn't know what to do. I just wouldn't feel right taking a big pot from the guy.

Fortunately, a floor came over and asked him to step aside and have a chat. He refused. A moment later, one of the security guards came by and asked the same thing. The guard was friendly at first, but stopped smiling when the guy repeatedly refused to get up from the table. Finally the guard gave the guy a rack, made it clear that the old fella was going to cash out and leave, voluntarily or otherwise, and it finally seemed to sink in enough that the guy slowly racked up and left the table.

We all breathed a sigh of relief, and I went back to losing money again.
 

DeusEx

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Anyway, have mercy on the old guy, he was once a clear thinking guy like the rest of us. :(
@Jake14mw The problem is its a 1/2 PLO game w/ a straddle, and he isn't shy to bet or bluff or miss read the cards. I can't change my play with multiway action, and it typically gets into the 300+ range on the river. I'm not pounding the guy, I just think with the stakes maybe he should look for a smaller game. Not that there are any that I know of. When there is a straight and a flush on the board, he's calling with 2 pair for hundreds of dollars, it cringy. I would be happy to play with him in the game, its more of a concern for him at this level, if it was .25/.25 then w/e but just feel bad 1/2 the time.

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I regret nothing, the end.
 
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DeusEx

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I'll give you a laugh for invoking Ron Swanson, because he's awesome.
But Ron never said that.
However, he did say "There's no wrong way to consume alcohol."
I think Ron's quote was about skim milk, not beer, but the internets..

and ..
Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets
 

Jake14mw

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@Jake14mw The problem is its a 1/2 PLO game w/ a straddle, and he isn't shy to bet or bluff or miss read the cards. I can't change my play with multiway action, and it typically gets into the 300+ range on the river. I'm not pounding the guy, I just think with the stakes maybe he should look for a smaller game. Not that there are any that I know of. When there is a straight and a flush on the board, he's calling with 2 pair for hundreds of dollars, it cringy. I would be happy to play with him in the game, its more of a concern for him at this level, if it was .25/.25 then w/e but just feel bad 1/2 the time.

View attachment 739642


I regret nothing, the end.
Yeah well at those stakes I would say it's unethical to let him continue to play. If he's losing hundreds per session, that's not right.
 

Stufflymcstuff

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to me it really depends on the person. there're a lot of people i'd have the heart to protect from themselves, but there're plenty i wouldn't go easy on. offering them credit? that's crossing a line for sure. but if it's someone who i respect who isn't broke pulls out a few extra $20 bills while piss drunk, they're fair game.

wrt him trying to drive home black out drunk - definitely have a conversation with him the next day after driving him home, but if he does it again i'm not even sure how to proceed. do you call the police? he's playing with other peoples lives and getting his license suspended is probably for the best.
 
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