When Do You Cutoff a Blackout Player?

Schmendr1ck

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Funny, that's exactly where I cut him off. Didn't know if that's too low, too high, or just right (thoughts?), but it was the biggest loss booked by a single person in our game, and 1000 BBs felt nice and round.
I'd say it's game and player dependent, but I think a good rule of thumb would be that whatever your players consider "a really bad night" is probably a good cutoff point.

For my group, down $400-500 is a really bad night, so that's why I think I'd draw the line at $500. Nobody's missing a bill payment over that amount, but it's enough to sting badly and maybe convince them to drink a little less next time. ;)
 

CraigT78

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As someone who has played in this state, if you won't stop me when I'm taking $2k off the table, don't stop me when I'm losing as much.

I'm a grown ass man, if I want to sleep in a dog bed and have my winnings sprinkled over me as a blanket, that's my choice.

If I want to shove with a King high badugi, I can do that as well.
 

BNM

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There are a lot of “club and fang” folks on this site: he’s an adult and can make his own decisions, etc.

if someone in a similar state pulled out a .45 automatic and said “watch me play Russian roulette!”, would you just let him/her? Less extreme, and more to the point, example: if someone drank too much at your home, passed out on the ground and sha* themselves (or looked like they were going to) would you just say, “he’s and adult and can make his own decisions”?

To me this is the abdication of responsibility and, as equally important, friendship. Sure, if you don’t give a shi* about the person, let them toss $1000 down the drain because they are too drunk to know their ass from their elbow. That attitude is alarming (anyone have sons or daughters that attend parties?).

I wouldn’t (and don’t) want to play with people who would be okay with this. If someone makes the cut and comes into my home or game then they can feel confident they won’t be taken advantage of (because that’s what this is). I’d have a talk with them later about their boozing and pokering and, if necessary, limit one or both, but the idea to just let them diarreah out money while they are drunk as a skunk is just a shi*bag move.

But, that’s just me and probably why I wouldn’t play with a lot of the folks on here.
 

CraigT78

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There are a lot of “club and fang” folks on this site: he’s an adult and can make his own decisions, etc.

if someone in a similar state pulled out a .45 automatic and said “watch me play Russian roulette!”, would you just let him/her? Less extreme, and more to the point, example: if someone drank too much at your home, passed out on the ground and sha* themselves (or looked like they were going to) would you just say, “he’s and adult and can make his own decisions”?

To me this is the abdication of responsibility and, as equally important, friendship. Sure, if you don’t give a shi* about the person, let them toss $1000 down the drain because they are too drunk to know their ass from their elbow. That attitude is alarming (anyone have sons or daughters that attend parties?).

I wouldn’t (and don’t) want to play with people who would be okay with this. If someone makes the cut and comes into my home or game then they can feel confident they won’t be taken advantage of (because that’s what this is). I’d have a talk with them later about their boozing and pokering and, if necessary, limit one or both, but the idea to just let them diarreah out money while they are drunk as a skunk is just a shi*bag move.

But, that’s just me and probably why I wouldn’t play with a lot of the folks on here.
Apples and oranges.

Of course someone who shits themselves should be helped home.

You're going to extremes.
 

BNM

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Apples and oranges.

Of course someone who shits themselves should be helped home.

You're going to extremes.
Of course, it’s analogy. But, I totally disagree with you. You (royal) want to reach into their wallet while they are drunk. That’s not extreme?

It’s not just about helping them home. It’s about not fleecing them when they can’t tell what state they are in, and I don’t mean state of mind.
 

Dugthefish

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If he was passing out drunk, sitting on a mountain of chips, calling every bet and just getting hit by the deck, would anyone still cut him off? If not, then let him play till he's out of cash.
 

CraigT78

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Of course, it’s an a plug. But, I totally disagree with you. You want to reach into their wallet while they are drunk. That’s not extreme?
I come to a home game with $1,000 in my pocket when I'm stone cold sober. Let's say I over induldge and I start playing sloppy, why would anyone have an objection to me spending what I was okay with spending when I was sober?

I don't cut off John because he shoves his flush into a paired board every single time.
 

BNM

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I come to a home game with $1,000 in my pocket when I'm stone cold sober. Let's say I over induldge and I start playing sloppy, why would anyone have an objection to me spending what I was okay with spending when I was sober?

I don't cut off John because he shoves his flush into a paired board every single time.
There is, of course, an element of degrees here, concur? I like to drink, chat and play. This is the social element of this awesome game.

But, when it becomes obvious (and I’ve pretty much never seen it not be obvious) that I can’t spell c-a-t or count to 10 without help (pass a field sobriety test maybe?) then we are well into the “take advantage of this person” stage.

Like I said, that’s just me and I know who I would, and would not, want to play with in this arena.
 

Hornet

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Gamble is gamble. If I want to gamble while drunk, and I have the cash in my pocket to cover it, who are you to cut me off and tell me I’m too drunk to continue. I agree with the point that nobody will cut me off when I have everyone else’s money in front of me, so I should be treated the same when I’m down. This all assumes of course that I am not a belligerent drunk and that I can sleep it off or get a ride home.
 

bsdunbar1

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I don't cut them off.
I am in the "They are grown men" camp.
I have had hammered drunk players go home with all the money many times.

If they can function enough to look at their cards & get chips in the pot, their chips are fair game.
 

philhut

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Keep an eye on people at your games. I still cringe at the events of a game that happened over 10yrs ago now. An attendant drank way to much and was thought to be sat down to watch TV when the next thing was noticed, he was driving out of the driveway. That same guy was involved in a multiple vehicle DUI crash that resulted in a woman and all of her children killed. there were two cars involved with two DUI drivers and a innocent vehicle....the details of exactly what happened are grey but the guy I knew basically got off with probation conditions and even maintained their professional career. The person involved was locally rather well known and escaped much of the media attention that the main party involved was charged with and served time. In short if you offer alcohol etc also be prepared to supervise and offer a bed to crash in for those who have too much. You don't want anything like this anywhere on your conscience.
 

Coyote

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If it's a game between friends, or even socially related people, once somebody gets badly drunk, they should be out of the game and not served any more alcohol.
Hell, even if that was just a non-poker related party, you wouldn't let one of your guests (whom you supposedly like enough to invite) end up in hospital or worse.

Drunk or not, I 've always believed in the usefuleness of having a total night cap per player, to either protect drunks and gambling addicts, or protect the rest of the table from people with pockets many times deeper than the stakes of the specific table.

Last time this (drunkness during poker) occured in my house, the person was removed from the game when it got clear he couldn't deal anymore (in a self-dealt game) and was driven home by someone else (less drunk but still drunk), but they forgot to close the building's main door, leaving the latter (the building):D at the disposal of petty burglars and stray animals.

Loans, of course, should be out of the question in any home game, IMHO. Any person fit to play poker should be fit enough to walk or drive the 10+10 minutes round trip to and from the closest ATM. Cash only accepted at the Athenian Owl Club.:)
 
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Schmendr1ck

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As someone who has played in this state, if you won't stop me when I'm taking $2k off the table, don't stop me when I'm losing as much.

I'm a grown ass man, if I want to sleep in a dog bed and have my winnings sprinkled over me as a blanket, that's my choice.

If I want to shove with a King high badugi, I can do that as well.
You, my friend, are a different beast than the regs in my home game.

I know that whenever I sit down at the table with you, every penny in your pocket is up for grabs whether you're sober (hah!) or shit-faced. And I've seen you get smashed by the deck while you were so drunk you could barely read your own hand.

So in your case, I would feel bad if I didn't try to take your last dollar while you were wasted. You'd do the same for me. :love: :love: :love:
 

Schmendr1ck

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Gamble is gamble. If I want to gamble while drunk, and I have the cash in my pocket to cover it, who are you to cut me off and tell me I’m too drunk to continue. I agree with the point that nobody will cut me off when I have everyone else’s money in front of me, so I should be treated the same when I’m down. This all assumes of course that I am not a belligerent drunk and that I can sleep it off or get a ride home.
This is why I said earlier that it's very dependent on the game and the specific player.

I couldn't in good conscience take $1000 from one of my home game regs when they were blasted out of their mind. OTOH, I'd do it no problem with Craig as I said above. Different players, different approaches.
 

upNdown

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Thread #121 that makes me thankful that I play with the group that I play with!
I guess I’m a little hurt or confused that somebody might think I’m unfit for their game because of my position on this. I’m not trying to take advantage of anybody. I’M TREATING PEOPLE AS I’D WANT TO BE TREATED. I’ve played at least once where I was so wasted I couldn’t keep my head up. It was a winning session. I’ve played stone cold sober and made horrible decisions and been knocked out of a tournament in the first level.

There are countless factors that affect somebody’s play, and drunkenness is just one of them. It isn’t up to me to decide which factors are having a negative effect on a friend’s game. And as I’ve said, on the rare occasions where I’ve been THAT hammered, I’ve wanted to play. If somebody shut me off, I promise you, I wouldn’t be grateful the next day. I’d be annoyed at you for treating me like a child and I’d be annoyed with myself for getting so drunk that I put you in that position. But I wouldn’t be appreciative that you might have saved me some money, because you might well have cost me money, but you definitely cost me fun.
 
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CraigT78

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#1- failed.
#2- I made the messy bet.
#3 - I bought chips all night
#4- 100% pokerclack, got me.
#5- look away!!
#6- he looked at his chips! The edge spots were aligned.
#7- ABC - always be checking.
#8- I shrug when my beer is empty. I'm sad.
#9- I've never seen anyone nervous at a meetup.
#10- I reach for my chips and people lick their lips. What's that mean?
 

JustinInMN

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Do y'all cut people off if you think they've had enough? If so, how do you make that determination--unilaterally or via group consensus? How many buy-ins would you allow a blackout player?

I have never had to cut anyone off, but when it comes to consumption, my house rule has been to feel free to consume, but don't inebriate yourself to the point you slow down the game, and plan a sober way home.

I would have absolutely picked this player up when he couldn't stay awake long enough to play.
 

moose

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As someone who has played in this state, if you won't stop me when I'm taking $2k off the table, don't stop me when I'm losing as much.

I'm a grown ass man, if I want to sleep in a dog bed and have my winnings sprinkled over me as a blanket, that's my choice.

If I want to shove with a King high badugi, I can do that as well.

I cut you off last year at SQM when you got to the point of playing every hand and calling every street and rolling over your cards with no idea what game you were even playing.

I think you were up over a grand at the time.

I don't want to win money that way. I don't care how you feel about it.
 

Jake14mw

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I guess I’m a little hurt or confused that somebody might think I’m unfit for their game because of my position on this. I’m not trying to take advantage of anybody. I’M TREATING PEOPLE AS I’D WANT TO BE TREATED. I’ve played at least once where I was so wasted I couldn’t keep my head up. It was a winning session. I’ve played stone cold sober and made horrible decisions and been knocked out of a tournament in the first level.

There are countless factors that affect somebody’s play, and drunkenness is just one of them. It isn’t up to me to decide which factors are having a negative effect on a friend’s game. And as I’ve said, on the rare occasions where I’ve been THAT hammered, I’ve wanted to play. If somebody shut me off, I promise you, I wouldn’t be grateful the next day. I’d be annoyed at you for treating me like a child and I’d be annoyed with myself for getting so drunk that I put you in that position. But I wouldn’t be appreciative that you might have saved me some money, because you might well have cost me money, but you definitely cost me fun.
You quoted my post, and read way too much into it. I said this thread is one of many that makes me grateful for the group I play with. This thread talks about having people so drunk at your game that you have to decide whether to cut them off. There have been other threads where people have caught cheaters at their games. Many threads that talk about players being belligerent with other players. Many threads where people are concerned with their players damaging chips or cards etc. I don't have to deal with ANY of that in my game, and I'm thankful for that. That was my point.

We are all on this forum very different people in many ways. I play poker because I love the game and I love the social aspect of it. I don't play poker to win money. My game is a casual game among friends. I don't open it up to people I don't know, or somebody that at least can't be vouched for by one of my friends. I want a fun night in all ways. I don't want to deal with any bullsh*t. I don't care if I had a player who's going to donk off money to all of us every night. If he's a dick, I don't want him in my house, and my friends don't either. Do we drink at my games? Yeah, we do. Nobody gets blackout drunk. EVER. That's just my crowd, and that's what I like. I'm sure there are some who's games kind of revolve around drinking and get a kick out of some drunk antics and have funny stories to tell. If that works for them, great! I enjoy reading the stories, but it's just not my thing. Many of you would probably be bored AF at my game! To each his own, as I said, we're all different.

Having said all that, I will stand by my point that I think blackout drunk people should be cutoff at anyone's game. I refrained from stating the obvious analogies before, and I will now, I'm not here get in arguments with anyone, I'm just here to learn and for some entertainment :tup:
 

Littleluck55

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Haha....you guys are better people than my friends. My friends are ruthless and would take every penny from me and ask me if my mom can bring me some more money. But, it’s the same 10 guys I went to grade school with and it’s always been that way. We aren’t betting our mortgage or food money. As long as the game is being played decent and you aren’t an asshole, they will take your money. And they will text you first thing in the morning to tell you how bad you sucked the night before.

Edit: @CraigT78 You, sir, are invited to our game anytime, and we will not cut you off.
 
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Nanook

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I can see good points on both sides of this, let him play or cut him off.
I think when I am in a Casino or Card Room the "Fleece him for everything he's got" voice in my head is much stronger then it is when I am in a home game with a bunch of friends. I have very few friends that are heavy drinkers so in 35 yrs of hosting Poker games this situation has never come up in my home game. I am not saying I have never seen it, just not in MY game. If it ever did come up and the guy was slowing down play in my home game I would give him a warning and then cut him off.

In a Card Room/Casino I have seen this situation so many times I can't count. I have even been the one arguing to keep the guy in the game, but at the same time I have spoken to the floor and even the Superivsors at times about talking to certain people that I feel should not be allowed to play. When an old man who you have been playing with for 20+ yrs and used to play reasonably well has mentally deteriorated to the point where he calls raises on the river and rolls over hands like 8 high it is time to be done with poker. Someone in his family or what ever needs to be notified and that guy needs to be cut off. It could be drinking related or other things, but I do believe that even though we are all adults, we are also human beings and as such there are just certain situations where the right thing is to step in and stop someone from playing any more.
 

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This is why I said earlier that it's very dependent on the game and the specific player.

Like most things in life, there is a lot more gray in this situation than black and white, so this ^^ is probably the best answer. EVERYONE here is right, in a way. You have to know the players in your game. Folks who would be upset about being cut off, let them play on until they run out of cash (extend them no credit though). People who would be unhappy if you let them continue losing, cut them off and send them home in an Uber. It's a bit like coaching a football team - some guys need a pat on the back while others need a kick in the rear.
 
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