What's the ruling on this?

SixSpeedFury

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This incident happened last night at a friend's house. Playing tournament, 5 handed. blinds at 500/1k. With 9.8k behind I'm first to act and shove with :ks::qs:. Folds to the button, who is monster chip leader, calls. SB, who has 21k completes, BB folds. Flop is :4c::4d::th:. SB shoves for his last 11.2k, button calls. SB flips over :ts::tc: for flopped boat, button flips over :ah::qd:. Turn :qh: river :qc: for higher boat. This is where the debate happens. The host proceeds to chop the main and side pot and button says "whoa whoa whoa, what are you doing? All you have to do is chop the main, I take the side pot." Host goes to say that no, both pots get chopped and distributed. I say button is correct since all I could win was the main, they were battling for the side pot. Host says house rules, both pots get chopped. What is the correct ruling here?
 
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BGinGA

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Main pot = 30,400
Side pot = 22,400

Side pot is awarded first: QQQ44 vs TTTQQ, button wins (AQ), SB loses (TT). Button wins 22,400, SB's hand is mucked.
Main pot is awarded last: QQQ44 vs QQQ44, UTG (KQ) splits with button (AQ). UTG wins 15,200, button wins 15,200.

Any other decision is wrong. House rules do not apply when it comes to hand rankings and how pots are awarded.

Button got screwed in OP's scenario. Host is an idiot.


EDIT: corrected awarded amounts. twice.
 
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Ronoh

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Any other decision is wrong. House rules do not apply when it comes to hand rankings and how pots are awarded.

Button got screwed in OP's scenario. Host is an idiot.
Obviously this. It's really not even possible to have a differing opinion.
 

NiceShot

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How long has the host been playing poker? What BGinGA said is spot on.

You cannot win or split a pot that you didn't have chips to participate in, hence a side pot.
 

Ronoh

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I am a bit curious to know if the house rules would have allowed you to scoop the entire pot if the board ran out KK instead of QQ? If not, what the difference? If so, why is he even bothering fucking around with a "side pot"?

If you bother playing there again try to never go all in, always try to save at least one of the smallest denomination chips if you're involved in a big hand. Maybe he'll see the light if you scoop a T50,000 pot when you started the hand with a single T100 ;)
 

NiceShot

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What also bothers me is it seems he didn't really hear everyone out. He pulled the power trip move of my house rather than admit he was wrong, or did he really not understand the reasoning...
 

SixSpeedFury

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It's not the first time something like this happens either, host is a power trip kind of guy.
 

SixSpeedFury

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Yeah, it's one of those games where buy-ins last until a certain time, you don't get blinded out if you're running late cause we're buddies, etc. Looking it over, isn't the main pot 9.8k x 3 = 29.4k?
 
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BGinGA

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Yeah, it's one of those games where buy-ins last until a certain time, you don't get blinded out if you're running late cause we're buddies, etc. Looking it over, isn't the main pot 9.8k x 3 = 29.4k?

Actually, the main pot is 30,400: 9800 utg all-in + 9800 button call + 9800 sb call + 1000 bb fold. Side pot is 22,400: 11,200 sb shove + 11,200 button call.

Proper payouts should be:
button gets 22,400 side pot
utg & button split main pot 15,200 each

I had been up/awake for about 8 minutes when i posted the original response (since corrected). Moral: don't play poker (or do poker math) immediately upon arising, and don't play poker when idiots have the power/authority to make up and enforce stupid rules. Feel free to print this thread and email it to him.
 

Ronoh

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Actually, the main pot is 30,400: 9800 utg all-in + 9800 button call + 9800 sb call + 1000 bb fold. Side pot is 22,400: 11,200 sb shove + 11,200 button call.

Proper payouts should be:
button gets 22,400 side pot
utg & button split main pot 15,200 each

I had been up/awake for about 8 minutes when i posted the original response (since corrected). Moral: don't play poker (or do poker math) immediately upon arising, and don't play poker when idiots have the power/authority to make up and enforce stupid rules. Feel free to print this thread and email it to him.
You being you, NiceShot and I both assumed your math was correct without even double checking your initial response. Should I be concerned with allowing you to handle chopping pots next time we are on the same table? ;)
 

CO0LHand

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You being you, NiceShot and I both assumed your math was correct without even double checking your initial response. Should I be concerned with allowing you to handle chopping pots next time we are on the same table? ;)

Only if it's a 5am game would be my guess.
 

BGinGA

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Was up very late Friday night and slept in until almost 11:30 yesterday (usually up by 5:00 am), because Saturday was poker day and I knew it would be a long night. Three tournaments, starting at 1 pm -- we finished up at 3:00 a.m. (note that I caught my earlier math error at 4:00 a.m.). Finished 1st, 3rd, 2nd (yes, there were more than three players). I've found that sleeping in late works to my advantage endurance-wise, I just need to wait until I'm actually awake before I start crunching numbers and posting online. :confused:

For those interested, the three tournaments were deep-stack NLHE, pot-limit SOLHE w/re-buy, and limit Scrotum. Scrotum is quickly becoming a crowd favorite (no gonad jokes, please!) -- it requires a lot of deep thought, in addition to good starting hand selection/determination discipline and alert player/play reading skills. It's a pretty unique game in the poker world, imo - highly recommended.
 

Ben

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This isn't a "house rule" situation. This is a misunderstanding of the fundamental rules of EXISTENCE situation.

FYP - even being poker doesn't have much to do with this situation. I'd hate to see how this guy applies his "house rules" if he ever had, say, a roommate with split bills...

Not that it matters since I'd never be back anyway, but who got the other half of the side pot? Was it the guy with the losing hand, or the guy with no chips in it? I can't wrap my head around either one.
 

SixSpeedFury

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We both got half of the main AND side pot. I knew it was wrong, but hey, house rules....
 

NiceShot

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You being you, NiceShot and I both assumed your math was correct without even double checking your initial response. Should I be concerned with allowing you to handle chopping pots next time we are on the same table? ;)
^^This. Note to self, always double check even if it's Dave. Haha.
 

MaxB

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wow, I'd be pissed no matter what side of the winnings I was on....... I'd also think twice about playing a game there again
 

courage

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What am I missing? Button is monster chip leader and scoops with queens full.
 
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