...and I would add, having very specific written rules has come in handy for you more than once. It's hard for somebody to argue with you on a ruling when you can point to the exact rule that applies to the situation.
What would be on your "Ten Commandments" list? (etiquette, not strategy) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Beakertwang
- Start date
...and I would add, having very specific written rules has come in handy for you more than once. It's hard for somebody to argue with you on a ruling when you can point to the exact rule that applies to the situation.
dkersey
Straight
I had a guy pick up his phone while in a hand to do the usual screwing around. I'm sure it was out of habit. Of course it was his turn and he wasn't paying attention. Since I was the host, I blurted out in mock seriousness something to the effect of "no phone while in a hand, Sir". He quickly played after that.
It shouldn't have to be a rule as it is common courtesy but unfortunately so many people pick them up out of habit when they have a moment of idleness, it might be wise to add one.
How about "Thou shalt not not covet thy neighbour's chips"? Might as well get the double negative in there.
Thou shalt not steal thy host's Chips.
Thou shalt wash thy hands should they be dirtied away from the Table, lest you soil your host's Chips.
Let the man with two Buy-Ins share with the man who has none.
Thou shalt proclaim the nuts with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength.
Thou shalt always give thanks to thy Host, who has delivered you out of the land of dice chips.
Blessed are the wise, for they shall inherit the Pot.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
I'm sitting in a buddy's game reading this thread on my phone right now
Since we are just talking etiquette and not strategy:
1. When somebody asks whose turn it is, 90 percent of the time, it is his/her turn. Thou shall pay attention (unless you are better than me, then be distracted).
2. When there is controversy, you are not the tournament director. Thou shall let the TD do his/her job (at least until he/she messes up).
3. When there are side pots, you are not the dealer. Thou shall let the dealer do his/her job (unless the dealer stinks).
4. When playing in a tournament, it's not heads up until only two remain in the tournament. Thou shall not discuss hands until the hand is over (unless you are giving me good information I can use later).
5. The chips are an important tool and very valuable (in most cases). Thou shall treat chips with respect and not throw them around (unless you're playing with dice chips, then nobody cares).
6. When playing in a tournament, you are on a clock. If you need to take time to make a decision, fine, but there is no camera on you, we're not in Burbank or Hollywood, and 72o in early position is an easy fold almost always. Thou shall make decisions in a reasonable amount of time (unless I have a huge chip lead on everybody and the blinds are about to go up again).
7. When you lose a pot to a donkey move, remember that you've lucked out before, too. Thou shall not tap on the glass (unless ... wait ... no, there is no exception to this one. Just smile and remember it for later.)
8. When you win a pot, nobody really cares how great you played it. Thou shall not brag about your great reads and brilliant play (unless you are providing me with valuable information I can use against you later. Besides, it probably wasn't all that brilliant, anyway.)
9. Don't use all your small chips to make a bet and then ask for change two hands later because you only have a T500 for your T25 ante. Thou shall practice appropriate chip management (unless you can make your chip stacks even and pretty by using specific chips...then it is OK.)
10. We play poker because it is fun. Many of us find that well-defined rules and following them are actually more conducive to having fun. Thou shall not call the Tournament Director or Host a rules nazi for enforcing them (unless you don't want to get invited back to the game).
1. When somebody asks whose turn it is, 90 percent of the time, it is his/her turn. Thou shall pay attention (unless you are better than me, then be distracted).
2. When there is controversy, you are not the tournament director. Thou shall let the TD do his/her job (at least until he/she messes up).
3. When there are side pots, you are not the dealer. Thou shall let the dealer do his/her job (unless the dealer stinks).
4. When playing in a tournament, it's not heads up until only two remain in the tournament. Thou shall not discuss hands until the hand is over (unless you are giving me good information I can use later).
5. The chips are an important tool and very valuable (in most cases). Thou shall treat chips with respect and not throw them around (unless you're playing with dice chips, then nobody cares).
6. When playing in a tournament, you are on a clock. If you need to take time to make a decision, fine, but there is no camera on you, we're not in Burbank or Hollywood, and 72o in early position is an easy fold almost always. Thou shall make decisions in a reasonable amount of time (unless I have a huge chip lead on everybody and the blinds are about to go up again).
7. When you lose a pot to a donkey move, remember that you've lucked out before, too. Thou shall not tap on the glass (unless ... wait ... no, there is no exception to this one. Just smile and remember it for later.)
8. When you win a pot, nobody really cares how great you played it. Thou shall not brag about your great reads and brilliant play (unless you are providing me with valuable information I can use against you later. Besides, it probably wasn't all that brilliant, anyway.)
9. Don't use all your small chips to make a bet and then ask for change two hands later because you only have a T500 for your T25 ante. Thou shall practice appropriate chip management (unless you can make your chip stacks even and pretty by using specific chips...then it is OK.)
10. We play poker because it is fun. Many of us find that well-defined rules and following them are actually more conducive to having fun. Thou shall not call the Tournament Director or Host a rules nazi for enforcing them (unless you don't want to get invited back to the game).
thou shall not cheat
-Thou shalt not hit and run
-Thou shalt win and lose graciously
-Thou shalt have fun
-Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy arrival and/or departure time
-I am the Lord who giveth rules, which are unchanging. You shall have no other rules beside these.
-Honor thy fellow players, tournament director, and especially thy host
IMO these above items shouldn't be the focus. For example. if someone doesn't know how to win or lose graciously by now then a simple rule won't change their character.
I would simplify your list to actual rules of the game that affect game play. For example:
- Don't splash the pot
- Cards and chips stay on the table
- Players not sitting at the table don't get dealt a hand
- No rabbit hunting (or charge a fee)
- Only the banker handles cash and chip rebuys/cashouts
You know the situation better than me...maybe your crew needs some etiquette guidelines. However to me the rules of play should be the focus.
Sometimes people will have good reasons to hit and run or leave early so this is hard to enforce. Sometimes people will get mad when they lose...its all a part of the game. I think if your game runs smoothly and you build your invite list over time you will build a consistent good home game.
-Thou shalt win and lose graciously
-Thou shalt have fun
-Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy arrival and/or departure time
-I am the Lord who giveth rules, which are unchanging. You shall have no other rules beside these.
-Honor thy fellow players, tournament director, and especially thy host
IMO these above items shouldn't be the focus. For example. if someone doesn't know how to win or lose graciously by now then a simple rule won't change their character.
I would simplify your list to actual rules of the game that affect game play. For example:
- Don't splash the pot
- Cards and chips stay on the table
- Players not sitting at the table don't get dealt a hand
- No rabbit hunting (or charge a fee)
- Only the banker handles cash and chip rebuys/cashouts
You know the situation better than me...maybe your crew needs some etiquette guidelines. However to me the rules of play should be the focus.
Sometimes people will have good reasons to hit and run or leave early so this is hard to enforce. Sometimes people will get mad when they lose...its all a part of the game. I think if your game runs smoothly and you build your invite list over time you will build a consistent good home game.
OP
OP
@Lemonzest, I understand you're saying about the rules that affect play. I am in the process of gathering an official rule book. Frankly, I don't expect anyone to read those except me, although anyone will be welcome, and encouraged, to look them over.
My Ten Commandments will be about establishing culture for our game. There are only a couple players who have experience in casinos, or other "real" games, and there will be a lot of novices, especially at the beginning.
Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if they start calling me "the rules Nazi" as @Gobbs said, a son long as it's in good fun, and they begin to help me form the culture.
My Ten Commandments will be about establishing culture for our game. There are only a couple players who have experience in casinos, or other "real" games, and there will be a lot of novices, especially at the beginning.
Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if they start calling me "the rules Nazi" as @Gobbs said, a son long as it's in good fun, and they begin to help me form the culture.
I think the rules and etiquette points that most need emphasizing for new or inexperienced players are (in no particular order):
Rules should be posted using the 'official' language of the game. If that's Olde English or biblical Latin, so be it. If not, make the list easy to read and understand. Clarity >>>> cuteness.
- treat the equipment and players with respect
- be a gracious winner and a gracious loser - no whining or gloating
- cards and chips stay on the table at all times and in clear view
- no discussion of actions, hands, or hand possibilities during a live hand (including what you folded)
- pay attention and act promptly when it's your turn
- bets remain in front of you until all action is complete - no splashing the pot
- only the dealer touches cards and chips (except yours)
- verbal bets are binding, regardless of physical actions
- no string-betting - the first action is all that counts (unless verbally announced prior)
Rules should be posted using the 'official' language of the game. If that's Olde English or biblical Latin, so be it. If not, make the list easy to read and understand. Clarity >>>> cuteness.
Clarity >>>> cuteness
Dave's list above is great. Also on the topic of clarity being more important....it really is. Don't use the rules as an opportunity to make a joke. Then you are literally making the rules a joke...keep the rules a serious thing that people need to pay attention to.
If you put the rules in old english people will get a laugh from it and move on. Dave's list is concise and to the point.
Dave's list above is great. Also on the topic of clarity being more important....it really is. Don't use the rules as an opportunity to make a joke. Then you are literally making the rules a joke...keep the rules a serious thing that people need to pay attention to.
If you put the rules in old english people will get a laugh from it and move on. Dave's list is concise and to the point.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I disagree. A dry rulesheet won't be read beyond the first 2-3 rules. An entertaining set of rules will be read through.
Not that I support the 10 commandments versions, as religious types might be offended that you are mocking their deepest belief and might feel unwelcome.
OP
OP
I would be considered a "religious type" by many. In fact, many of our players are from our church, including the pastor. Any religious types who may be offended by a Ten Commandments-inspired rules sheet, would likely be more offended by the poker itself.
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I'm offended that you're offended that I'm allowed to be offended...wait, I lost track.
OP
OP
mkiefer009
Pair
#2 Brings up a good point. Do you take a % as a host for food/drinks? Or BYOB, etc...
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I view my game as a party. I wouldn't ask anyone to pay to get in to a birthday party, however...
- Most my guests bring a dish to pass. Those that can't cook bring chips, cheese & cracker platters, or store-bought dessert items. It's not required, but the odds of getting invited back is influenced by your contribution (either to the entertainment of the game, or the benefit of the dinner).
- I withhold ~5% of the prize pool. 100% of that goes into the end of the year bonus - the Zombie Poker Classic bonus. The highest finishing player at the Zombie Poker Classic, that attended more than 50% of the games during the year gets the whole bonus. Because I make every game I host, I am guaranteed to be eligible. I'm not guaranteed the bonus, but I will be eligible while others may not be. This has also greatly improved attendance percentages (average was about 42%, now average attendance is close to 80%
- Most guests BYOB, but it is a very social group. A lot of sharing occurs, both from my liquor shelf and from what guests bring. Nobody goes thirsty.
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" Do not "make Chip Change" until all betting in the round is complete. Do not grab other player's blinds/bets, or pull any chip(s) from the pot, while there are players still acting. Relax, keep your bet in front of you, & wait for chip change until after all players have acted. "
https://justpaste.it/167q3
https://justpaste.it/167q3
Unless I'm missing something said earlier, the point of the rulesheet is not just to be read, but to be followed and to be used by the TD/host as concrete support for his/her rulings. While I have no problem having an entertaining set of key rules just to make sure the players know the most important and basic rules, I believe it is very important for TDs/hosts to have a comprehensive set of rules to guide them in their decision-making and to support their decisions when people disagree with them. The rules, in all forms, should be available for the players to read.
As a former baseball umpire, I'd hate to call a game with a humorous set of rules in my back pocket.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
The areas where I use humor are in rules you shouldn't have to "go to".
Example:
The problem I find, is that most people won't stand and read a bunch of rules on the wall (or in your pocket) unless there is something in it for them. A wall full of dry rules are for TD's to resolve an argument (not unlike the umpire carrying a rulebook in his pocket), but nobody is "expected" to read them. If you post something with entertainment value, more people will read it.
If an rule disagreement occurs, TDA or RROP rules on PDF are better than any book or wall posted rules, because you can go directly to the rule with a keyword search.
Example:
- Smoking is only permitted outside
- Smoking is only permitted outside - if you are on fire, go outside.
The problem I find, is that most people won't stand and read a bunch of rules on the wall (or in your pocket) unless there is something in it for them. A wall full of dry rules are for TD's to resolve an argument (not unlike the umpire carrying a rulebook in his pocket), but nobody is "expected" to read them. If you post something with entertainment value, more people will read it.
If an rule disagreement occurs, TDA or RROP rules on PDF are better than any book or wall posted rules, because you can go directly to the rule with a keyword search.
I totally agree with everything you said except two points.
One, I don't see it as a problem that most people won't read the rules. I agree that they won't, but as long as they are available and the TD makes it clear they are the rules that will be used, it's up to the players to read them. If they choose not to read them, they have to take responsibility for not knowing the rules. I don't see how you can play a game without knowing the rules, but people do.
Two, there are instances in which the TDA or RRoP (or other sources) differ or at least provide differently vague rules about the same situation. I think TDs need to make it clear the source for the rules. If the entire set of rules is one rule that says, we will use the TDA only, that's fine; I would say using the TDA (or RRoP) is a comprehensive set of rules, but the TD has to be clear what the rules are and which ones will be followed. The TD can't just have a humorous set of rules and then when a controversy comes up quote the TDA or RRoP without letting players know those are the rules to go by. Players are going to say, "but that's not the rule at (random casino here) and you never said we were using something different." Personally, I started with RRoP and modified it with some rules from the TDA that I thought were written slightly better or were better rules. Like Dave's, my rules are several pages long. That may be overkill, but it sure stops any arguments quickly.
OP
OP
@Gobbs
I want reiterate that I am in the process of putting together a set of rules, mostly based on Roberts. I don't expect most of the players to read them, but I do expect them to abide by them.
My "Ten Commandments" is basically a quick read, and will basically be: respect the game, respect the rules, and, most importantly, respect people. I see no harm in having a little fun with this.
I want reiterate that I am in the process of putting together a set of rules, mostly based on Roberts. I don't expect most of the players to read them, but I do expect them to abide by them.
My "Ten Commandments" is basically a quick read, and will basically be: respect the game, respect the rules, and, most importantly, respect people. I see no harm in having a little fun with this.
No 3-Putts
High Hand
^^ 100%. My last game a couple weeks ago when I posted my "Ten Commandments", everyone read them and joked/commented about them. And they kept referring back to them all night. If it had just been a boring list of rules they might have been read once, maybe, and then forgotten. And I noticed that it almost completely stopped the annoying things like slow rolling, splashing the pot, and talking about possible hands. Now if I could only get them to stop making change until all the action is done....
I have a rule that no fighting is permitted inside the poker room. Fighting is permitted outside but ONLY AFTER all bets have been properly placed with the host according to odds set by the host.
I would add to that: No showing your neighbor what you’re folding, no making faces/sighing when you’re out of the hand if your gin card hits, no theatrically putting your cards aside to later show how you would have won if you had stayed in, or similar actions which give information to those still in the hand or otherwise influence the action once you’re out of it.
Heh... in Texas the maximum legal limit for when you carry is 0.00%. Woe be to those who bust that rule.
Learned this the hard way...
Knowing I have tables with cupholders in the rail..."Thou shall not chew & spit at the table" I swear the dude missed more than he made into his solo cup. That was one gross clean up the next morning. Fun thread to read everyone. Lots of great thoughts/ideas.
Knowing I have tables with cupholders in the rail..."Thou shall not chew & spit at the table" I swear the dude missed more than he made into his solo cup. That was one gross clean up the next morning. Fun thread to read everyone. Lots of great thoughts/ideas.
Ew.
That is not an indoor activity.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
This drives me crazy. No one sees this to be a problem except me.
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