What do you think my opponent had? how would you have played it? (1 Viewer)

cardmenace954

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Hi im new to poker forums but i just had to ask around and get some feedback on this hand. I started playing live 1/2 NL cash games at hardrock casino in hollywood fl about 6 months ago. i have a very solid understanding of the game and i battle in there multiple times a week. i would appreciate some feedback on this hand from my latest session .


i open in the HJ for 10 w JJ, button calls and the UTG raises to 35
this particular player is older but aggressive (barely ever got to showdown but when he did he was sucking out) so i call and so does the button.

flop comes T67 rainbow. UTG takes about 10 seconds to bet 50. i think for a little and call. button folds

turn came 6. again he waits a little then bets 65. i call at this point i put him on an Ax hand (probably AK-AQ)

the river comes an A. he immediately snapped out a 100 chip. i take a while replaying the hand in my head but ultimately i know he has an A so i fold. i talk some shit saying i should’ve shoved on the flop and he was silent then he showed me the A. what do you think he had, AK-AQ or AA??
 
Pre is a little confusing, did utg straddle, did he limp/raise or was he in fact not utg? The rest kinda depends on which of the above is true.
 
UTG just called 2 before you made it 10? All depends on the players style, but generally I've seen older players tend to play bigger hands slower. Could've had AK, AA, KK - something in that range.

Depending on your playing style you could've 4-bet preflop or raised the flop.
 
Strategy threads should pause at each decision point. Some things are "obvious", but turn out to be worthy of discussion.

Stack sizes matter. Same thing with the actions of the rest of the table - please say so even if they all folded

Best I can tell, UTG limp / three bet preflop. Vs typical strangers in a casino that is KK+ Maybe if the player is a bit wilder the range expends to JJ+, AQs+, AKo Always some <small> part of the range is foolish aggression with all sorts of stuff.

It is hard to offer advice preflop and post flop, not knowing the stack sizes.

Preflop villain raises $25 on-top into a $25 pot . Flop bet is $35 into a ~$45 < after rake > pot. Turn is a $65 bet into a $125 pot. River is a $100 bet into a $255 pot.

Villain is telling Hero a story. I have a big pair or perhaps AK. More often a big pair. Given this is a $1/$2 table in a casino, it isn't so likely villain is full of petunias. Not a multi street bluff very often.

Not knowing stack sizes, I'll just assume the effective stack is $200. Hero might well have folded preflop to the limp/three-bet. Paying $25 to set mine offers 3-1 direct odds plus 6x implied odds. Not really good enough odds to play on.

If hero misses the set on the flop, his hand is nothing more than a bluff catcher. Is UTG bluffing? Not very often in my experience. Certainly not enough to stack off with the over pair.

The river ace puts paid to any hope of beating a "big ace" sort of hand making c-bet with ace high. Now Hero can only beat a full bore bluff - a four street air ball bluff. Hero is burned toast. Hero needs a really solid villain read to give him enough hands outside of ABC casino poker ranges to make calling this down profitable.

tldr:
sigh - fold to the three bet preflop. Calling isn't terrible unless Hero knows he isn't going to fold post flop after missing the set.
Flop - fold.
Turn - fold
River - FOLD!

DrStrange

PS If Hero is really villain, that was a big time, ballsy bluff sequence if it was a bluff. Props for the guts, but it likely was wasted on the typical $1/$2 casino table lineup.
 
sigh - fold to the three bet preflop. Calling isn't terrible unless Hero knows he isn't going to fold post flop after missing the set.
Flop - fold.
Turn - fold
Don't ever do any of these things. Sorry I know you are well respected @DrStrange and I'm sure you are lovely to have at any home game but you play wayyy to tight to be profitable in any games that I've ever seen. I would not be giving out advice to fold JJ pre and certainly not to fold it on a Txx flop (or turn to that small turn sizing).
i have a very solid understanding of the game
Similarly, and please don't take this the wrong way, it is only meant as critical feedback in order for you to improve, but the way that you have relayed this hand history lets me know that you probably don't have as solid an understanding of the game as you think you have. This is totally fine, we all have a lot to work on when it comes to poker (myself very much included), but knowing your own level of understanding is key to the overall learning process.

As @DrStrange points out, there is a lot of information that is vital to the hand that you leave out here, and moving forward I would encourage you to make sure to include it in any hand histories because without things like stack depth and whether or not the UTG player limp/raised or straddled or raised small UTG, without that kind of information it is hard to really weigh in.

As played... and has relayed in the description above... assuming we are fairly deep stacked, this would be my quick thoughts on the hand:

1. Preflop: ompletely standard. Good raise with JJ (if UTG had limped then I personally prefer a slightly larger raise with JJ, at least $12 but probably closer to $15), and we are *never* folding JJ in position, especially to a player you have labeled as "aggressive" and who has been seen "sucking out" a lot. Just never fold please lol.

2. Flop: This is where stack sizing really matters. There are stack depths (shallower) where we can raise flops here because we just aren't folding and we don't mind getting the AK/AQs of the world to fold. But assuming we are deeper, this is always just a call. Never fold and really we shouldn't be raising very often. We keep our opponents range wide (keeping his bluffs in) and we don't bloat the pot vs the occasional overpairs. So call is totally standard here. Again folding is a huge mistake.

3. Turn: Now stack sizes really come into play because we have a decent amount of money in the middle and when villain bets $65 (which actually feels pretty weak to me, given that there is now $170 in the middle and he should be wanting to go bigger with his overpairs vs hands like AT/KTJTs and of course hands like the one you have JJ, QQ, maybe even 99 that has decent equity in position if he does have the overpair. So my read is that the $65 is weak, and depending on stack sizes (again so important here!), we could easily shove turn and be fine with getting coolered vs the big pairs (hey it happens!). Still, assuming we are deep here, I like a just call on the turn overall. I think that is generally still considered the standard play (we would want to do the same with our strongest hands right? Say we had TT or 76s or 66 or 98s - we want to just call here also right? Leave villains bluffs in and underrep our own hands. We would love for villain to have a hand like AK in that case or even AA/KK/QQ right? We are still in position on the river to get more money in.

4. River: This is now a gross spot because unlike the turn we are no longer beating very many hands. Sure the villain could have been bluffing three streets but given the limp/raise preflop, this does seem like a sigh fold to me most of the time. If the player if truly aggressive enough, I don't think a call is terrible, it because we are getting good odds, but yeah we are barely beating anything so a fold is totally fine.

We don't want to be results oriented right so in this case it does seem like villain had some kind of big ace that got there on the river and knowing that we can beat ourselves up for not doing things differently but we want to stay away from that. Keep focusing on playing every street well with the information that we have available, and listen, at the end of the day poker is about making decisions when we are uncertain about the outcome. That's both part of the fun and part of the difficulty.

Get those stack depths down and understand how that might impact each of your decision points moving forward. Good luck to you!
 
Don't ever do any of these things. Sorry I know you are well respected @DrStrange and I'm sure you are lovely to have at any home game but you play wayyy to tight to be profitable in any games that I've ever seen. I would not be giving out advice to fold JJ pre and certainly not to fold it on a Txx flop (or turn to that small turn sizing).

Similarly, and please don't take this the wrong way, it is only meant as critical feedback in order for you to improve, but the way that you have relayed this hand history lets me know that you probably don't have as solid an understanding of the game as you think you have. This is totally fine, we all have a lot to work on when it comes to poker (myself very much included), but knowing your own level of understanding is key to the overall learning process.

As @DrStrange points out, there is a lot of information that is vital to the hand that you leave out here, and moving forward I would encourage you to make sure to include it in any hand histories because without things like stack depth and whether or not the UTG player limp/raised or straddled or raised small UTG, without that kind of information it is hard to really weigh in.

As played... and has relayed in the description above... assuming we are fairly deep stacked, this would be my quick thoughts on the hand:

1. Preflop: ompletely standard. Good raise with JJ (if UTG had limped then I personally prefer a slightly larger raise with JJ, at least $12 but probably closer to $15), and we are *never* folding JJ in position, especially to a player you have labeled as "aggressive" and who has been seen "sucking out" a lot. Just never fold please lol.

2. Flop: This is where stack sizing really matters. There are stack depths (shallower) where we can raise flops here because we just aren't folding and we don't mind getting the AK/AQs of the world to fold. But assuming we are deeper, this is always just a call. Never fold and really we shouldn't be raising very often. We keep our opponents range wide (keeping his bluffs in) and we don't bloat the pot vs the occasional overpairs. So call is totally standard here. Again folding is a huge mistake.

3. Turn: Now stack sizes really come into play because we have a decent amount of money in the middle and when villain bets $65 (which actually feels pretty weak to me, given that there is now $170 in the middle and he should be wanting to go bigger with his overpairs vs hands like AT/KTJTs and of course hands like the one you have JJ, QQ, maybe even 99 that has decent equity in position if he does have the overpair. So my read is that the $65 is weak, and depending on stack sizes (again so important here!), we could easily shove turn and be fine with getting coolered vs the big pairs (hey it happens!). Still, assuming we are deep here, I like a just call on the turn overall. I think that is generally still considered the standard play (we would want to do the same with our strongest hands right? Say we had TT or 76s or 66 or 98s - we want to just call here also right? Leave villains bluffs in and underrep our own hands. We would love for villain to have a hand like AK in that case or even AA/KK/QQ right? We are still in position on the river to get more money in.

4. River: This is now a gross spot because unlike the turn we are no longer beating very many hands. Sure the villain could have been bluffing three streets but given the limp/raise preflop, this does seem like a sigh fold to me most of the time. If the player if truly aggressive enough, I don't think a call is terrible, it because we are getting good odds, but yeah we are barely beating anything so a fold is totally fine.

We don't want to be results oriented right so in this case it does seem like villain had some kind of big ace that got there on the river and knowing that we can beat ourselves up for not doing things differently but we want to stay away from that. Keep focusing on playing every street well with the information that we have available, and listen, at the end of the day poker is about making decisions when we are uncertain about the outcome. That's both part of the fun and part of the difficulty.

Get those stack depths down and understand how that might impact each of your decision points moving forward. Good luck to you!
i appreciate both feedbacks, thank you for having the time to read and respond. looking forward to learning more and improving everyday.
 
I don't have a great understanding to poker strategy that's why I suck. Play when you have it, fold when you don't, bluff if you can, but not too much. If you can call you should raise.
 
Don't ever do any of these things. Sorry I know you are well respected @DrStrange and I'm sure you are lovely to have at any home game but you play wayyy to tight to be profitable in any games that I've ever seen. I would not be giving out advice to fold JJ pre and certainly not to fold it on a Txx flop (or turn to that small turn sizing).

With this being a 1/2 cash casino table, can't Hero find better situations to play?

If Villan is sucking out a lot, are aggressive, and has (we assume) a loose preflop range, wouldn't it make more sense to start flatting them preflop with our pocket pairs, broadways, suited Aces, and suited connectors, wait till we hit and crush them post-flop when they stack off to us?

Reopening betting to an aggressive player that has limped from UTG then calling a raise just feels a little thin here compared to what Hero could be getting. Love to hear thoughts on it though.
 
With this being a 1/2 cash casino table, can't Hero find better situations to play?
No. Having an overpair to the board against a splashy aggressive player in position is a great spot. We should be hoping for spots like these all day every day. If you are looking for “better situations” than this, it means you are playing too tight and/or are too risk adverse to be profitable in this game.
If Villan is sucking out a lot, are aggressive, and has (we assume) a loose preflop range, wouldn't it make more sense to start flatting them preflop with our pocket pairs, broadways, suited Aces, and suited connectors, wait till we hit and crush them post-flop when they stack off to us?
The fact that someone has gotten lucky in the past (“sucking out a lot”) is never a reason to change strategies. This fact has no impact on our game. We want to be 3betting villain here when we have big hands *every time* exactly because he is calling looser. We want to build pots with better hands when we are in position, this is more or less the goal of a profitable cash game player.
compared to what Hero could be getting.
This is an unfortunate myth, very prevalent among low stakes players. Waiting for “a better spot” is an idea that assumes that better spots will always arrive. They will not. You can go an entire session just playing tough spot after tough spot (I’m sure you’ve experienced this before yourself). We don’t want to wait for ideal situations, we want to press our EV and punish loose players when we have large pocket pairs.

Hope that’s helpful.
 
OP got what they need and won the WSOP.
Schitts Creek Comedy GIF by CBC
 

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