What constitutes clay chips? (1 Viewer)

[coolguy101]

I was wondering as to what exactly makes a “clay chip?” How does one know what is clay, and what is not? My idea of something made of clay would be akin to one of those clay flower pots - coarse, and made of a stone like material.

I recently got sample chips Majestic snd Pharaoh’s. Both are listed as “clay” chips, and from my reading of the forum, are called China clays. Fit, finish, and feel are awesome.

I’ve never paid too much attention to chips over the years, however I did notice that vegas casino chips seemed to harder and lighter, and card club casinos tended to have heavier soft plastic type chips.

Now that I’m on the hunt for a new chip set, I like to give chips the “fingernail test;” Can I gouge the edge of a chip by pressing on it with my fingernail?

I was able to do so for both the Majestic and Pharaoh’s. For comparison, I happen to have a couple of chips from local casinos that I also tried it on. For the Hawaiian Gardens $2 chip, I could not do anything at all to it with my fingernail. The chip is well used and worn, and has some damage on it already, but I couldn’t even make that damage worse with my nail.

The San Manuel Indian Casino $1 chip appears to be plastic and I dented the edge with my nail pretty easily.

So other than material composition, what should be expected for performance and durability?

Here are the chip weights:

Majestic: 9.3 grams
Pharaoh’s: 9.3 grams
Hawaiian Gardens Casino: 8.8 grams
San Manuel Casino: 9.0 grams

 

[WhiteMamba1646]

HG - RHC Paulson (clay)
San Manuel - RHC Paulson (clay)

you can tell by the mold. RHC - Reverse Hat and Cane

 

[Jeevansluck]

I was wondering as to what exactly makes a “clay chip?” How does one know what is clay, and what is not? My idea of something made of clay would be akin to one of those clay flower pots - coarse, and made of a stone like material.

I recently got sample chips Majestic snd Pharaoh’s. Both are listed as “clay” chips, and from my reading of the forum, are called China clays. Fit, finish, and feel are awesome.

I’ve never paid too much attention to chips over the years, however I did notice that vegas casino chips seemed to harder and lighter, and card club casinos tended to have heavier soft plastic type chips.

Now that I’m on the hunt for a new chip set, I like to give chips the “fingernail test;” Can I gouge the edge of a chip by pressing on it with my fingernail?

I was able to do so for both the Majestic and Pharaoh’s. For comparison, I happen to have a couple of chips from local casinos that I also tried it on. For the Hawaiian Gardens $2 chip, I could not do anything at all to it with my fingernail. The chip is well used and worn, and has some damage on it already, but I couldn’t even make that damage worse with my nail.

The San Manuel Indian Casino $1 chip appears to be plastic and I dented the edge with my nail pretty easily.

So other than material composition, what should be expected for performance and durability?

Here are the chip weights:

Majestic: 9.3 grams
Pharaoh’s: 9.3 grams
Hawaiian Gardens Casino: 8.8 grams
San Manuel Casino: 9.0 grams

Welcome to this site! I can't profess to answer your very pertinent questions. I'm also a noob and have much to learn with respect to chip composition etc

I find it very amusing you are trying to gouge the chips to see. Very cool! I've not thought to do that, but kind of neat.

Anyways, you will find many users who can answer your questions. Welcome aboard!

 

[partypoker]

I suggest you get on the list for the sample set floating around the US and CAN. That set helped me a make a decision about what chip set i wanted to pursue. Well that and the sale coming up from the chiproom

 

[BearMetal]

I find it interesting you thought that the RHC was plastic

I've certainly noticed that different colors for Paulson chips (clay) (RHC/THC/etc) have different "hardness" and "feels", but I don't think I'd ever think they were so hard they were plastic. Real plastic chips like ceramics or Matsuis or Sunflys will most likely break blenders, while Paulsons will not and will lose that fight.

As far as clay composition goes, I'm definitely no expert. But Paulson's formula is VERY different from that of China Clays. I look at the oil absorption test. My CCs drink up oil while Paulsons will take just a little before they are saturated and have an oily feel.

 

[Highli99]

Paulson = compression clay
CPC/ASM = compression clay
BCC = compression clay
TRK = compression clay

Everything else = not compression clay

China clays like the majestics are some kind of composition but not compression clay.

Ceramic are ceramic

dice chips and the like are injected plastic and often weighted with metal slugs. Most are terrible but very nice High end plastics exist and are made by Matsui, GPI, or Abiatti.

 

[RichMahogany]

Someone back on CT broke down some chips into their chemical compositions or something similar.

I believe @BGinGA has that info somewhere

 

[Ben8257]

There is one man with the best answer... @BGinGA! But for the record there aren't any true clay chips made anymore. They are all a composite of clay, plastic, Resin and sometimes many other materials added for weight such as brass flake in the CPC chips. Welcome to the forum and definitely an awesome starting out question sir!

Fellow Chipper Ben

 

[buzzmonkey]

I believe Ceramic chips are still plastic, but not ABS plastic. They're called ceramic because they sound and feel more like ceramic than they do like plastic.

 

[coolguy101]

the San Manuel chip has a soft, plastic feel to it. That’s why I thought it was.

I’ve usually never been able to dent a Vegas casino chip. But I’ve dented card room chips that definitely feel like plastic. I got these two 13.5 gram chip samples in the pics below that dented quite nicely.

I don’t know what any of that means. Again, what is clay, and what are the expectations?

I did sign up to receive the forum sample pack. Pretty excited about that

 

[Blaster]

The "clay" in real compression clay chips simply refers to the consistency of the raw composite material used to create the chips, generally a clay-like mixture of a plastic binder base , with added minerals, metals, and or additives for color, weight etc...
While it seems every modern chip sold has claimed to be "clay",. Even the slippery plastic coated metal slugs, Real clay chips, as mentioned earlier, are considered to be True compression molded chips, currently made only by CPC and Paulson/GPI , and older chips from TRK BCC, and (ASM and Burt Co.. now CPC)..

 

[coolguy101]

That was helpful, thank you.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I was wondering as to what exactly makes a “clay chip?” How does one know what is clay, and what is not? My idea of something made of clay would be akin to one of those clay flower pots - coarse, and made of a stone like material.

I recently got sample chips Majestic snd Pharaoh’s. Both are listed as “clay” chips, and from my reading of the forum, are called China clays. Fit, finish, and feel are awesome.

I’ve never paid too much attention to chips over the years, however I did notice that vegas casino chips seemed to harder and lighter, and card club casinos tended to have heavier soft plastic type chips.

Now that I’m on the hunt for a new chip set, I like to give chips the “fingernail test;” Can I gouge the edge of a chip by pressing on it with my fingernail?

I was able to do so for both the Majestic and Pharaoh’s. For comparison, I happen to have a couple of chips from local casinos that I also tried it on. For the Hawaiian Gardens $2 chip, I could not do anything at all to it with my fingernail. The chip is well used and worn, and has some damage on it already, but I couldn’t even make that damage worse with my nail.

The San Manuel Indian Casino $1 chip appears to be plastic and I dented the edge with my nail pretty easily.

So other than material composition, what should be expected for performance and durability?

Here are the chip weights:

Majestic: 9.3 grams
Pharaoh’s: 9.3 grams
Hawaiian Gardens Casino: 8.8 grams
San Manuel Casino: 9.0 grams

Clay is a very nebulous term. In reality, no chip is 100% clay - it would just break apart.

Given that tidbit, how much clay is required to be called "clay"? It would require a mass spectrometer to tell, and even then it wouldn't say "clay". It would read the base elements of clay; silica, alumina and/or magnesia - many of which could easily be added to a chip to be called "clay". Trust me, many sellers call chips clay because they contain 2 of these elements.

So if you care, you need to look at it from an afficinado's perspective. Around here, only GPI and CPC currently produce what we call clay. CPC will produce for the home market, and GPI will produce BCC chips for the home market, but are very limited. China clay is an approximation, but unmistakably different, so we define it by the region of production, which is obviously China. Other clay chips exist, but are no longer manufactured (TRK for example).

 

[CdnBeerLover]

GPI will produce BCC chips for the home market, but are very limited.

If you are referring to the chips used to create the Elites and the PCF tournament chips, I believe they are no longer being offered. As far as I can tell, GPI will not create chips at all for the home market.

 

[slurpeee]

I was wondering as to what exactly makes a “clay chip?” How does one know what is clay, and what is not? My idea of something made of clay would be akin to one of those clay flower pots - coarse, and made of a stone like material.

I recently got sample chips Majestic snd Pharaoh’s. Both are listed as “clay” chips, and from my reading of the forum, are called China clays. Fit, finish, and feel are awesome.

I’ve never paid too much attention to chips over the years, however I did notice that vegas casino chips seemed to harder and lighter, and card club casinos tended to have heavier soft plastic type chips.

Now that I’m on the hunt for a new chip set, I like to give chips the “fingernail test;” Can I gouge the edge of a chip by pressing on it with my fingernail?

I was able to do so for both the Majestic and Pharaoh’s. For comparison, I happen to have a couple of chips from local casinos that I also tried it on. For the Hawaiian Gardens $2 chip, I could not do anything at all to it with my fingernail. The chip is well used and worn, and has some damage on it already, but I couldn’t even make that damage worse with my nail.

The San Manuel Indian Casino $1 chip appears to be plastic and I dented the edge with my nail pretty easily.

So other than material composition, what should be expected for performance and durability?

Here are the chip weights:

Majestic: 9.3 grams
Pharaoh’s: 9.3 grams
Hawaiian Gardens Casino: 8.8 grams
San Manuel Casino: 9.0 grams

The questions you ask and interest your showing tells me your about to to fall into a deep, dark, long, expensive rabbit-hole of a hobby. The moral side of me feels almost like I should encourage you to turn around and walk away.

These type questions are akin to asking a forum of junkies: "So tell me about these heroin rushes again? What are the different types of places you can inject it? What are the best ways to cook it up? I know John Coltrane played awesome when he took it, so what kind was he using? Can I get some cheap heroin from China?, etc"

Good luck. And going forward, may God have mercy on your wallet.

 

[coolguy101]

I went down the chip road about 15 years ago. I actually got some paulsons James Bond chips, but didn’t like the feel and threw them away because I didn’t understand what they were and that they had to be broken it. It was only 20 pieces, but I wish I had them back. I ended up with a crappy set off of eBay because I liked the feel more. But they say in the closet for years, and now that I got my craps table I pulled them out and realized that they just won’t do. Yup, I’m doomed.

 

[Coyote]

If I remember well, all chips today are to a certain degree plastic.
Fullly plastic (from slugged cheapos to high-end plastics) or basically plastic ("ceramics" and "china clay chips", though the two differ in the method of production) or somewhat plastic with clay and metal, the latter being formerly lead and now brass or aluminum etc ("clay").
This, pretty roughly.
Accurate details to be offered by @BGinGA only.

 

[allforcharity]

Common usage on the Forum:

"Clay chips" = compression mold chips with "traditional" clay formulas (trade secrets)
Paulson, CPC, ASM, BCC, TRK all count.

Everything else is "not clay". Doesn't mean they are bad. Just "not clay".

 

[upNdown]

So other than material composition, what should be expected for performance and durability?

I think maybe we want to be more concerned with HOW the chips are manufactured, than the materials they're manufactured from.
Cheap chips usually aren't very flat, so they don't stack well. And stacking is about the most important thing that poker chips have to do.
I like the clay feel of “real” Paulson clay chips more than the feel of China clay chips, but the real difference is the quality. We’ve seen China clay chips that weren’t perfectly circular, so they didn’t sit in a rack correctly. We’ve seen China clay chips where one color is thicker than the other, so 20 chips of reds might stack to the same height as 21 chips of green.
With Paulsons I know that 20 chips will always stack to 66.7mm, regardless of color or year of manufacture. I also know that the labels are pressed into the clay as part of the manufacturing process, so they are actually part of the chip that won’t come off. Unlike the stickers on China clay.
The material is important. But there’s more important stuff than that.

 

[mtl mile end]

IMHO

I believe that "Clay" and "Ceramic" are merely style references.

Clay refers to chips that are in the style of compression molded "clay" chips like chips made by Borland, ASM, TRK, Paulson, BCC, and the like. These chips may have little to no actual clay in their formula. Under this definition, Dice chips are "Clay" chips because they are a copy of the style even though they are made of injection molded plastic (with a giant metal slug inside). As well, "China Clays" are injection molded chips in the style of clay chips.

In a similar way, "Ceramic" chips are not made of ceramic, but they are described by that style moniker.

This is why on a poker chip forum, people say "real clay", or "compressed clay" to describe chips made by compression of a clay-like composite even though there is precious little clay in them (they do melt in the oven, after all). While on a retail site selling plastic sluggos, the chips are described as "clay composite" as they are in the style of clay chips, but are made of plastic and possibly contain a metal slug.

 

[CdnBeerLover]

We’ve seen China clay chips where one color is thicker than the other, so 20 chips of reds might stack to the same height as 21 chips of green.

To be fair, there are thickness variations for brand new CPC's, depending on the mold. That issue is not limited to China clays.

 

[coolguy101]

So I’m starting to come to the conclusion that I’m going to need to buy more than one set of chips....

 

[Poker Zombie]

If you are referring to the chips used to create the Elites and the PCF tournament chips, I believe they are no longer being offered. As far as I can tell, GPI will not create chips at all for the home market.

Well, that was short-lived then.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I think maybe we want to be more concerned with HOW the chips are manufactured, than the materials they're manufactured from.
Cheap chips usually aren't very flat, so they don't stack well. And stacking is about the most important thing that poker chips have to do.
I like the clay feel of “real” Paulson clay chips more than the feel of China clay chips, but the real difference is the quality. We’ve seen China clay chips that weren’t perfectly circular, so they didn’t sit in a rack correctly. We’ve seen China clay chips where one color is thicker than the other, so 20 chips of reds might stack to the same height as 21 chips of green.
With Paulsons I know that 20 chips will always stack to 66.7mm, regardless of color or year of manufacture. I also know that the labels are pressed into the clay as part of the manufacturing process, so they are actually part of the chip that won’t come off. Unlike the stickers on China clay.
The material is important. But there’s more important stuff than that.

Dice chips are very flat. Probably the most uniform chip known to man. CPC has "a lot" of variation, perceptible in stacks of 20 chips. Paulsons also have a ton of variance, depending on how worn the chip is. I'm not sure you will find a lower quality chip than clay chips from BCC... no, the ASM vegas chips were worse - and also clay.

Bud Jones are fantastic chips. They are uniform and very high quality. No variance in thickness or diameter. Feel great too, but that one is subjective. They are however, plastic.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I was wondering as to what exactly makes a “clay chip?” How does one know what is clay, and what is not? My idea of something made of clay would be akin to one of those clay flower pots - coarse, and made of a stone like material.

I recently got sample chips Majestic snd Pharaoh’s. Both are listed as “clay” chips, and from my reading of the forum, are called China clays. Fit, finish, and feel are awesome.

I’ve never paid too much attention to chips over the years, however I did notice that vegas casino chips seemed to harder and lighter, and card club casinos tended to have heavier soft plastic type chips.

The terms Clay, Ceramic, China Clay, and Plastic as used by chip aficionados are not descriptions; they are labels.

Clay chips are not made of clay. Ceramic chips are not made of ceramic. China clays are not made of clay; they're also not made of China (aka porcelain), although they are made in China. All chips are made of plastic, and have been ever since they stopped being made of ivory, bone, wood, and paper. Most plastic materials are a mix of several types of materials (i.e. they are "composites"); the very first clay chips were a mix of resins (natural plastics) with fillers such as wood dust and minerals (hence "clays"). Modern clay chips like Paulsons contain some amount of minerals but are mostly plastic; the formulas vary between manufacturers and are trade secrets.

What we call "clay chips" refers not to their composition but to their history. They're chips made by the same few companies that first made these types of chips (or their successor companies), using the same types of manufacturing processes and the same types of materials. The companies are the US Playing Card Company, the Portland Billiard Ball Company, the Burt Company, T.R. King and Company, the Paul-Son Dice and Card Company, Atlantic Standard Molding, the Blue Chip Company, Classic Poker Chips, and Gaming Partners Incorporated. The manufacturing process is compression molding (plus various finishing steps), and the types of materials are plastic composites with a high mineral content (or so we presume, since the formulas are secrets). These chips feel like they're made out of clay, sort-of.

Ceramics are made of a plastic composite formulated to be much harder than Paulsons etc. Accordingly, they feel like they're made out of ceramic, sort-of. The main feature of ceramics is that the material they're made out of can be printed on using dye sublimation techniques; accordingly, they have full-color graphics printed directly on their faces and rolling edges. By contrast, clay chips can't be printed on using typical printing processes; their graphic designs are either printed on a laminated paper insert that is pressed into the chip during the compression molding (thus becoming an "inlay"), or they're printed with a single-color foil impression melted into the chip surface (aka a hotstamp).

"Plastics" broadly refers, more or less, to everything else. Low-end consumer chips like dice chips are made out of cheap plastic using low-cost injection molding with limited finishing and limited quality assurance. High-end casino chips like Bud Jones and Matsui use different, higher-quality plastic, use more complicated injection molds, and have better finishing and quality assurance; all of this makes them more attractive and more expensive than dice chips.

"China Clays" refers to a particular type of plastic chip. Like all plastic chips that aren't "clays", they're injection molded rather than compression molded. But unlike dice chips or Bud Jones plastics, they were formulated and manufactured to resemble clays as much as possible and to appeal to the home market chip enthusiasts who wanted high-quality chips like casino clays but had been left behind when the major clay manufacturers stopped producing chips for the home market. So they're kind of like clays, but they aren't clays. And since they were made in China (like almost everything these days), China Clays became their name.

Just how closely the China Clays do in fact resemble the casino clays is a matter of opinion, and varies between the different types of China Clays.

So other than material composition, what should be expected for performance and durability?

I'll let others with more experience answer that, but I'll note that people often remark that plastic chips in general and ceramic chips in particular are very durable, whereas clay chips are notoriously fragile around the edges; clays get "flea bites" and small chips from seeing a lot of play, and end up with worn and rounded edges ("bicycle tires") after heavy use in casinos.

Hope this helps!

 

[Coyote]

Yeah, I forgot to mention, as an answer to the OP's question about durability, that if he wants care-free chips, indifferent to scorching heat, freezing cold, method of cleaning or falling on a hard floor etc, the only way to go is full plastics, be it low-end trash or high-end respectable firms (Matsui, Abbiatti, Bud Jones). NOT "clay" or "ceramic".

 

[CrazyEddie]

So I’m starting to come to the conclusion that I’m going to need to buy more than one set of chips....

Welcome to the forum!

 

[dennis63]

Several years ago, before Classic, when the company was called ASM in Portland, their website said their chips contained about "30 percent" actual clay in the recipe. The rest of the material is for color, binding and weight. (So clay, powdered dyes, binding agents and brass powder.)

Since Classic uses the old ASM formula (which hasn't changed in over 100 years), I would guess their chips still contain some real clay. I've watched the process in person, and it sure smells like clay.

 

[CrazyEddie]

The rest of the material is for color, binding and weight. (So clay, powdered dyes, binding agents and brass powder.)

"Binding agents" is a nice way to say "plastic" without having to say "plastic". Sort of like how Glock says their guns are made out of "composite". Or like how McDonalds has a Q-ing Oven. The Q stands for Quality, and god help you if you ever refer to it as a microwave.

 

[David Spragg]

The terms Clay, Ceramic, China Clay, and Plastic as used by chip aficionados are not descriptions; they are labels.

Clay chips are not made of clay. Ceramic chips are not made of ceramic. China clays are not made of clay; they're also not made of China (aka porcelain), although they are made in China. All chips are made of plastic, and have been ever since they stopped being made of ivory, bone, wood, and paper. Most plastic materials are a mix of several types of materials (i.e. they are "composites"); the very first clay chips were a mix of resins (natural plastics) with fillers such as wood dust and minerals (hence "clays"). Modern clay chips like Paulsons contain some amount of minerals but are mostly plastic; the formulas vary between manufacturers and are trade secrets.

What we call "clay chips" refers not to their composition but to their history. They're chips made by the same few companies that first made these types of chips (or their successor companies), using the same types of manufacturing processes and the same types of materials. The companies are the US Playing Card Company, the Portland Billiard Ball Company, the Burt Company, T.R. King and Company, the Paul-Son Dice and Card Company, Atlantic Standard Molding, the Blue Chip Company, Classic Poker Chips, and Gaming Partners Incorporated. The manufacturing process is compression molding (plus various finishing steps), and the types of materials are plastic composites with a high mineral content (or so we presume, since the formulas are secrets). These chips feel like they're made out of clay, sort-of.

Ceramics are made of a plastic composite formulated to be much harder than Paulsons etc. Accordingly, they feel like they're made out of ceramic, sort-of. The main feature of ceramics is that the material they're made out of can be printed on using dye sublimation techniques; accordingly, they have full-color graphics printed directly on their faces and rolling edges. By contrast, clay chips can't be printed on using typical printing processes; their graphic designs are either printed on a laminated paper insert that is pressed into the chip during the compression molding (thus becoming an "inlay"), or they're printed with a single-color foil impression melted into the chip surface (aka a hotstamp).

"Plastics" broadly refers, more or less, to everything else. Low-end consumer chips like dice chips are made out of cheap plastic using low-cost injection molding with limited finishing and limited quality assurance. High-end casino chips like Bud Jones and Matsui use different, higher-quality plastic, use more complicated injection molds, and have better finishing and quality assurance; all of this makes them more attractive and more expensive than dice chips.

"China Clays" refers to a particular type of plastic chip. Like all plastic chips that aren't "clays", they're injection molded rather than compression molded. But unlike dice chips or Bud Jones plastics, they were formulated and manufactured to resemble clays as much as possible and to appeal to the home market chip enthusiasts who wanted high-quality chips like casino clays but had been left behind when the major clay manufacturers stopped producing chips for the home market. So they're kind of like clays, but they aren't clays. And since they were made in China (like almost everything these days), China Clays became their name.

Just how closely the China Clays do in fact resemble the casino clays is a matter of opinion, and varies between the different types of China Clays.



I'll let others with more experience answer that, but I'll note that people often remark that plastic chips in general and ceramic chips in particular are very durable, whereas clay chips are notoriously fragile around the edges; clays get "flea bites" and small chips from seeing a lot of play, and end up with worn and rounded edges ("bicycle tires") after heavy use in casinos.

Hope this helps!

Well it's surprising that I've only just now seen this post 3.5 years on and it needs considerable correction.

Clay chips are not made of clay

All chips are made of plastic

Plastic content of CPC chips is 0%. Just to clarify, that is zero.
Actual clay content is not 30% as stated somewhere else in this thread. The old CT post stated that NON clay content is about 30%. it's actually closer to 40%.
Try this
Clay - 60%
Other naturally occurring minerals/ingredients - 30 to 38%
Other ingredients (including the brass although you could argue that is mineral) 2 to 10%.

For info, Paulson now is around 50/50 clay & minerals/plastic
TRK was around 70/30