Weird Ruling... (1 Viewer)

[Trihonda]

I am playing 2/5 NL in our Punta Cana resort. They have two tables of NLHE running.

The players. I'm sitting on a few hundred chips in the button, 8 handed. a surgeon to my left (SB) has a big stack (and is pretty new). A Russian gangster (MP) is short stacked.

The table limps (including the gangster) for $5. I look down at AJ and bump it to $20. Surgeon and Gangster both call. Flop is Jxx. Surgeon checks and gangster bets $20, he has $4 behind (this is important). The gangster says he wants to bet his last $4, but it's a string bet and the dealer will not allow it. I tell the guy I'll help help him out and raise to $40. The Surgeon calls. And the dealer won't allow the gangsters $4 come into the pot. She claims the $4 is not in play.

I'm not one for making scenes in casino poker Rooms. Casinos each have their own rules (and specially in foreign countries), and there's a language barrier. I ask the dealer how the gangster can continue in the hand if he's not allowed to put in his remaining chips. She repeats that min bet is $5 and since he doesn't have $5, the $4 can't play. ?????? The entire table is confused. There are a number of better players here tonight, who all concur with my reasoning.

I drop the subject and allow the hand to play out. Involves me betting the side pot on the river (surgeon folds). Gangster rolls over KK and takes the main pot.

After the hand I call over the "floor" to get clarification for future hands. She listens to the dealer (in Spanish) and my reasoning, and shrugs without really clarifying anything. Lol.

My logic is that someone could argue he didn't risk the same as me (to continue) so he didn't really call my flop raise and should have his hand mucked. If He had TT and lost, I'd feel like he got to showdown without risking the same as me or the surgeon.

In reality, he wanted to bet his $4 and had the better hand, so in the end, he deserved to win the main pot. I wasn't arguing any such notion to the floor, just trying to get clarification to their $4 rule.

What the hell? Is this normal in ANY casino you know of?

 

[jbutler]

Apart from paying the small blind, $1s don't play in lots of red chip games.

 

[bentax1978]

I've played in several rooms where $1 chips don't play in a 2/5 game when it comes to an all-in (and post flop betting).

 

[Trihonda]

Apart from paying the small blind, $1s don't play in lots of red chip games.

Ah, Ok. I'm a Noob... THAT actually makes more sense when put that way. When you're used to playing for quarters, I think those $1 chips matter more.

#bluechipsmatter.

 

[links_slayer]

insta-ban

 

[gopherblue]

I think it depends on what the dealer said (and what the actual rule is at that casino). If she said the min bet was $5, his chips play. If she said that $1s don't play, then the $4 doesn't play.

If the former, if he had said "I raise all in" instead of betting $20, how much would his bet be?

In my view, the min bet rule applies to the first bet--it must be at least $5. But after that, it can be whatever. He could've bet $21, if he wanted. So long as his bet was >$5. Or he could've bet $5, and you could've raised to $24.

Under that scenario, your $40 bet put him all in, and he'd need to call. But since the dealer wouldn't let him, he's still all in. But if $1s don't play in betting rounds, then jack is correct.

 

[bentax1978]

If he had said "I raise all in" instead of betting $20, how much would his bet be?

In places where the ones don't play, if you have $24 and go all-in, the bet is $20. In other words, all bets (all-in or not) have to be in $5 increments.

But I've played 2/5 in other places where ones play throughout the hand and the bet would have been $24. Just depends on the casino/house rules.

 

[rowlin]

Did the floor person fail to explain what jb and bentax posted?

 

[Rhodeman77]

At the $1/2 $5 bring in PLO game here at the Jack bets are only $5 increments. The only time odd $1's come into play is during an all in. But I have seen times too where the player that goes all in doesn't push the odd $1's in and nobody says anything.

The $2/5 and up plays the same way.

 

[courage]

Yeah, depends on the house rules and in a lot of places or certain games $1s don't play cuz

 

[bergs]

I've never seen this in a pot limit or no limit game. I've been in limit games where the small bet was $5 and I had $9 and tried to raise and they told me it was a call and to keep my $4.

 

[redwine]

Just to be clear, if he had say 5 $1 chips remaining, that would be allowed to play since it is a multiple of $5, in my experience.

 

[bentax1978]

Just to be clear, if he had say 5 $1 chips remaining, that would be allowed to play since it is a multiple of $5, in my experience.

Correct. At places with this rule, if you had 12 x $1 chips left, you would be able to bet/call $10 of them.

 

[ChaosRock]

I've seen both ways also...

Now, what puzzles me is the thinking the guy's hand should have been mucked... That's LOL...

Either the fractional to the $5s can play and he puts his last $4 in, or the fractionals can't play and he is already all in...

Can't understand why you think his hand should have been mucked...

 

[courage]

While we're at it, can we get confirmation on player ID for surgeon and Russian gangster? Were they reg'd in Bravo that way (unlikely in use), or did they just announce occupation to table?

 

[upNdown]

Apart from paying the small blind, $1s don't play in lots of red chip games.

I appreciate this explanation, because I never would have known that, but it seems pretty dumb to me. You should be able to call all in if you have chips in front of you.

 

[Blaster]

It seems from the OP, that the dealer didn't allow the extra 4 chips "because it was a string bet" ....
Which seems odd and does not really fit exactly with the "odd $1's play/don't play" rules ...
@Trihonda - Was there any "odd # " bets you remember before/after that particular hand?

 

[jbutler]

I appreciate this explanation, because I never would have known that, but it seems pretty dumb to me. You should be able to call all in if you have chips in front of you.

It's most common in pot limit games because it makes it a giant pain in the ass on subsequent betting streets when someone wants to bet pot and only has red chips and someone wants to call, but also only has red chips.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Now, what puzzles me is the thinking the guy's hand should have been mucked... That's LOL...

Sorry, @Trihonda , but ^^this^^.

 

[Mental Nomad]

It seems from the OP, that the dealer didn't allow the extra 4 chips "because it was a string bet" ....

It's certain the dealer didn't allow it; hero may have been assuming why, and assumed the wrong reason (amounts < $5 don't play, versus string bet rule.)

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Only increments of $5 play at Live! as well. I was confused the first time I saw it too, but it is what it is.

 

[Trihonda]

$1's did play in other betting rounds. I witnessed and made numerous bets with blue $1 chips. $16, $22, etc... these bets were always processed at face value with no balking by the dealers. Other "all in" moves involved the $1 chips.

Gangster never did announce all in, just tried to string bet his last $4. According to the dealer, Once he bet his $20 and left $4 back, these $4 were now ratholed. I couldn't get at them, even after raising to put him all in.

And at @ChaosRock, i was not insinuating his hand SHOULD be mucked. He had the better hand, and obv wanted to put his $4 dollars in, he's never folding with KK for $4 more.

However, if $1's do play, and he hasn't payed (risked) the same as the surgeon or i to get to showdown, I don't see the legitimacy in this (given my understanding of poker). If he would have announced "all in", his $1's would have played, so why are they now safe? Granted on this scale, it's not a huge deal. I didn't push the issue too hard, just asked for clarification. In fact, the rule benefited me in this case. But I still didn't agree with it.

Just a weird ruling, and the majority of the table was in agreement.

Just chilling by the resort Oceanside pool, figured I'd post to get peoples' thoughts.

Ps. Surgeon was self declared. Russian gangster was an educated guess based on some resort scuttlebut. Now, don't even get me started on the Russian table-talk going on. The "house" wouldn't seem to enforce the "language rule" against the Russians. Again, I'm not used to foreign casinos enough to know how this is handled, but it was obvious they were "sharing" too much.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Only increments of $5 play at Live! as well. I was confused the first time I saw it too, but it is what it is.

It really simplifies all-ins, but it helps all calls. It not so much about the bettor's bet... it's about the calls, and the need to break things up for main and side pots. More math, more errors, less hands played...

$1's did play in other betting rounds. I witnessed and made numerous bets with blue $1 chips. $16, $22, etc... these bets were always processed at face value with no balking by the dealers. Other "all in" moves involved the $1 chips.

Now that's inconsistency I don't condone.

 

[Blaster]

$1's did play in other betting rounds. I witnessed and made numerous bets with blue $1 chips. $16, $22, etc... these bets were always processed at face value with no balking by the dealers. Other "all in" moves involved the $1 chips..... "

Then it must be the old, "Any string bet attempt freezes your hand in play, and allows you to see all turn and river cards free rule. "

 

[Ronoh]

You put far too much "I need to know why" into a situation where you're on vacation in a casino you'll never play in again on a house decision that amounts to less than one big blind.

Who gives a fuck, enjoy your time away.

 

[Trihonda]

Sorry, @Trihonda , but ^^this^^.

I see I wrote "mucked" in the OP. I will chock that up to too many pinacoladas. It's also hard to type on my phone.

Again, the hand was over. I wasn't asking to the guy's hand to be mucked. I never said that, or implied that to the dealer or floor. Kinda late anyway after the hand.

To the floor, I was supposing that one could argue that unless everyone has risked the same amount, how can his hand continue? He had chips in play. Chips that would/could be used in in factoring implied odds or game play. In this instance, the stacks were small. But I wanted clarification so I knew the rules moving forward.

 

[Mental Nomad]

I will chock that up to too many pinacoladas.

"Chalk," but that doesn't matter. The piña coladas are what matter. Enjoy your vacay!

 

[bergs]

What part of Russia was gangster from? Any chance he was Crimean or Georgian?

 

[gopherblue]

Humblebrag OP. OP wasn't about poker. OP was about location of poker.

I will be in Cayman on Monday. And I won't be posting about hands while I'm there. Although that's probably due to the fact that there are no casinos.

 

[Trihonda]

You put far too much "I need to know why" into a situation where you're on vacation in a casino you'll never play in again on a house decision that amounts to less than one big blind.

Who gives a fuck, enjoy your time away.

True. But also not so true. I enjoy my beach time. I enjoy the sun. But I also play poker live 2-3x week because I enjoy it. Once the family goes to bed, I enjoy hitting the resort casino for an hour or two. I also enjoy PCF, and this community, and talking about poker. My vacation is from the cold and work, I'm glad I can connect here from time to time.

Also. We are here for another 4 nights. I will have more sessions.

Ok, so I brought a chip rack for some cheapo chips to use while playing dice games with the crew we came the with... who dares me to needle the Russian gangsters by getting some Oreos and eating them out of the chip rack at the table... lol. Ok. I have had too many drinks. Lol.