WedgeRock
Royal Flush
I don't know that you played it wrong. You won the hand, $6 is 30xBBs, and like I said, its hard to get value from an AAAxx board (really any board with three of a kind showing).
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Very average ordinary play (edited from previous title) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Marhault
- Start date
DrStrange
4 of a Kind
Very late to the party . . .
Sad that we didn't get to discuss the hand street by street. Preferably by the hand with TT. People have a hard time keeping objective when they know the answers from the start.
I'd rate the plays this way:
Preflop - AJo is a raise preflop. This is a "one pair" sort of hand that doesn't play as well multi-way or deep stacked as it does head-up or short. There might even be times where folding is better than limping. This is a classic reverse implied odds (RIO) sort of hand. I call it raise > fold > limp playing 200 bb in a sticky, loose game.
TT is a squeezing hand from the BB, if the table can be squeezed. I am OK with a check from the big blind planning on set mining. I am also fine with a big raise hoping to drive out the limpers if that works with this cast of characters. Do not want to be in a massively multi way pot and trying to figure if my tens are good post flop playing from the blinds.
Flop - This isn't such a bad flop for TT, but is surely is not a set of tens either. I think betting could be marginal but better than check/calling. Check/calling in a five way hand is a mistake. Missing the flopped set makes this a fine time to bail on the hand.
AJ is now in a way ahead / way behind situation. Betting half pot is fine. "trap checking" is a bad idea.
Turn - TT is either drawing dead or cruising for a likely win, most likely drawing dead. This is three way action with every reason to think someone limped with Ax. I believe this is a check/fold.
AJ is now the nut hand. $1.20 into a $2 pot seems fine. Again, betting is much better than trapping with a check.
River - TT can't be good in this game. Someone has the fourth ace. I thought the turn call was wrong. So putting money in the pot at the river is even more wrong.
AJ remains the nut hand. Betting $6 into a $6 pot seems greedy to me, though it is highly villain dependent. Extraction of value holding the nuts isn't easy or obvious. As it turned out, the pot sized bet was too much. Maybe hero gets paid off with a half pot sized bet?
Was the river fold of TT "Amazing"? not to me. I though a turn fold was best, the river decision was a street too slow for my taste. The worst part of the turn decision was failing to understand a river bet was coming - if the plan was fold to a river bet, why call the turn bet? TT can't improve.
Hero got a nice chunk of value here. Of course he wanted more, but that isn't going to be easy. The villains shouldn't pay off three bets with some shabby under-full hand. Hero is telling them he has the fourth ace with every bet.
DrStrange
Sad that we didn't get to discuss the hand street by street. Preferably by the hand with TT. People have a hard time keeping objective when they know the answers from the start.
I'd rate the plays this way:
Preflop - AJo is a raise preflop. This is a "one pair" sort of hand that doesn't play as well multi-way or deep stacked as it does head-up or short. There might even be times where folding is better than limping. This is a classic reverse implied odds (RIO) sort of hand. I call it raise > fold > limp playing 200 bb in a sticky, loose game.
TT is a squeezing hand from the BB, if the table can be squeezed. I am OK with a check from the big blind planning on set mining. I am also fine with a big raise hoping to drive out the limpers if that works with this cast of characters. Do not want to be in a massively multi way pot and trying to figure if my tens are good post flop playing from the blinds.
Flop - This isn't such a bad flop for TT, but is surely is not a set of tens either. I think betting could be marginal but better than check/calling. Check/calling in a five way hand is a mistake. Missing the flopped set makes this a fine time to bail on the hand.
AJ is now in a way ahead / way behind situation. Betting half pot is fine. "trap checking" is a bad idea.
Turn - TT is either drawing dead or cruising for a likely win, most likely drawing dead. This is three way action with every reason to think someone limped with Ax. I believe this is a check/fold.
AJ is now the nut hand. $1.20 into a $2 pot seems fine. Again, betting is much better than trapping with a check.
River - TT can't be good in this game. Someone has the fourth ace. I thought the turn call was wrong. So putting money in the pot at the river is even more wrong.
AJ remains the nut hand. Betting $6 into a $6 pot seems greedy to me, though it is highly villain dependent. Extraction of value holding the nuts isn't easy or obvious. As it turned out, the pot sized bet was too much. Maybe hero gets paid off with a half pot sized bet?
Was the river fold of TT "Amazing"? not to me. I though a turn fold was best, the river decision was a street too slow for my taste. The worst part of the turn decision was failing to understand a river bet was coming - if the plan was fold to a river bet, why call the turn bet? TT can't improve.
Hero got a nice chunk of value here. Of course he wanted more, but that isn't going to be easy. The villains shouldn't pay off three bets with some shabby under-full hand. Hero is telling them he has the fourth ace with every bet.
DrStrange
This is what I thought too. We can bash him for not raising preflop or for getting greedy on the river, but given those things, I believe he got as much value on an AAA board as he could hope for.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
I think the real learning point here is that the value of the pot bears no relation to the strength of the hand... There is no connection.
Just because top-top can net you 50xBB does not mean quads is worth stacks. In fact, often times quite the opposite.
Just because top-top can net you 50xBB does not mean quads is worth stacks. In fact, often times quite the opposite.
Silver_Fiend
Flush
Yep, I've gotten very little from every royal I've ever had.
detroitdad
Royal Flush
First mistake is playing these crazy high variance 2 card games. You should stick with Big O.
I don't understand why you think this is an amazing fold. Its easy peasy to get away from his hand with three aces on the board.
It appears that your getting upset with people because they aren't agreeing with you? Reading into the meaning of posts on a forum is difficult so I could be off base on that. It reminds me of PCF'ers that ask for help with a breakdown, custom set, ect....then getting pissy when we tell them their shit sucks.
I don't understand why you think this is an amazing fold. Its easy peasy to get away from his hand with three aces on the board.
It appears that your getting upset with people because they aren't agreeing with you? Reading into the meaning of posts on a forum is difficult so I could be off base on that. It reminds me of PCF'ers that ask for help with a breakdown, custom set, ect....then getting pissy when we tell them their shit sucks.
OP
OP
Again, it's based off the player as well. This is the same guy calling low pocket pairs to the river with 3 other people in the hand, lost to 2 straights, 1 to the K one to the A, and an ace high flush. The other guys I understood calling down those bets but pocket 2s not so much. Either way, it's over, just wondered how a guy who rarely lays anything down had a 6th sense against me.
Even with all that, I asked several of the guys I play locally with but didn't make the mistake of divulging all the hand information and described the situation from the villians side and only one out of 6 said they'd lay down the 10's. My mistake was divulging all the information because everyone is a genius when they know the whole situation.
detroitdad
Royal Flush
no idea. I don't think we have played together before. Maybe you are more predictable than you think?
Maybe your group sucks. Similar to the group I play with in Michigan
Tru dat. Ultimately it simply comes down to "play better".
OP
OP
Oh there's no doubt they suck as much as I do. Either way I'll try to do a better job trying to extract value from quads from now on.no idea. I don't think we have played together before. Maybe you are more predictable than you think?
Maybe your group sucks. Similar to the group I play with in Michigan
Tru dat. Ultimately it simply comes down to "play better".
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
If you get a call on even one street after making quads, you've extracted value.
Legend5555
Full House
I have not read all the posts but here is my analysis:
This is a pretty trivial fold for TT here. You open limped pre, so you typically aren't going to have any of the pairs bigger than TT. You aren't going to bluff 3 streets into 4 other people. And the fact that the T came and your opponent has TT means there is only one T left you could be betting. So since you can't have JJ+, you can really only be betting total air (very unlikely 5 ways), you have the case T somehow and were bluffing flop and turn, or you have the A. And since you are basically never bluffing, the TT is either chopping or losing. Easy fold.
PSA: don't open limp. Fold or raise AJo pre.
This is a pretty trivial fold for TT here. You open limped pre, so you typically aren't going to have any of the pairs bigger than TT. You aren't going to bluff 3 streets into 4 other people. And the fact that the T came and your opponent has TT means there is only one T left you could be betting. So since you can't have JJ+, you can really only be betting total air (very unlikely 5 ways), you have the case T somehow and were bluffing flop and turn, or you have the A. And since you are basically never bluffing, the TT is either chopping or losing. Easy fold.
PSA: don't open limp. Fold or raise AJo pre.
OP
OP
Again. Calling stations. I vary my open with hands strong and weak.
Rhodeman77
Straight Flush
technically you didn’t get any value from quads, which is pretty standard really. You did get value with top pair, good kicker and trips (which isn’t always easy to do).
Legend5555
Full House
If they are stations, all the more reason to raise your hands pre. If they are just calling/limping with stuff like TT or hands weaker than AJ, then you should be bloating pots with your good hands pre to stack them with your good TPTK type hands.
Given your limp pre, you didn't do much wrong. So I'm not sure what you are shocked about on the river. Even bad players are capable of some form of hand reading. And there just isn't anything you can be bluffing with here. Think about what you are repping given your actions and the board. Almost no one bluffs in 5 way limpped pots.
Ben8257
Royal Flush
Fantastic analysis Scott, thank you for taking the time to break one down for us as always sir! If your ever start a poker blog I am in buddy!!
Natskule
3 of a Kind
while maybe not the most eloquent. I'm always absolutely certain on where DetroitDad stands. A+ communication skills.
Meddler2
Full House
I folded a flopped boat vs flopped quads once based on specific betting size tell from villain and other table mannerisms a few hands prior on a NL1/2 table.
This is by no means a boast post as clearly it's the wrong play 99.999% of the time that just happened to be correct.
I don't recall the betting amounts but I lead out PF.
Folds around to villain who raises. Hero makes the call w pocket JJ.
Flop JAA
Hero is first to act and opens with pot size bet....something like $50. (Hero started hand w $600. Villain re-raises putting hero all-in.
Hero tanks. Villain hasn't shown any bluffs on past 2 hours and has won every showdown. Clearly villain doesn't fear any of my hand ranges OR likes burning money.
Hero folds.
Villain tables AA for quads.
Clearly a horrible betting line by villain unless he put me on an unfoldable hand like JJ.
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detroitdad
Royal Flush
I know this is PLO, but 4 card PLO is just like Hold'em. If you need lessons on how to get paid with quads feel free to PM me.
This just happened btw.
Hand #235750-24 - 2020-12-20 18:37:59
Game: PL Omaha ($40 - 200) - Blinds 0.25/0.50
Site: Windy Crest Poker
Table: Doctor's Lounge
Seat 1: Beast2u (85.35)
Seat 2: Lola (239.60)
Seat 3: k9dr (98)
Seat 4: Woolworth (94.10)
Seat 5: Viking (107.60)
Seat 6: AKChip (108.30)
Seat 7: Ruxin (67.80)
Seat 8: detroitdad (56.20)
k9dr has the dealer button
Woolworth posts small blind 0.25
Viking posts big blind 0.50
** Hole Cards ** [8 players]
Dealt to detroitdad [Ts Td Ad 2d]
AKChip folds
Ruxin folds
detroitdad calls 0.50
Beast2u calls 0.50
Lola calls 0.50
k9dr calls 0.50
Woolworth calls 0.25
Viking checks
** Flop ** [Tc Th 5h]
Woolworth checks
Viking bets 1.95
detroitdad calls 1.95
Beast2u folds
Lola folds
k9dr folds
Woolworth folds
** Turn ** [9d]
Viking bets 6.70
detroitdad calls 6.70
** River ** [Qh]
Viking bets 20.05
detroitdad raises to 47.05 (All-in)
Viking calls 27
** Pot Show Down ** [Tc Th 5h 9d Qh]
Viking shows [5s 9c 5d 2s] (a Full House, Fives full of Tens)
detroitdad shows [Ts Td Ad 2d] (Four of a Kind, Tens +Q)
detroitdad wins Pot (114.15) with Four of a Kind
Rake (0.25) Pot (114.40) Players (Beast2u: 0.50, Lola: 0.50, k9dr: 0.50, Woolworth: 0.50, Viking: 56.20, AKChip: 0, Ruxin: 0, detroitdad: 56.20)
This just happened btw.
Hand #235750-24 - 2020-12-20 18:37:59
Game: PL Omaha ($40 - 200) - Blinds 0.25/0.50
Site: Windy Crest Poker
Table: Doctor's Lounge
Seat 1: Beast2u (85.35)
Seat 2: Lola (239.60)
Seat 3: k9dr (98)
Seat 4: Woolworth (94.10)
Seat 5: Viking (107.60)
Seat 6: AKChip (108.30)
Seat 7: Ruxin (67.80)
Seat 8: detroitdad (56.20)
k9dr has the dealer button
Woolworth posts small blind 0.25
Viking posts big blind 0.50
** Hole Cards ** [8 players]
Dealt to detroitdad [Ts Td Ad 2d]
AKChip folds
Ruxin folds
detroitdad calls 0.50
Beast2u calls 0.50
Lola calls 0.50
k9dr calls 0.50
Woolworth calls 0.25
Viking checks
** Flop ** [Tc Th 5h]
Woolworth checks
Viking bets 1.95
detroitdad calls 1.95
Beast2u folds
Lola folds
k9dr folds
Woolworth folds
** Turn ** [9d]
Viking bets 6.70
detroitdad calls 6.70
** River ** [Qh]
Viking bets 20.05
detroitdad raises to 47.05 (All-in)
Viking calls 27
** Pot Show Down ** [Tc Th 5h 9d Qh]
Viking shows [5s 9c 5d 2s] (a Full House, Fives full of Tens)
detroitdad shows [Ts Td Ad 2d] (Four of a Kind, Tens +Q)
detroitdad wins Pot (114.15) with Four of a Kind
Rake (0.25) Pot (114.40) Players (Beast2u: 0.50, Lola: 0.50, k9dr: 0.50, Woolworth: 0.50, Viking: 56.20, AKChip: 0, Ruxin: 0, detroitdad: 56.20)
OP
OP
always good to see viking get cleaned out
pharaohone
Two Pair
Wont beat a dead horse (I agree it’s an obvious lay down villain) but the only incremental thing I’d add is that this guy would need to believe you were something more than a LAG / somewhat of a maniac to call a 30 bb bet on the river when there are 3 Aces on the board and villain doesn’t have one of them. If you have that image, then the bet size is kind of interesting in that villian may believe you’re just trying to steal the pot (I know it’s pot sized but there were multi way callers and he isn’t very committed to this hand so 30 bb’s is a large bet). If you have a more normal image, it’s one of the easiest folds IMO.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Quoted for future reference...
error
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Quads with KKK on board, got paid by two boats...
Hand #236241-111 - 2020-12-20 21:07:46
Game: NL Hold'em ($50 - 100) - Blinds 0.50/1
Site: Windy Crest Poker
Table: NLHE 1 (.50/1)
Seat 1: Woolworth (76.25)
Seat 2: WedgeRock (98)
Seat 3: pmc63 (98.75)
Seat 4: Lazer (124)
Seat 5: Viking (101.75)
Seat 6: Shippy24 (24.75)
Seat 7: sicko (401)
Seat 8: br1974 (179.75)
br1974 has the dealer button
Woolworth posts small blind 0.50
WedgeRock posts big blind 1
** Hole Cards ** [8 players]
Dealt to WedgeRock [Ad Kh]
pmc63 raises to 3
Lazer folds
Viking folds
Shippy24 folds
sicko calls 3
br1974 folds
Woolworth calls 2.50
WedgeRock calls 2
** Flop ** [9s 7c Kc]
Woolworth checks
WedgeRock checks
pmc63 bets 7
sicko raises to 16
Woolworth folds
WedgeRock raises to 66.75
pmc63 raises to 95.75 (All-in)
sicko calls 79.75
WedgeRock calls 28.25 (All-in)
** Turn ** [Kd]
** River ** [Ks]
** Side Pot 1 Show Down ** [9s 7c Kc Kd Ks]
pmc63 shows [9d 9h] (a Full House, Kings full of Nines)
sicko shows [7h 7s] (a Full House, Kings full of Sevens)
pmc63 wins Side Pot 1 (1.50) with a Full House
Rake (0) Pot (1.50) Players (Woolworth: 0, WedgeRock: 0, pmc63: 0.75, Lazer: 0, Viking: 0, Shippy24: 0, sicko: 0.75, br1974: 0)
** Main Pot Show Down ** [9s 7c Kc Kd Ks]
WedgeRock shows [Ad Kh] (Four of a Kind, Kings +A)
WedgeRock wins Main Pot (296.50) with Four of a Kind
Rake (0.50) Pot (297) Players (Woolworth: 3, WedgeRock: 98, pmc63: 98, Lazer: 0, Viking: 0, Shippy24: 0, sicko: 98, br1974: 0)
Hand #236241-111 - 2020-12-20 21:07:46
Game: NL Hold'em ($50 - 100) - Blinds 0.50/1
Site: Windy Crest Poker
Table: NLHE 1 (.50/1)
Seat 1: Woolworth (76.25)
Seat 2: WedgeRock (98)
Seat 3: pmc63 (98.75)
Seat 4: Lazer (124)
Seat 5: Viking (101.75)
Seat 6: Shippy24 (24.75)
Seat 7: sicko (401)
Seat 8: br1974 (179.75)
br1974 has the dealer button
Woolworth posts small blind 0.50
WedgeRock posts big blind 1
** Hole Cards ** [8 players]
Dealt to WedgeRock [Ad Kh]
pmc63 raises to 3
Lazer folds
Viking folds
Shippy24 folds
sicko calls 3
br1974 folds
Woolworth calls 2.50
WedgeRock calls 2
** Flop ** [9s 7c Kc]
Woolworth checks
WedgeRock checks
pmc63 bets 7
sicko raises to 16
Woolworth folds
WedgeRock raises to 66.75
pmc63 raises to 95.75 (All-in)
sicko calls 79.75
WedgeRock calls 28.25 (All-in)
** Turn ** [Kd]
** River ** [Ks]
** Side Pot 1 Show Down ** [9s 7c Kc Kd Ks]
pmc63 shows [9d 9h] (a Full House, Kings full of Nines)
sicko shows [7h 7s] (a Full House, Kings full of Sevens)
pmc63 wins Side Pot 1 (1.50) with a Full House
Rake (0) Pot (1.50) Players (Woolworth: 0, WedgeRock: 0, pmc63: 0.75, Lazer: 0, Viking: 0, Shippy24: 0, sicko: 0.75, br1974: 0)
** Main Pot Show Down ** [9s 7c Kc Kd Ks]
WedgeRock shows [Ad Kh] (Four of a Kind, Kings +A)
WedgeRock wins Main Pot (296.50) with Four of a Kind
Rake (0.50) Pot (297) Players (Woolworth: 3, WedgeRock: 98, pmc63: 98, Lazer: 0, Viking: 0, Shippy24: 0, sicko: 98, br1974: 0)
Natskule
3 of a Kind
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Lucky? I only put the money in because I knew perfect, perfect was coming...
Rhodeman77
Straight Flush
How much did @CraigT78 charge you for God mode?
$20 is $20.
pharaohone
Two Pair
Lol - not a misleading intro in the slightest.
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