Very average ordinary play (edited from previous title) (2 Viewers)

[Marhault]

Hand #234870-123 - 2020-12-19 20:41:20
Game: NL Hold'em ($1 - 25) - Blinds 0.10/0.20
Site: Windy Crest Poker
Table: NLHE 6 (.10/.20)
Seat 1: Woolworth (33.35)
Seat 2: SuitedAces (45.15)
Seat 3: Viking (38.30)
Seat 4: Shippy24 (38.60)
Seat 5: Marhault (45.75)
Seat 6: Lazer (31.25)
Seat 7: Beakertwang (25)
Seat 8: TheDealer (23.10)
Seat 9: UHave2Outs (24.60)
UHave2Outs has the dealer button
Woolworth posts small blind 0.10
SuitedAces posts big blind 0.20
** Hole Cards ** [9 players]
Dealt to Marhault [Jh Ac]
Viking folds
Shippy24 folds
Marhault calls 0.20
Lazer folds
Beakertwang folds
TheDealer calls 0.20
UHave2Outs calls 0.20
Woolworth calls 0.10
SuitedAces checks
** Flop ** [As Ad 5s]
Woolworth checks
SuitedAces checks
Marhault bets 0.50
TheDealer calls 0.50
UHave2Outs folds
Woolworth folds
SuitedAces calls 0.50
** Turn ** [Ah]
SuitedAces checks
Marhault bets 1.20
TheDealer calls 1.20
SuitedAces calls 1.20
** River ** [Tc]
SuitedAces checks
Marhault bets 6
TheDealer folds
SuitedAces folds and shows [Td Th]
Marhault refunded 6
Marhault wins Pot (6)
Rake (0.10) Pot (6.10) Players (Woolworth: 0.20, SuitedAces: 1.90, Viking: 0, Shippy24: 0, Marhault: 1.90, Lazer: 0, Beakertwang: 0, TheDealer: 1.90, UHave2Outs: 0.20)
Marhault shows [Jh Ac]

What I'm wanting to know. Is on what card reading planet would the guy who folded the 10's put me on quads, because what else could he have put me on besides quads? He folded a boat with top bottom to a pot sized river bet....I mean, that's one of the biggest laydowns I've seen in a loooong time. Someone tell me I'm just wrong here.

@Beakertwang

 

[rowlin]

Is it quads when three are on board? I don’t play at a high enough level to know how sick of a laydown it was or was not.

 

[Frogzilla]

1) His boat is also losing to KK QQ JJ and chopping Tx

2) Quads aren’t that unusual when it’s AAA on the board, 5 saw the flop, and someone fired on 3 streets

3) do you bluff at anywhere close to optimal freqs?

 

[Marhault]

Is it quads when three are on board? I don’t play at a high enough level to know how sick of a laydown it was or was not.

Oh 4 of a kind? I mean what does the semantics matter?

 

[wolfpack]

could have put you on a bigger pair I guess. with 3 aces on the board any facecard pocket pair beats him

 

[Marhault]

1) His boat is also losing to KK QQ JJ and chopping Tx

2) Quads aren’t that unusual when it’s AAA on the board, 5 saw the flop, and someone fired on 3 streets

3) do you bluff at anywhere close to optimal freqs?

I'd say no I don't bluff at optimal frequencies. However if you've played with suitedaces he's very loose with his approach. He had to have thought he was slow playing me sitting with a 5 or maybe a couple over cards. I didn't display hand strength at all really.

 

[Marhault]

could have put you on a bigger pair I guess. with 3 aces on the board any facecard pocket pair beats him

I'm not limping with paired face cards. You really put someone on that hand with the bet sizing I had?

 

[Mojo1312]

Oh 4 of a kind? I mean what does the semantics matter?

The wording provides the reader with a detailed understanding of what the player is holding.

Three of a kind versus a set for example.

 

[Marhault]

The wording provides the reader with a detailed understanding of what the player is holding.

Three of a kind versus a set for example.

I posted the log. There's no mystery

 

[Marhault]

The wording provides the reader with a detailed understanding of what the player is holding.

Three of a kind versus a set for example.

Plus is there really a distinction? I've never heard of there being a difference between 4 of a kind or quads.

 

[BGinGA]

Quads is quads. Unlike trips/set, there is no difference between two, one, or even zero held in your hand.

Except occasionally for high-hand/bad-beat jackpot qualifiers.

 

[navels]

If people are open-liming AJ in middle position and not raising over 4 limps from the big blind with pocket tens, I'm assuming this is a passive scaredy-cat game, so yeah.

 

[horseshoez]

Best assumption to make is that he’s putting you on either Ax or a better pocket pair. If we’re talking about text book poker, he’s technically supposed to be paying you off on that hand more often than not. However, this wasn’t a text book play, he felt like he was beat and decided to live to fight on another board. Touché on the lay down. Those are tough but sometimes when you do it and notice you made the right decision, they’re almost as satisfying as winning the pot. There’s so many factors at play here that are unknown to those not familiar with these players. The bet sizing could have played a part, how quickly or not the bet and calls were being made, etc.

 

[JMC9389]

First mistake is not betting preflop. In a 0.10/0.20 game, I'd bet AJ in the hijack.

I like the bet off the flop. Not overbetting but you're repping a pocket pair here that may be get beat by a higher pair or trips. Bet too high and you get no action here. Turn bet is fine too. The river bet is way too huge of an overbet. A half pot bet here gets more action that a pot size bet or overbet. The villains with mid to high pocket pairs may pay you off with a smaller bet here.

As for the villain's lay down, as others have mentioned, he's actually beat by quite a lot of different hands. You may as well have written in the chat box "I HAVE THE FOURTH ACE!!!!". I don't agree that high pairs are at all in your range if you flatted preflop unless you have the table image of a huge nit.

 

[Mojo1312]

I posted the log. There's no mystery

Nonetheless, using appropriate terminology is helpful when discussing hands. You can't rely on everyone reading the OP.

 

[horseshoez]

I don't agree that high pairs are at all in your range if you flatted preflop unless you have the table image of a huge nit.

It’s why I said, we don’t know who has what image of who and how they perceive their betting patterns. Only the guys that are facing each other regularly.

 

[Marhault]

First mistake is not betting preflop. In a 0.10/0.20 game, I'd bet AJ in the hijack.

I like the bet off the flop. Not overbetting but you're repping a pocket pair here that may be get beat by a higher pair or trips. Bet too high and you get no action here. Turn bet is fine too. The river bet is way too huge of an overbet. A half pot bet here gets more action that a pot size bet or overbet. The villains with mid to high pocket pairs may pay you off with a smaller bet here.

As for the villain's lay down, as others have mentioned, he's actually beat by quite a lot of different hands. You may as well have written in the chat box "I HAVE THE FOURTH ACE!!!!". I don't agree that high pairs are at all in your range if you flatted preflop unless you have the table image of a huge nit.

I raise them occasionally and slow them occasionally. I don't ever play it the same twice

 

[Marhault]

First mistake is not betting preflop. In a 0.10/0.20 game, I'd bet AJ in the hijack.

I like the bet off the flop. Not overbetting but you're repping a pocket pair here that may be get beat by a higher pair or trips. Bet too high and you get no action here. Turn bet is fine too. The river bet is way too huge of an overbet. A half pot bet here gets more action that a pot size bet or overbet. The villains with mid to high pocket pairs may pay you off with a smaller bet here.

As for the villain's lay down, as others have mentioned, he's actually beat by quite a lot of different hands. You may as well have written in the chat box "I HAVE THE FOURTH ACE!!!!". I don't agree that high pairs are at all in your range if you flatted preflop unless you have the table image of a huge nit.

He's only beat by a hand with an A or KK, QQ, or JJ....

 

[Jimulacrum]

Someone folding the fifth nuts here, when his opponent has shown strength consistent with having an ace from the flop, is not really unusual or suspicious.

 

[Marhault]

He also showed his fold, which to me makes me think he thought he was bluffed off the hand.

 

[Ethan]

Fact is he had Tx on the river. Not TT. I bet historical play gives a read that middle pair in this spot is beat by river pot bet on scary board. Not the easiest or hardest fold.

Not trying to be tough on you. Just reading it how I play. Always sucks to not get value!

 

[Rhodeman77]

A board with AAA is a lot different than a board with 333 on. Lots of people see flops with any Ace in their hand.

he called 2 streets of betting, by the 3rd bet he realized he is beat. I don’t see why OP thinks this is a tough fold to make?

 

[Marhault]

A board with AAA is a lot different than a board with 333 on. Lots of people see flops with any Ace in their hand.

he called 2 streets of betting, by the 3rd bet he realized he is beat. I don’t see why OP thinks this is a tough fold to make?

I don't understand how you dont see it as a tough fold.

I forget everyone here is the greatest poker players on the planet. I just didn't understand how a player that regularly calls absolute shit lays down a monster hand.

 

[BGinGA]

Plus OP still betting after a River ten pretty much says he has a AAA/TT boat beat, one way or another. May be a harder fold with a river 9 or less.

 

[Perthmike]

He's only beat by a hand with an A or KK, QQ, or JJ....

Hes literally beating nothing at this point that would bet flop and turn, and keep firing on the river.

Snap fold for me. Especially since you limped AJ, so you don't likely have many bluffs in your range.

 

[Marhault]

Hes literally beating nothing at this point that would bet flop and turn, and keep firing on the river.

Snap fold for me.

It's becoming aparent that I'm a terrible poker player and the guy that regularly chases garbage, shoves with low pocket pairs is an idiot savant. My bad.

 

[Perthmike]

It's becoming aparent that I'm a terrible poker player and the guy that regularly chases garbage, shoves with low pocket pairs is an idiot savant. My bad.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as surprised as the next guy to see suited aces fold. But I promise you I would snap fold that hand.

What hands does he beat by the river that you would continue firing with?

 

[upNdown]

Nonetheless, using appropriate terminology is helpful when discussing hands. You can't rely on everyone reading the OP.

As suggested above, quads are quads. Do you think he should have called it something else?

Anyway, I agree that this was a good fold but not some cray crystal ball fold. Given the preflop action, I could only conclude that OP had Ace rag. QQ is as unlikely as AJ here, but as somebody else said, it's not difficult to believe OP had some kind of ace.

 

[Marhault]

Don't get me wrong, I'm as surprised as the next guy to see suited aces fold. But I promise you I would snap fold that hand.

What hands does he beat by the river that you would continue firing with?

I was trying to represent the 5 giving me a lower boat. Hoping that he had the 5. I obviously failed.

 

[Silver_Fiend]

If you were known to be tight and aggressive, I would have probably put you on an ace at the flop. Actually if you were anything other than a bluffer, I would have put you the ace. In the end it comes down to probability. What are chances/risk/reward for gambling that you had anything worse than pocket 9s.