Cash Game Typical breakdown for limit games (1 Viewer)

[Psypher1000]

I know some folks out there have limit sets. I'm curious what limits you use and what your breakdown is for those limit sets.

Also, I'm curious to what a generic limit set breakdown might look like comprised of no more than three different NCV's. Assume a table of ten players and buyins/rebuys equal to 50bb.

 

[jbutler]

Do you mean buy ins of 50 big blinds or 50 big bets? Usually limit buy ins are expressed in big bets and 50 big blinds is equal to the standard limit buy in of 25 big bets, so I'll just assume the latter.

Even then it's not an exact science when using all non-denoms because you will want to nail down a structure (i.e., 2 chip/4 chip, 3 chip/6 chip, etc).

I prefer 3 chip/6 chip so assuming that structure, I will say you'll want a minimum of 1 rack of the lowest value per player. Let's be generous though and say that each first buy in is composed of only lowest denom chips. Then you'll give out the second buy in with the second denom, which we'll assume will be 20x the lowest denom. Then your third buy in per player (we play with degens, right? 3 buy ins each) can be with the second denom as well. If you're absolutely set on getting a third denom go for it but it's really not necessary imo.

So that leaves you with a breakdown for 10 players of:

1500 (x)
150 (20x)
However many you want (100x)

If you want to go a bit more conservative in your total set you can certainly get by with a rack per player of the workhorse denom and just do:

1000 (x)
175 (20x)
Whatever (100x)

If you want to get super, super conservative you can squeak by with 60 workhorse chips per player and do:

600 (x)
195 (20x)
A bunch (100x)

But part of the fun of limit madness is having tons and tons of chips in play imo. As far as what my group plays with, I wish I could change them, but they've been stuck for years in this structure before I was here. We play $5/10/15 (sometimes leaving off the $15 depending who hosts) with all redbirds. So a 1 chip/2 chip/ 3 chip structure. Yuck! But they're old and stuck in their ways and donkish enough to get an assload of chips in play anyway

 

[BGinGA]

Personally, I think the best limit sets are those that use only two denominations -- a workhorse denominations (tons and tons), and a high-value denomination (typically 10x to 20x the workhorse value, but can vary). So a combination of these denominations, depending upon stakes:

25c/$2 or 25c/$5
50c/$5 or 50c/$10
$1/$10 or $1/$20 (or $1/$25)
$2/$20
$5/$100

Depending on the crowd, I personally like playing 2/4 with 50c chips (4/8 chip game), and 3/6 or 4/8 with $1 chips (3/6 or 4/8 chip game). As jbutler noted, one chip/two chip games suck. If building a set from scratch, I'd plan on 2-chip/4-chip as a minimum.

As far as the massive quantities needed, I think Jack has that side nailed down pretty well.

 

[abby99]

I hosted a limit game last weekend. We played 2/4 with a half kill to 3/6, with 8 players. Some of the players played overs at 3/6 with a 1/3 kill to 4/8. We had 1200 $1s on the table (average 1.5 racks/player) and nearly two barrels of $20s. Buy-ins ranged from $100 to $200. Fun game with lots of chips moving around.

We love using denoms of $1 and $20. Making change is super easy (one barrel of $1s = one $20 chip).

We've played with as few as 6 racks of $1s for 8 players, but I can't imagine going any lower. We had $5s on the table (yuck but whatcha gonna do).

 

[Mr. Cheese]

Not to thread jack but I was thinking now that I've got 4 racks of 1's I could host a 2/4 limit game for 7 or 8 players but I probably don't have enough ones. Although our max buyin is usually 60 or 100 and most everyone does just 50 so it could work maybe? Use my 5 dollar chips as well or would my $25 chip be better and no fives?

 

[courage]

Do you mean buy ins of 50 big blinds or 50 big bets? Usually limit buy ins are expressed in big bets and 50 big blinds is equal to the standard limit buy in of 25 big bets, so I'll just assume the latter.

Even then it's not an exact science when using all non-denoms because you will want to nail down a structure (i.e., 2 chip/4 chip, 3 chip/6 chip, etc).

I prefer 3 chip/6 chip so assuming that structure, I will say you'll want a minimum of 1 rack of the lowest value per player. Let's be generous though and say that each first buy in is composed of only lowest denom chips. Then you'll give out the second buy in with the second denom, which we'll assume will be 20x the lowest denom. Then your third buy in per player (we play with degens, right? 3 buy ins each) can be with the second denom as well. If you're absolutely set on getting a third denom go for it but it's really not necessary imo.

So that leaves you with a breakdown for 10 players of:

1500 (x)
150 (20x)
However many you want (100x)

If you want to go a bit more conservative in your total set you can certainly get by with a rack per player of the workhorse denom and just do:

1000 (x)
175 (20x)
Whatever (100x)

If you want to get super, super conservative you can squeak by with 60 workhorse chips per player and do:

600 (x)
195 (20x)
A bunch (100x)

But part of the fun of limit madness is having tons and tons of chips in play imo. As far as what my group plays with, I wish I could change them, but they've been stuck for years in this structure before I was here. We play $5/10/15 (sometimes leaving off the $15 depending who hosts) with all redbirds. So a 1 chip/2 chip/ 3 chip structure. Yuck! But they're old and stuck in their ways and donkish enough to get an assload of chips in play anyway

This pretty much nails it imo regarding options, although I prefer the 2 denom sets. A few weeks ago I hosted a 3/6 limit PLO8/PLO game with kill to 5/10. I could get by with a rack of white per player but two racks makes it fawesome and we still got plenty of $25 in play with 10 players. If I were doing customs I'd prolly go with $1 and $20 but this set works just fine.

 

[jbutler]

Not to thread jack but I was thinking now that I've got 4 racks of 1's I could host a 2/4 limit game for 7 or 8 players but I probably don't have enough ones. Although our max buyin is usually 60 or 100 and most everyone does just 50 so it could work maybe? Use my 5 dollar chips as well or would my $25 chip be better and no fives?

In general you don't want to have $1s and $5s in play together in a limit game. Betting gets awkward and cumbersome imo. You could squeak by, but really you should be adding on at least 2 more racks of $1s to spread $2/4 limit. Obviously 4 more racks would be even better.

The quickest way to think about best limit breakdown practices is to ensure that each player can receive an entire full buy-in in workhorse denoms. So in your game that would be 8 racks of $1 so that each of the first 8 players would start with 100 chips each.

 

[Psypher1000]

Great info, folks...these insights were extremely helpful.

My group has been enjoying microstakes circus games, but I'd like to graduate them up to something a little more intermediate or "serious" while still keeping the risk low. Additionally, Mrs. Psypher is seriously intimidated by NL games for many reasons, so a limit game seems to be a viable option. I'm thinking I'll run between a 10c/20c - 20c/40c game to see how everyone enjoys it, but wanted to make sure I had the chips for it. My Empress set has plenty of fivers and hundos, so that will more than suffice until I get customs made (Infinity Club at The Armory - ironic name, sure, but the chips will be all NCV so they can be used for any stakes, and thus the options for the denoms are infinite). Given the amount of chips necessary for a decent limit set, cost becomes a factor. Not sure if I'll go cc's, ceramics, or CPC, but I'm in no rush on those since Madame Empress covers the present need.

The next question, then, moves to games. I know Texas Hold'em and Omaha are limit game options. What else makes a good limit game? 7-stud? 5-draw?

 

[thorwilliam]

Razz and 2-7 triple draw are among my favorite limit games.

 

[Mr. Cheese]

In general you don't want to have $1s and $5s in play together in a limit game. Betting gets awkward and cumbersome imo. You could squeak by, but really you should be adding on at least 2 more racks of $1s to spread $2/4 limit. Obviously 4 more racks would be even better.

The quickest way to think about best limit breakdown practices is to ensure that each player can receive an entire full buy-in in workhorse denoms. So in your game that would be 8 racks of $1 so that each of the first 8 players would start with 100 chips each.

Makes sense, I guess I could use the 1's and 25's and skip the 5's. For your example having a full buyin for each player @ $50 means I'd only need 4 racks so this might be doable. While the max is 60-100 depending on what other games we have that night almost no one does more then 50 regardless.

 

[BGinGA]

I know Texas Hold'em and Omaha are limit game options. What else makes a good limit game?

All of the HORSE games: Hold'em, Omaha hi/lo, Razz, 7-card Stud, and Stud hi/lo. Badugi is another good choice for fixed-limit games.

 

[slisk250]

This is good information. I haven't played limit games and can now justify having all those racks of STJ 1s

 

[Mr. Cheese]

This is good information. I haven't played limit games and can now justify having all those racks of STJ 1s

Wait all those beautiful Terrible's are supposed to come home to Dan's Terrible's man cave next summer lol.

 

[jbutler]

Makes sense, I guess I could use the 1's and 25's and skip the 5's. For your example having a full buyin for each player @ $50 means I'd only need 4 racks so this might be doable. While the max is 60-100 depending on what other games we have that night almost no one does more then 50 regardless.

If you're doing $50 buy-ins then you don't want to do a $2/4 game using $1s. You want to do a $1/2 game, which means $.50/1 blinds and using all .50s. In that case you'd want to use the structure suggested by Dave above where each player gets a rack of .50s.

If you are firm on using $1s and are limited to a $50 buy-in, as an alternative you could do $1/1 blinds with $1/2 limits. Our $5/10/15 does $5/5 blinds - it works alright, but is definitely not the most fun structure.

 

[Mr. Cheese]

If you're doing $50 buy-ins then you don't want to do a $2/4 game using $1s. You want to do a $1/2 game, which means $.50/1 blinds and using all .50s. In that case you'd want to use the structure suggested by Dave above where each player gets a rack of .50s.

If you are firm on using $1s and are limited to a $50 buy-in, as an alternative you could do $1/1 blinds with $1/2 limits. Our $5/10/15 does $5/5 blinds - it works alright, but is definitely not the most fun structure.

I'm going to be out of luck either way. I've only got 400x.25's, 400x1's, 100x5's, and 30x25's.

 

[jbutler]

I'm going to be out of luck either way. I've only got 400x.25's, 400x1's, 100x5's, and 30x25's.

Don't let my curmudgeonly attitude spoil the game. Just spread $1/2 limits and use quarter for the blinds. Everyone gets 20 quarters and 40 $1s. Sure we'll all say it would be more fun if you all one denom on the table but the game will be great anyway. Limit is a ton of fun, particularly with a group of guys who just want to get together and mess around and have a good time with new games.

 

[links_slayer]

Limit is a ton of fun, particularly with a group of guys who just want to get together and mess around and have a good time with new games.

i don't know if i could agree with this more. the micro stakes mixed limit game nights i've hosted in the past have been some of the most fun. haven't hosted one in a while though....but i have 2 racks of TPP nickels coming....hmmm.

 

[jbutler]

i don't know if i could agree with this more. the micro stakes mixed limit game nights i've hosted in the past have been some of the most fun. haven't hosted one in a while though....but i have 2 racks of TPP nickels coming....hmmm.

Just to further the point, I played a regular game in law school that was all limit dealer's choice at $1/2 limits that was played with those godawful Target Michael Graves poker chips and it was an absolute blast. Baseball, chase the bitch, 9s and 3s, low Chicago, stud hi, LHE.

All the dumb games and all the regular games and I don't think I ever saw a single argument or serious disagreement in something like a hundred or so sessions over three years. People just liked gambling and nobody had to think too much with the limit structure.

 

[courage]

and I don't think I ever saw a single argument or serious disagreement in something like a hundred or so sessions over three years.

Not even over whether 5 of a kind beats a natural royal flush?

 

[Psypher1000]

Just to further the point, I played a regular game ... that was all limit dealer's choice ...and it was an absolute blast. Baseball, chase the bitch, 9s and 3s, low Chicago, stud hi, LHE. All the dumb games and all the regular games and I don't think I ever saw a single argument or serious disagreement ...people just liked gambling and nobody had to think too much with the limit structure.

This. The first regular game I played was w/pennies & bets ranged from 1-3 cents. No game was too crazy, although we did set a limit on the number of wild cards there could be in any given game. The closest thing we came to an argument when my dad forgot we were playing "night" baseball and started looking at his cards; my friend's dad - all 300lbs of him - literally came across the table, pointed his finger in my dad's face, and just started shouting, "HE'S CHEATING! THE CRIPPLE'S CHEATING!" Dad had no idea what he did; my buddy and I probably burned 5lbs from laughing so hard and so much. My dad was indeed in a wheelchair, but it was done in jest & dad was confident enough and wise enough to realize as much. Good times.

This is also the type of game that we largely play today but with bets ranging from nickles to quarters. Nobody's losing rent & nobody's leaving angry. Fun times! Just looking to take the limit game up a little bit in professionalism is all while still keeping the fun & dealer's choice elements in the game.

 

[abby99]

For maximum flexibility and a high coolness factor, making a set with two different base colors and non-denominated inlays or labels is a great idea (IMO). I would get at least 1000 workhorse chips of one color, and a smaller number of chips to be used for the higher value equal to 20 or 25 of the workhorse chips. Examples: .10/.20 and 2, .50/1 and 10, 2/4 and 20, 5/10 and 100, This idea has been brought up before (@Chicken Rob or @jbutler?) and I really like it. It would make sense for somebody who wants lots of chips for a limit game without having to buy a full array of denominated chips.

 

[Psypher1000]

For maximum flexibility and a high coolness factor, making a set with two different base colors and non-denominated inlays or labels is a great idea (IMO).

This is exactly what I'd like to do at some point in the indefinite future, for various reasons...

• Play any limits I want
• A non-denominated set doesn't care about inflation or the currency unit of the country I live in
• I can always add other colors to it (if the manufacturer still exists, of course) to increase its flexibility in the future
• Because having racks and racks and racks of a single chip I designed just seems cool

 

[Psypher1000]

Hmm...what are your thoughts on using acrylic plaques for the upper denom?

 

[Ghoti]

Thanks for all the info guys. Building a set at the moment and this thread was incredibly helpful.

 

[churlbut18]

I'm resurfacing this slightly older thread because for as much as we focus on NLHE, I still love a good limit game, which provides a bit more of a relaxed atmosphere.

Key takeaways from this thread for me:

1) standard limit buy-in is 25 big bets, not big blinds (@jbutler)
2) the best limit sets are those with only two denominations (@BGinGA and others)
3) high value denomination should be 20x the workhorse denomination (1 barrel = 1 chip)
4) 2 chip / 4 chip or 4 chip / 8 chip structure is superior to 1 chip / 2 chip

So with all of that in mind, here's what I'm leaning towards for my game and set.

- $0.50 / $1 Limit, with small blind $0.25 and big blind $0.50
- buy in of $25 (25 x big bet)
- workhorse chip being $0.25, making this a 2 chip / 4 chip structure
- high-value denomination being $5 (20 x workhorse)
- starting stacks of 60 x $0.25 and 2 x $5
- all rebuys 5 x $5
- set would be 600 x $0.25 and 200 x $5

Note: I know handing out a full rack of the workhorse to each player is preferred, but that is a very costly option and the likelihood of finding 1000 of the same workhorse chip is going to be very challenging unless you buy stock chips, go custom route, or search and compile casino fracs for years (which are already hard to come by). Thinking Paulson solid starbursts may be a good option here. No need to count edge spots and stack size in limit game so solids work.

Thoughts on any of the above??

 

[Psypher1000]

Note: I know handing out a full rack of the workhorse to each player is preferred, but that is a very costly option and the likelihood of finding 1000 of the same workhorse chip is going to be very challenging unless you buy stock chips, go custom route, or search and compile casino fracs for years (which are already hard to come by). Thinking Paulson solid starbursts may be a good option here. No need to count edge spots and stack size in limit game so solids work.

Thoughts on any of the above??

Couple thoughts. Typically when folks build a limit set, they di it in all 1's. That can either stand for one dollar, or one "unit". The value chip is then the $25. This is infinitely more practical than going with a properly denominated set since it can apply for *any* limit game, and certainly cheaper than going full fracs. If you always wanted to stick with quarters, however, you could just go with $25's and $500s or an NCV for the value chip. And BTW, I may have such a set for you in a few months. Cleaned and oiled. Maybe. We'll see.

Anyway, That's all assuming you went with casino chips, and there's absolutely no need to. IMO, custom ceramics make perfect sense for limit sets if you don't constantly play limit. You can get what you want with in 1-2 months and they are *yours*.

Now that CPC does hotstamping, why not make your own starburst and just make a solid starburst set for yourself and get it mint? In the long run that will be faster and cheaper than a Paulson set and in better condition as well, plus there's no risk of color difference between starburst batches.

 

[churlbut18]

Couple thoughts. Typically when folks build a limit set, they di it in all 1's. That can either stand for one dollar, or one "unit". The value chip is then the $25. This is infinitely more practical than going with a properly denominated set since it can apply for *any* limit game, and certainly cheaper than going full fracs. If you always wanted to stick with quarters, however, you could just go with $25's and $500s or an NCV for the value chip. And BTW, I may have such a set for you in a few months. Cleaned and oiled. Maybe. We'll see.

Anyway, That's all assuming you went with casino chips, and there's absolutely no need to. IMO, custom ceramics make perfect sense for limit sets if you don't constantly play limit. You can get what you want with in 1-2 months and they are *yours*.

Now that CPC does hotstamping, why not make your own starburst and just make a solid starburst set for yourself and get it mint? In the long run that will be faster and cheaper than a Paulson set and in better condition as well, plus there's no risk of color difference between starburst batches.

Thanks @Psypher1000

Several very good thoughts to consider. Never thought of using $1's and $25's (or $25's and $500's) regardless of stakes. They are certainly easier to come by than fracs but still not ideal for me. A bit confusing. As you suggested, I was leaning towards custom ceramics for this set. But now I need to consider CPC hotstamping too. Don't know much about that yet.

 

[Chicken Rob]

The current borgata tribute group buy would make a great ceramic limit set if you were so inclined. CPC solid hot stamps, or CPC solid scroll molds with oversized 20x chips would be awesome as well.

If money is not a complete obstacle, 1800 1x and 200 20x fill 2 bird cages perfectly.

 

[Psypher1000]

Never thought of using $1's and $25's (or $25's and $500's) regardless of stakes.

FWIW, I don't recommend using the $25's/$500's regardless of stakes. That recommendation is strictly for a $1/$2 or $2/$4 limit game. If you think you might play anything other than that, I wouldn't go with $25's and $500's.

I want to echo what @Chicken Rob said about the Borgata tribute GB - going with the small NCV for your betting chips and the 43mm NCV as your value chips is a solid, economical, flexible, resellable way to go.

 

[moose]

My limit PCA set. 1500 $1s. My favourite game to spread is $3/6 HORSE with a kill to $4/8 which applies to any scoop in the split pot games or winning 2x hands in a row in the other games. An orbit of each game unless the orbit ends on a kill, then the game continues as long as the kill lives. (We hate counting the pot so min qualifier is to see at least a flop or 4th Street in the stud games). Ante is $.25 with a $1 bringin in the stud games.