Tourney Tourney AND Cash - 500 chipset breakdown? (1 Viewer)

Darson

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I know, I know, don't mix tourney and cash. BUT...

A buddy of mine just bought his first house and I want to give him a 500 chip set as a housewarming present. I'm trying to work a breakdown that will allow him to host one of our regular monthly games but also be usable if he wants to play cash if the need arises. Our monthly game is T10k starting stacks with two rebuys and up to 10 players. So I came up with the following:

120 x T25
200 x T100
40 x T500
80 x T1000
40 x T5000
20 x rebuy chips

This will allow 12/17/4/6 staring stacks with enough T100 to colour up the T25s and with the first two rebuys as 10xT1000 and subsequent rebuys as 2xT5000. And this will allow him to use the 25/100/500 as 25c, $1 & $5 for a cash game should he desire with a bank of $430 which should be plenty for a 25c/25c game.

Although I feel this may be a bit tight, realistically most of the time there will be 6-8 players which makes it feel much more doable. I thought of changing to a 12/12/5/6 starting stack and re-balancing but this takes away a lot of 100s and I'd like to keep them for cash mode.

Is this workable or can you suggest a better breakdown? Would going to 600 chips make things much easier? The chips are a sunk cost so the incremental cost to me to go to 600 would be another $25 in labels.
 
Your proposed breakdown will work, but going with a T2000 chip is a lot more efficient -- getting more bang-for-the-buck on both the cash set (25c, $1, $5, $20, $100) and tourney set sides:

120 x T25
220 x T100
76 x T500
20 x T2000
24 x T10000
20 x rebuy chips
-----------
480 tournament chips, which also creates a $3,430 cash bank. Can always use the re-buy chips as $100s if needed, bumping the total bank to $5,430. Even if just using quarters, dollars, and fives, the bank is increased to $630, with 416 lower denomination chips now available for cash play (vs just 360 chips for a $430 bank). And no need to ever deal with funky $10 or $50 chips.

12/22/7/2 breakdown for T10k tournament stacks, with enough extra T2000 chips (6) to color-up the T25/T100 chips, extra T10K chips (4) to color-up the T500s, and enough T10K chips to cover the 20 re-buy chips. Even have space in a 500-chip set now for bounty chips (or more quarters, ones or fives). :)


Alternately, since it's a .25/.25 cash game, you could use the 500+ chip breakdown below to get more quarters in play, while still retaining a larger number of available $1s:

160 x T25
210 x T100
78 x T500
20 x T2000
24 x T10000
20 x rebuy chips
-----------
512 tournament chips, using 16/21/7/2 stacks. $640 bank using just the 448 three lowest denominations, with another $400 available by introducing $20 chips.
 
What about doing the denominations as the cash denoms .25,$1,$5 etc and including the structure on laminated card for a T100 tournament?
 
I generally agree with BG that for 200BB and starting at T25, the T2000 is more efficient. I’m going to offer up 2 ideas.

For T25/100/500/1,000/5,000:
25x120 (12 ea) – 120 -- $30
100x120 (12 ea) -- 240 -- $120
500x30 (5 ea) -- 270 -- $150
1,000x70 (3 ea) +30 for color up -- 370 -- $370
5,000x0 +60 for color up and rebuy – 430 -- $3000
Total Cash Bank – $3,670

That gives you 70 chips for your 500 set, and 170 for your 600 set to add what you want. For the cash game, I'd get the extra chips you think would help the most with those chips.

For T25/100/500/2,000/10,000:
25x120 (12 ea) – 120 -- $30
100x120 (12 ea) -- 240 -- $120
500x50 (5 ea) – 290 -- $250
2,000x30 (3 ea) +20 for color up -- 340 -- $1000
10,000x0 +30 for color up and rebuy – 370 -- $3700
Total Cash Bank – $5,100

That gives you 130 chips for your 500 set, and 230 for your 600 set to add what you want. For the cash game, I'd get the extra chips you think would help the most with those chips.

For a cash game, this one makes way more sense. Not only is it more efficient, but you are using the $20 bill instead of a $10.

Notes:

  • I am not a fan of one set for cash a tournament. If both are used on the same night, how much in accidental migration to the cash game would it take to be a problem? If the 2 games were never going on at the same time, it might be avoidable, but otherwise, it's likely to happen eventually.
  • A bank of $430 for 10 players in a $.25/.25 game is only an average of 172BB. If playing no limit, I don't think that is anywhere near enough bank. You could use the higher value chips, of course.
  • If you want tournament players being in their comfort zone, making it more likely they would play cash, there is a big difference between 172BB for cash and 200-500BB for tournaments. You don't say what your buy-ins are for tournaments, but if it was $20 with a rebuy of $20, for $40 you get 400BB (actually a little less since typically a rebuy would be after the blinds have gone up, but you get the idea). In cash, you get 172BB for that same $40.
  • One thing you could do is is get 800 chips with 2 400-chip sets for cash and tournament. Not only would you be complying with the PCF standard MORE CHIP rule, since you are from Texas, and everything is bigger here...
  • If you went with 2 different chip sets, for cash I'd either use either $.05/.25/1/5/20, maybe with a few $100s in there; or $.25/1/5/20/100. In that case, an easy way to distinguish the 2 sets is using T25/100/500/1,000/5,000 for the tournament set.
  • If he ever went to a tournament T15,000, the T1,000 vs. T2,000 efficiency changes in favor of the T1,000 before getting to color up and rebuy chips.
  • If you went to 2 500 or 600 chip sets, a very Texas thing to do, you could do almost anything you wanted.
 
@Frogzilla , that (25c / $1 / $5 / $25 / $100, with T100 tournaments) has always been my preference for dual-purpose sets, if used primarily for cash games.

If mostly used for tournaments, I prefer 25 / 100 / 500 / 2000 / 10000 denominations, with a very small 'cents' currency sign that can represent cash game values.
 
I agree with the others, this looks like a good spot to use T2000 if you are trying to dual pupose this. And if your intent is to divide by 100 and play cash, then at least you aren't running as much risk of crossover if the T25 dual purposes at a quarter and not 25 dollars.

So I would normally suggest building for cash something like 100/200/160/40 of .25/1/5/20 for 500 chips, bank 2125. But for your tournament rebuy requirements, I think we need to go a little more top-heavy.

Ten stacks of 8/18/14/1 (T25/100/500/2000) require 80/180/140/20 to start, or 400 chips in your set right there. 20 T10000 cover your rebury requirements, an additional 80 T2000 color up the T25/100/500 chips.

So that brings the totals to 80/180/140/100/20, which I think is still a credible .25-.25 cash breakdown as well dividing by 100.
 
Last edited:
Thanks guys, great advice and I'm glad I asked because I wouldn't have thought of the $20/T2000 option. I'll think I'll go with @BGinGA suggestion for the 120/220/80/40/20 chipset which seems like it would be the happy medium. 12/17/4/3 starting stacks and enough so that the first 4 rebuys will be with smaller chips before the single 10k chip rebuy - there will be plenty on the table by then to make change.

Now I'm playing with the idea of putting cash denom on one side and tourney on the other like this:

260243
 
If it were me, I would just denominate whichever way you would use it more, just omit the currency symbol.

So if the tournament is more frequent, then use 25/100/500/2000/10000, if it's cash that's more frequent then 0.25/1/5/20/100. I know fractions are not common in tournament play, but after the first color up, it would all be whole numbers.

Late edit
120/220/80/40/20

Looks like this is 480 chips. I would get 20 more 500s. My only concern with this breakdown is this might be thin on 5s for cash, especially if 25/50c stake would be in the future.
 
I went with this breakdown for my dual use set:
160 $25
200 $100
200 $500
40 $2000

These will easily cover a STT:
12-12-9-2 with plenty of rebuys and color ups.

For the cash game we cover .25/.25 quite easily for my normal 8 player game with a $50 buy-in.

Barrel of “fracs“
Barrel if $1’s
Five $5’s

I will be adding a rack of $5’s(nickles).
This would allow me to run a Micro Cash set or T1000 STT and/or use the fives as bounty chips for the T10k. Currently I have a barrel of bounties.
3C7C2199-E518-461F-8BB2-E76A5AB3FBCC.jpeg
 
I went with this breakdown for my dual use set:
160 $25
200 $100
200 $500
40 $2000

These will easily cover a STT:
12-12-9-2 with plenty of rebuys and color ups.

For the cash game we cover .25/.25 quite easily for my normal 8 player game with a $50 buy-in.

Barrel of “fracs“
Barrel if $1’s
Five $5’s

I will be adding a rack of $5’s(nickles).
This would allow me to run a Micro Cash set or T1000 STT and/or use the fives as bounty chips for the T10k. Currently I have a barrel of bounties.
View attachment 454250
Absolutely stunning, very well done
 
Agreed, those relabeled SB chips are a great choice for a 2000 chip.
 
Your proposed breakdown will work, but going with a T2000 chip is a lot more efficient -- getting more bang-for-the-buck on both the cash set (25c, $1, $5, $20, $100) and tourney set sides:

120 x T25
220 x T100
76 x T500
20 x T2000
24 x T10000
20 x rebuy chips
-----------
480 tournament chips, which also creates a $3,430 cash bank. Can always use the re-buy chips as $100s if needed, bumping the total bank to $5,430. Even if just using quarters, dollars, and fives, the bank is increased to $630, with 416 lower denomination chips now available for cash play (vs just 360 chips for a $430 bank). And no need to ever deal with funky $10 or $50 chips.

12/22/7/2 breakdown for T10k tournament stacks, with enough extra T2000 chips (6) to color-up the T25/T100 chips, extra T10K chips (4) to color-up the T500s, and enough T10K chips to cover the 20 re-buy chips. Even have space in a 500-chip set now for bounty chips (or more quarters, ones or fives). :)


Alternately, since it's a .25/.25 cash game, you could use the 500+ chip breakdown below to get more quarters in play, while still retaining a larger number of available $1s:

160 x T25
210 x T100
78 x T500
20 x T2000
24 x T10000
20 x rebuy chips
-----------
512 tournament chips, using 16/21/7/2 stacks. $640 bank using just the 448 three lowest denominations, with another $400 available by introducing $20 chips.

The way this shit just rolls off of your tongue is nonsensical. I have to think so hard to put together even half as good of a setup, blind structure, and it usually involves a ton of research.
Now, I know you've been doing it on the daily, forever. But, it's always nice to see you constantly helping out with the same stuff over and over again. Props to you.
 

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