Tourney Tournament ruling (1 Viewer)

[WedgeRock]

I couldn't find the BGinGA forum, so I'll just put this here.

Home game tournament, part of a league. Blinds are 7k/15k. UTG makes it 55k to go. Folds around to the SB who says, "call" then completes his SB to 15k. Before BB acts, the raise is brought to his attention.

SB then returns his bet to 7k and folds his cards into the loose muck (on top and identifiable).

UTG (raiser) asks for a ruling.

Floor?

 

[Ronoh]

If you're a stickler for the rules it's a call of 55k and a fold but being a home game any ruling is fine as long as it's kept consistent.

 

[moose]

His action is correct if you are following RROP.

13. A player who bets or calls by releasing chips into the pot is bound by that action and must make the amount of the wager correct. (This also applies right before the showdown when putting chips into the pot causes the opponent to show the winning hand before the full amount needed to call has been put into the pot.) However, if you are unaware that the pot has been raised, you may withdraw that money and reconsider your action, provided that no one else has acted after you. At pot-limit or no-limit betting, if there is a gross misunderstanding concerning the amount of the wager, see Section 14, Rule 8.

 

[Ronoh]

Touché. If I was the floor I'd still call it binding for him not clarifying the house rule with the dealer before mucking

 

[krafticus]

I couldn't find the BGinGA forum, so I'll just put this here.

Home game tournament, part of a league. Blinds are 7k/15k. UTG makes it 55k to go. Folds around to the SB who says, "call" then completes his SB to 15k. Before BB acts, the raise is brought to his attention.

SB then returns his bet to 7k and folds his cards into the loose muck (on top and identifiable).

UTG (raiser) asks for a ruling.

Floor?

in a home game, I would keep it friendly and let them pull the bet back. If they keep doing it, I would make it binding to help them pay attention better

 

[Max D]

I agree home game should stay friendly especially if the player doesn't do that regularly. But if you are stickler and the card a retrievable I would rule it a call, if the card are not retrievable (as indicated) I would not have him have pay the 55K, but I would have him leave the $15K he originally put into the pot.

 

[BGinGA]

His action is correct if you are following RROP.

13. A player who bets or calls by releasing chips into the pot is bound by that action and must make the amount of the wager correct. (This also applies right before the showdown when putting chips into the pot causes the opponent to show the winning hand before the full amount needed to call has been put into the pot.) However, if you are unaware that the pot has been raised, you may withdraw that money and reconsider your action, provided that no one else has acted after you. At pot-limit or no-limit betting, if there is a gross misunderstanding concerning the amount of the wager, see Section 14, Rule 8.

^This, although moose emphasized the rule written for (mostly fixed limit) cash play. For no-limit betting games, Section 14, Rule 12 gets a little more specifc (emphasis mine):

"12. Because the amount of a wager at big-bet poker has such a wide range, a player who has taken action based on a gross misunderstanding of the amount wagered may receive some protection by the decision-maker. A "call" or “raise” may be ruled not binding if it is obvious that the player grossly misunderstood the amount wagered, provided no damage has been caused by that action. Example: Player A bets $300, player B reraises to $1200, and Player C puts $300 into the pot and says, “call.” It is obvious that player C believes the bet to be only $300 and he should be allowed to withdraw his $300 and reconsider his wager. A bettor should not show down a hand until the amount put into the pot for a call seems reasonably correct, or it is obvious that the caller understands the amount wagered. The decision-maker is allowed considerable discretion in ruling on this type of situation. A possible rule-of-thumb is to disallow any claim of not understanding the amount wagered if the caller has put eighty percent or more of that amount into the pot.

Example: On the end, a player puts a $500 chip into the pot and says softly, “Four hundred.” The opponent puts a $100 chip into the pot and says, “Call.” The bettor immediately shows the hand. The dealer says, “He bet four hundred.” The caller says, “Oh, I thought he bet a hundred.” In this case, the recommended ruling normally is that the bettor had an obligation to not show the hand when the amount put into the pot was obviously short, and the “call” can be retracted. Note that the character of each player can be a factor. (Unfortunately, situations can arise at big-bet poker that are not so clear-cut as this.)"


Our local rule book (RRoP and TDA compliant) simply states:

"A player who bets or calls by releasing chips into or towards the pot is bound by that action and must make the amount of the wager correct. However, if the player is unaware that the pot has been raised, the player may withdraw the wager and reconsider the action, provided that no one else has subsequently acted."


In the OP's situation, I'd rule it as a gross misunderstanding of the call amount and subsequent retraction and fold by the small blind player. Action on big blind player.

 

[WedgeRock]

So it was ruled a call because of the verbal statement. So the SB put the 55k in the pot and pulled his cards out.

Raiser then called for the floor again because the SB's cards had hit the muck.

Before the floor made it over, the SB re-folded his cards and left the 55k in the pot.

I agree with that majority of the replies that it should have been allowed because SB was not aware of the raise. Give him a warning at most.

Karma got the raiser in the end. He took a massive chipstack to the final table and ended up min cashing in 4th while the SB chopped 1st and 2nd place and ended up winning first place points...