Tourney Tournament payouts + rebuys (1 Viewer)

[bsdunbar1]

I am relatively sure I know the answer to this but before I spew facts, I want to make sure I know the facts.

Are rebuys counted in the # of players for payouts?

Say you payout 4 spots for 20 players and 5 spots for 25 players.
If your game has 21 players + 5 rebuys do you pay 4 spots or 5?

 

[msuroo]

We had a big debate over this with our crew - I can see arguments for either way, but we ended up paying out based on number of players (rather than the number of buyins). In your example, paying 4 spots.

 

[Highli99]

In home game is say players not buy ins. Hyperbole can explain logic. If someone rebought 200 times what does your payout look like?

 

[bsdunbar1]

I eventually found this thread -

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...rebuys-rather-than-of-players-opinions.32119/

 

[Frogzilla]

I believe the standard is reentry (like many casino tourneys) yes, counted and might increase # of payouts. Rebuys, where you keep your seat, the payout spots would be fixed

If you are paying a lot of places (20%ish) like most home game setups I’d probably keep it to # of players to keep it simple

 

[DarkHelmet55]

I guess I am doing it wrong then. Everyone seems to do it by players and not total buy ins. I spread the wealth a little more. The tournament is only the warm up for the cash games that follow anyway. Giving more players a little of the tourney pool to bring to the cash game works out much better.

 

[BGinGA]

I typically count entries/buy-ins (vs bodies), but cap it at half field size minus one. So if it's scheduled to pay 25% of the field, with 12 players (pays 3 places if no re-buys), the maximum number of payouts would be 5 (12/2 - 1) regardless of how high the re-buy count. I never pay half the field.

 

[BGinGA]

If someone rebought 200 times what does your payout look like?

See above. There are pay caps.

 

[upNdown]

It’s your tournament; do what you want.
In the casinos I’ve played in, a rebuy you make from your seat doesn’t not increase the number of payouts. A re-entry, where you go to the window and get assigned a new seat does increase the number of payouts.

 

[CrazyEddie]

What's the practical difference between a rebuy and a re-entry? "You get moved to a different seat" doesn't seem like it particularly matters, and otherwise the two seem to have the same effect - pay some money and get some chips and keep playing.

 

[upNdown]

What's the practical difference between a rebuy and a re-entry? "You get moved to a different seat" doesn't seem like it particularly matters, and otherwise the two seem to have the same effect - pay some money and get some chips and keep playing.

With re-entries, the house takes the same rake. Very often, re-buys are unraked. And aside from what's already mentioned, I dunno, I think that's it.
(And getting moved to a new seat usually sucks)

 

[moose]

I typically count entries/buy-ins (vs bodies), but cap it at half field size minus one. So if it's scheduled to pay 25% of the field, with 12 players (pays 3 places if no re-buys), the maximum number of payouts would be 5 (12/2 - 1) regardless of how high the re-buy count. I never pay half the field.

If someone rebuys then the prize pool increases for everyone and the payouts increase. If you subsequently increase the number of payouts based on rebuys then the payouts per person will decrease. This is totally unfair to the players that did not rebuy.

Imagine a tournament that is on the bubble and rebuys are still available. The bubble busts but he rebuys and suddenly the number of payouts increase and he is ITM with a shot at even higher payouts.

 

[BGinGA]

If someone rebuys then the prize pool increases for everyone and the payouts increase. If you subsequently increase the number of payouts based on rebuys then the payouts per person will decrease. This is totally unfair to the players that did not rebuy.

I'll have to chart this out in a spreadsheet to confirm, but I think your generalization (based on limited re-buys for a resticted time period with a cap on payouts) may not always be true.

 

[TexRex]

Here are our rules distinguishing the two. NTPG = North Texas Poker Group.

Re-Entry Tournament -- A Re-Entry tournament is one in which a player knocked out may re-enter the tournament within the time limit specified by the Tournament Director prior to the start of the tournament. A Re-Entry leaves his seat and enters again as a Late Registrant for seating, but receives a full stack. At the end of the registration period for all re-entry Events, Participants have the option to forfeit their current stack and pay to re-enter. WSOP 2019-13; NTPG

Re-Buy Tournament -- A Re-Buy tournament is one where re-buys are allowed within Registration Period specified by the Tournament Director prior to the start of the tournament. The Tournament Director will announce the re-buys, the amount of chips provided to the re-buy, and eligibility for re-buys. When a player is knocked out, he must re-buy prior to the next hand. When a player re-buys, he keeps his existing seat and receives a full stack. NTPG

In a casino, a re-entry is typically treated in every respect as a new player meaning that if 1 more player = 1 more payout spot, the number of paid places goes up. We do not follow that part of the casino rule. We pay by unique players. We don't require a re-entry to immediately decide whether to re-enter, but do require that in a re-buy. We don't rake stacks.

There can be several variations, but for us, it's [1] does he keep the same seat and [2] must he re-buy before the next hand. If the answer to both is yes, we call it a re-buy. If the answer to both is no, we call it a re-entry. Either way to us, it doesn't change the number of unique players and thus doesn't change the number of payouts.

 

[T_Chan]

We just do freeze outs.

 

[Mr Winberg]

If someone rebuys then the prize pool increases for everyone and the payouts increase. If you subsequently increase the number of payouts based on rebuys then the payouts per person will decrease. This is totally unfair to the players that did not rebuy.

Imagine a tournament that is on the bubble and rebuys are still available. The bubble busts but he rebuys and suddenly the number of payouts increase and he is ITM with a shot at even higher payouts.

I'll have to chart this out in a spreadsheet to confirm, but I think your generalization (based on limited re-buys for a resticted time period with a cap on payouts) may not always be true.

Regarding payouts per person decreasing, this can be fully avoided if instead of percentages you have a list of payouts per person for each nr of buy-ins (where payouts never decrease). Example $20 buyins:
16: $150, $90, $50, $30
17: $150, $90, $50, $30, $20
18: etc...

And regarding the bubble scenario, I think there are greater issues than the payout sizes if a tournament allows rebuys around the bubble. I know there are a bunch of different types of tournaments out there, but IMO the rebuy period should end long before the bubble. I like to end it somewhere around where the startingstack is 25-30-ish BBs.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

For a single table, I'd probably keep the number of itm and increase the prizes for one main reason make a rebuy worth.
Example. 10 players, $10 buyin, payouts : 50/30/20%
If 6 rebuys, the prize pool would be 160.
I prefer to stick to 50/30/20 so that the prizes are $80, $50 and $30 rather than adding a 4th itm so that the prizes are still interesting for a player who rebought once (putting $20 in the prize pool) or even twice (putting $30 in the prize pool).

 

[moose]

Regarding payouts per person decreasing, this can be fully avoided if instead of percentages you have a list of payouts per person for each nr of buy-ins (where payouts never decrease). Example $20 buyins:
16: $150, $90, $50, $30
17: $150, $90, $50, $30, $20
18: etc...

And regarding the bubble scenario, I think there are greater issues than the payout sizes if a tournament allows rebuys around the bubble. I know there are a bunch of different types of tournaments out there, but IMO the rebuy period should end long before the bubble. I like to end it somewhere around where the startingstack is 25-30-ish BBs.

I was using it as an extreme example to illustrate that changing the number of payouts based on rebuys is unfair to those remaining in the tournament.

 

[BearMetal]

It’s your tournament; do what you want.
In the casinos I’ve played in, a rebuy you make from your seat doesn’t not increase the number of payouts. A re-entry, where you go to the window and get assigned a new seat does increase the number of payouts.

In a casino, are there different times when rebuys end vs. when re-entry ends? Do tournaments have both options? I would think that re-entry would always count towards # of players while a rebuy would not.

 

[JustinInMN]

At my local room, (at least pre covid) all tournament became re-entry except for one weekly tournament that was designated as a "one shot only."

Payouts are based on entries. They have made this a pretty standard practice as opposed to everyone saying playing on players is still standard. Either works so long as the players know in advance.

 

[DoubleEagle]

WSOP stopped doing re-buy tournaments several years ago. Seemed to be a problem with floor people collecting the re-buy money and not all of it getting to the cashier. Only re-entries now, with each re-entry counting as a separate player.