Tournament hand - how would you play it? (1 Viewer)

grelco

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Multi table live tournament. Starting stack 20k, 15 min blinds. Down to 12 players, so playing 6 handed. Blinds are 2k/4k with a BB ante so 10k in blinds each trip around the table. Going up to 2.5k/5k shortly.

I am SB with 50k chips. BB to my left is playing extremely tight. 3 players call for 4k. I have 79 of clubs.

What's the play?
 
Do you have any information about the other players? Stack sizes, play style, etc?
 
Shove or fold
Push/fold chart with this information is a clear shove.

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I appreciate that. In the moment I considered shoving but instead raised to 15k. BB shoved for 25k total, other 3 folded. I called of course, he had K8 of clubs and nothing happened, so he won with K high.
 
Multi table live tournament. Starting stack 20k, 15 min blinds. Down to 12 players, so playing 6 handed. Blinds are 2k/4k with a BB ante so 10k in blinds each trip around the table. Going up to 2.5k/5k shortly.

I am SB with 50k chips. BB to my left is playing extremely tight. 3 players call for 4k. I have 79 of clubs.

What's the play?
Fold
 
Dammit. Wish you would have let this one play out. I don’t think this is a shove or fold situation.

While I see that @krafticus shove/fold chart says shove, I’m not sure I completely agree with it. Either way, sucks that you lost.
 
Dammit. Wish you would have let this one play out. I don’t think this is a shove or fold situation.

While I see that @krafticus shove/fold chart says shove, I’m not sure I completely agree with it. Either way, sucks that you lost.
But with 50k, a shove here most likely gets K8 to fold, whereas a 15k bet into a 18k pot where the BB has already committed 8k won’t. I’d also defend my BB with K8 suited. By shoving, you increase your stack size by almost 36%

Also, what was the flop, and did you check it down? Did you fire on the flop?

Edit… long day. So BB has 6BB and will probably get it all-in with that hand all the time. Bad run out, If you do shove, he has a tougher decision. It will still mostly end the same way
 
Multi table live tournament. Starting stack 20k, 15 min blinds. Down to 12 players, so playing 6 handed. Blinds are 2k/4k with a BB ante so 10k in blinds each trip around the table. Going up to 2.5k/5k shortly.

I am SB with 50k chips. BB to my left is playing extremely tight. 3 players call for 4k. I have 79 of clubs.

What's the play?
If the BB is extremely tight I could actually see justifying a call here being laid 9-1, planning to shove out of the gate on a lot of flops. Particularly those that lack broadway cards. I would hesitate about a shove pre here even with a tight BB with 3 players already showing interest in the pot, anyone that calls will have 97s in bad shape. That said with it about to be 12.5K per round, hero will have to shove one of the 3 next hands, one would assume.

I would probably take the line above. Heads up with a tight BB, this is a shove all day, the three limpers complicate matters.

So I am on Call > Fold > Shove personally.
 
If the BB is extremely tight I could actually see justifying a call here being laid 9-1, planning to shove out of the gate on a lot of flops. Particularly those that lack broadway cards. I would hesitate about a shove pre here even with a tight BB with 3 players already showing interest in the pot, anyone that calls will have 97s in bad shape. That said with it about to be 12.5K per round, hero will have to shove one of the 3 next hands, one would assume.

I would probably take the line above. Heads up with a tight BB, this is a shove all day, the three limpers complicate matters.

So I am on Call > Fold > Shove personally.
I feel like we need more information on players. I can get behind a call here or a min raise to 8K. If BB is tight, he’s probably folding to a raise and we can lay down to a shove.

The raise to 15K into someone with only 25K essentially leaves him with no option but to shove his marginal hands once he limps at which point we cannot fold our hand once he shoves.

I just think it’s a tough decision when we don’t know all the details.
 
If the BB is extremely tight I could actually see justifying a call here being laid 9-1, planning to shove out of the gate on a lot of flops. Particularly those that lack broadway cards. I would hesitate about a shove pre here even with a tight BB with 3 players already showing interest in the pot, anyone that calls will have 97s in bad shape. That said with it about to be 12.5K per round, hero will have to shove one of the 3 next hands, one would assume.

I would probably take the line above. Heads up with a tight BB, this is a shove all day, the three limpers complicate matters.

So I am on Call > Fold > Shove personally.
But if they are limping in early position, chances are they aren’t calling 50k unless setting up a trap. If so, GG.

I’ve been doing some studying recent and it’s all starting to make a lot more sense to me
 
But with 50k, a shove here most likely gets K8 to fold, whereas a 15k bet into a 18k pot where the BB has already committed 8k won’t. I’d also defend my BB with K8 suited. By shoving, you increase your stack size by almost 36%

Also, what was the flop, and did you check it down? Did you fire on the flop?

Edit… long day. So BB has 6BB and will probably get it all-in with that hand all the time. Bad run out, If you do shove, he has a tougher decision. It will still mostly end the same way
They got it in pre apparently.

Yes, we get K8 to fold, but if we are playing with the cards face up, the choices are easy. Lol. We don’t know anything about the players or even an idea of their ranges without having some level of information about them. We don’t even know what position they are in to even have an idea about the ranges of cards they are playing.
 
I appreciate that. In the moment I considered shoving but instead raised to 15k. BB shoved for 25k total, other 3 folded. I called of course, he had K8 of clubs and nothing happened, so he won with K high.
Now that I have seen this, I wonder if the call and then shove would have worked.
 
The players that limped - this is not common. I'm not sure we had more than a couple limped hands all tournament to that point. I was confident that I was stealing the blinds with the raise, and maybe could catch a call. I was very confident the BB would fold because he was folding previously to hands that he should have called with any 2 cards. So I was wrong on that one.

What was the flop? I think it was a rainbow something like 2-6-J. Turn probably a 3, it didn't give me a chance whatever it was. And actually the river was an 8 now that I think of it, although it didn't matter.
 
My main concern with the shove is that we are still going to offer all the limpers a pretty good price on a call. I count 3 limpers at 4k, BBA 4k, BB 4k = 20K, and we are going to make it 50K to go meaning 70k in the pot and 46K for any of 4 players to call. there is almost no fold equity, Someone that's limped is going to find the call button getting about 3-2. So to me that automatically makes fold > shove, my only question is where does call fit in. And being left with 46k after a limp and fold, given the read that we are 100% sure BB is going to check behind without a monster, makes me think the call and evaluate is a decent answer here.
 
I like call & evaluate personally in retrospect. And given the table dynamics, I probably should have been a bit more patient. But I thought I was getting a good price to try to make everyone, or at least most of them fold.
 
In most tournaments I'm going to lean call here because BB will not raise enough to force you to fold.
 
At a six-handed table, three players limp and the BB is yet to act?

If you call, the BB could shove and you probably have to fold.

If you call, and the BB checks, you’re 5-way with a really speculative hand and not enough behind to make it pay if you hit the flop.

But say you flop some flush or straight draw… With that many opponents you might not even be drawing to a winner if you catch.

If you flop a 9 or 7, you still could easily be beat.

So what can you hope to flop? Two pair? Trips? That’s really, really unlikely.

If you shove pre, you’re almost certainly getting at least one call and it’s at best a flip. More likely you’re a 2:1 or worse dog.

I’d wait for a better spot.
 
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My initial thought was fold. Now looking at it again a week later, I’m still thinking fold.
It’s probably a pretty easy shove too, but I guess I’d rather have more of a feel for the other opponents and their stack sizes before I say definitely shove.
 
With three limpers and the BB behind, this isn’t as obvious a shoving spot. Heads up? Sure. Potentially five-way? 97s has very little equity fiveway.

Hero will be the big blind next hand. If he doesn’t have a real shoving hand, I would say he has another two orbits to hang on and find a better spot before he gets truly desperate.
 
You need something with a little more showdown value and a little blocking value wouldn't hurt. A3 and I'd be thinking of shoving, 66 and I'd shove, KQo, KTs - those types of hands. I;m not shoving with anything here. Too many mid pairs just limp then look you up.
 

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