Tournament hand - Family game

Discussion in 'Poker Strategy' started by krafticus, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Nov 11, 2017 at 1:18 AM
    #1
    krafticus

    krafticus Flush

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    from time to time, I play in my cousins home game. 10k Tournament starting at 25/50 blinds. The buy in is $20, and there are no rebuys.

    Most of the players are older, and just enjoy the social aspect. To some AA is just as good as 86 off suit. Many players love to limp and play many, MANY hands. Outside of @Chippy McChiperson and @kirchhausen when they play, there isn’t much 3-betting or calculating pot sizes and such.

    Hero has a good win rate at the game, and outside of the 2 mentioned above, can be one of The more aggressive players.

    We have just combined to the final table. There were 14 players, and are now down to 9. Average stack is around 15k.

    Blinds are now 500/1000. Hero has a stack of 12,500 to start the hand. Hero is on the button. There are now 5 limpers in front of hero, who has 56o. The guys in the blinds are generally not the pre-flop raising type, usually.

    Should hero limp with the rest of the table and hope to catch something good? Should hero jam and steal the blinds (although, many of These players are known to call large all-ins with small pocket pairs, any ace, or hell, any fave card). Should hero just fold ?

    What is hero’s play?
     
  2. Nov 11, 2017 at 2:05 AM
    #2
    DrStrange

    DrStrange Full House

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    Hero’s “M” is nine. It is not panic time, but Hero should be concerned about his future.

    Fold >> limp >>>>>>>> jam.

    This is a snap fold for me. Other actions never ever cross my mind in a serious way. The table is passive but sticky. Hero stands to be called way too often and every time Hero gets called he is behind.

    hero has Time to be patient. Toss those losers in the muck and wait till better cards come your way.

    DrStrange
     
  3. Nov 11, 2017 at 3:05 AM
    #3
    Jimulacrum

    Jimulacrum Tourney Director

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    I agree with DrStrange. This is an insta-fold.

    Limping is out of the question; you're just not deep enough to have the implied odds necessary to play this hand speculatively. And with five limpers (plus the blinds!), many of whom are loose players who will call very wide, shoving would be unwise too. You'll often get called, and you'll almost always be behind. A coin flip would be rare and about the best you can hope for. Any raise smaller than shoving would be silly. Folding is the only option.

    There's an additional upside to folding: it lets the other players duke it out in a pot that may well get one or more players all-in. You gain every time someone else busts out, so sit back and let it happen.
     
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  4. Nov 11, 2017 at 5:17 AM
    #4
    Gunnar

    Gunnar Pair Site Vendor

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    Fold
     
  5. Nov 11, 2017 at 12:36 PM
    #5
    kirchhausen

    kirchhausen 3 of a Kind

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    In this game, with @Chippy McChiperson and me not there, a shove will almost always get through. Unless barb was a limper, she never limps light like the rest and will often limp with hands as good as QQ.
     
  6. Nov 11, 2017 at 12:42 PM
    #6
    krafticus

    krafticus Flush

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    Okay.. yeah... I probably should have folded. I was thinking since I have the button and I hit something good, I would get paid off by anything That remotely hits the board. (We’ve seen pocket 3’s call every bet on a AKJ 10 8 board before).

    Anyway, I called. Small blind competes. BB now shoves for a total of 4200. All of the limpers have now called the raise. There is now 27k in the pot, and it is 3200 more to me.

    Does the math say I should call at this point?
     
  7. Nov 11, 2017 at 1:11 PM
    #7
    Ellasdaddy

    Ellasdaddy 3 of a Kind

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    I’d gamble.
     
  8. Nov 11, 2017 at 1:15 PM
    #8
    BGinGA

    BGinGA Tourney Director

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    Hang onto your eleven-five.
     
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  9. Nov 11, 2017 at 1:18 PM
    #9
    kirchhausen

    kirchhausen 3 of a Kind

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    Certainly can't jam now, no fold equity with this crew now that they've called the 4200.

    You are getting good odds, and you have position. and normally with a hand like yours you would likely have live cards but with this crew who the hell knows.

    As played if I'm playing well I fold and if I'm ultra gambly I might call here, knowing with only 8k behind I have to either smash the flop or fold. Furthermore, any subsequent hands with only 8k are jam or fold till I double up or go home.
     
  10. Nov 11, 2017 at 10:15 PM
    #10
    onerand

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    insane pot odds now, but, yes, fold from the start
     
  11. Nov 12, 2017 at 12:44 AM
    #11
    justsomedude

    justsomedude Full House

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    Jam every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

    4, 7, 8 flop is coming. I can smell it.
     
  12. Nov 12, 2017 at 1:42 AM
    #12
    BGinGA

    BGinGA Tourney Director

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    Followed by 9 T, filling out villain's KJ hand. :(
     
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  13. Nov 12, 2017 at 3:26 AM
    #13
    Pinball

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    If I think right shove is best. (not knowing payout structure)

    I estimate that only a hand rang of 40% (very loose in my opinion) will call.

    Vs this rang we win over 35%.

    so in 60% we win 6500
    in 14% we win 4700
    and in 26% we lose our 12‘500
     
  14. Nov 12, 2017 at 4:36 AM
    #14
    DrStrange

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    Hero makes two pair or better on the flop less than 2 percent of the time. Toss in a generous 3 percent for an open end draw with 30 percent equity.

    What is hero’s plan when he whiffs the flop or makes bottom pair? 95% fold seems like a poor way to handle his precious few chips. But with the all-in villain looming, hero can’tjam on air and pray for folds because he is way behind the high card held by the all-in.

    The “good” pot odds are a mirage. Hero has only wasted 1 Big blind so far, let’s not make matters worse by continuing with the hand.

    DrStrange
     
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  15. Nov 12, 2017 at 8:31 AM
    #15
    Pinball

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    This is my preflop opinion
     
  16. Nov 26, 2017 at 5:53 PM
    #16
    pedrofisk

    pedrofisk 3 of a Kind

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    Agreed, thinking in pure pot odds here is too much cash game thinking. I think even Doug Polk would advise this is not a straight math situation.

    I would fold both preflop betting rounds with the limited information. There are tournament questions you should be asking yourself too.

    #1 What is the range of the raiser?
    #2 What is the calling range of the remaining potential callers?
    #3 Do you have a better shot at winning if certain villains are knocked out in this hand?
    #3 How much does getting out of the way help improve your potential pay out verse anticipated profit from this hand?

    and so forth.
     
  17. Nov 26, 2017 at 6:00 PM
    #17
    krafticus

    krafticus Flush

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    Forgot about this thread.

    So, I played the hand very poorly. I called the raise with my 56. The flop comes out K 9 5.

    UTG now shoves for 2200 total, folds to the player on my right, who reshoves for 2800 total. At this point, I say F’it and call. The original all in has AQ, UTG has K4 off, player on my right has K 10. Turn is a 7, river is a 6 giving me 2 pair and a scoop. I went on to win the tournament.

    Mark
     
  18. Nov 26, 2017 at 6:01 PM
    #18
    pedrofisk

    pedrofisk 3 of a Kind

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    Well, they call it gambling for a reason.
     
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  19. Nov 26, 2017 at 7:17 PM
    #19
    upNdown

    upNdown Full House

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    As Daniel like to say, results don’t matter
     
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  20. Dec 5, 2017 at 9:23 AM
    #20
    Steve Birrer

    Steve Birrer High Hand

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    Calling there is a donkey play and yes donkeys get paid off too frequently. Results don't matter. Bad play. You got lucky. As already stated, that's why its called gambling.
     
  21. Dec 5, 2017 at 10:40 AM
    #21
    Mojo1312

    Mojo1312 Two Pair

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    Or as Phil Hellmuth is fond of saying: "If it weren't for luck, I would win every time!"
     
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