Tough spot with AA UTG (1 Viewer)

[Beakertwang]

Playing Mavens .5/1 NLHE game.

Villain 1 I would consider solid TAG. Villain 2 is LAG, a winning player, pretty crafty. He's willing to make big plays, but is not a maniac.

Hand #168445-141 - 2021-02-06 03:06:22
Game: NL Hold'em ($50 - 300) - Blinds 0.50/1
Site: Club 875 Poker Room
Table: Worm's Game #2 (NLHE)
SB (120)
SB(149.25)
Hero (542.50)
Villain 1 (127.50)
UTG2 (249.75)
MP (313.25)
MP1 (326)
Villain 2 (300)
CO (211.50)
BTN (120)


I have . I open to $4, which is pretty standard for me. V1 calls, MP calls, V2 calls, BB completes.

Pot $20.50

Flop

BB checks.

Action on hero.

 

[Kain8]

Fold pre. trolololol

 

[JMC9389]

I'd bet half pot. That usually gets high connecting hands like AK, KQ, QJ, J10 out.

I don't think you're up against anything spectacular here in the absence of a three bet preflop here. Diamond draws will call unless one villain flatted with a low pocket pair and binked a flopped set. In which case they'll probably flat any bet size and take you to value town on the next streets.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I'd like a bet of $12-15 here.

 

[Senzrock]

I'd bet half pot. That usually gets high connecting hands like AK, KQ, QJ, J10 out.

I don't think you're up against anything spectacular here in the absence of a three bet preflop here. Diamond draws will call unless one villain flatted with a low pocket pair and binked a flopped set. In which case they'll probably flat any bet size and take you to value town on the next streets.

You don’t actually want those hands (AK/KQ etc) out though. Those hands are drawing dead against us. I actually like a large bet here, both because the pot is already bloated, but also because there are a lot of draws (Diamonds, A5, 75s etc) on this board. I think 2/3 or even a cheeky over bet could be interesting depending on how you are viewed at the table.

 

[markleteenie]

All in pre.

Edit: real answer probably just above half pot:$12

 

[Perthmike]

$10

 

[FDLmold]

I stink at NLHE. Does a $25 bet do anything different here that a $10 bet? Sets are going nowhere, and big diamond draws aren't either. How about a $7 bet? We are deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep, and have a pair. Chances are probably at least 70% that at least one of our opponents caught something he/she liked on that flop.

 

[RainmanTrail]

You want to keep overcards and smaller overpairs in the hand with you to help pay you odds for when you run into a big hand on a draw heavy low board like this. Don't overbet it, but also don't give out free cards. I'd lean toward the $10-12 range here for pot control purposes. You should assume you have the best hand until the action tells you otherwise.

I would respect any raises though. That doesn't mean I'm folding to any raise, but I'd respect it. If the action gets big, particularly multiway or from a nitty player, then I'll find the muck. But you should be looking to hold your ground for at least a good punch or two, then reevaluate depending on what lands on the turn. If the turn is after getting action on that flop though, be ready to let it go.

 

[Eriks]

With 4 opponants in the hand you probably shouldn’t label only two of them as ”villain” as that indicates that the other two are folding the flop. Don’t know but it may influence answers, especially since MP will have a lot of small pocket pairs and suited Axs in his range. And BB can have a very wide range getting such a great price pre, including 2-pairs, flush and straight draws. And now we know not to worry about them.

That said, I’m betting around half pot. I’m guessing we can have all the sets as well playing this deep so it’s not like we’re capped at 1-pair hands.

 

[CraigT78]

I bet pot, to find out where I'm at. Either I'm winning it all, or someone calls and I have to think.

 

[RainmanTrail]

I bet pot, to find out where I'm at. Either I'm winning it all, or someone calls and I have to think.

Seat open

 

[davin]

You always overpot this Andrew come on

 

[Legend5555]

This deep (against V2 at least) on this board, I'm not looking to go to crazy. It's multiway, so in theory we don't have to bet that large to get the point across, especially since we are betting into 3 other people. The board is somewhat connected though, and any diamond, 3, 5, 7, 8 if going to be tough to play oop.

I think a bet anywhere from $7-12 makes sense. There are plenty of hands that are going to call even though they probably shouldn't. For example, any pocket pair is probably calling even though something like 77 from from V1 should really fold facing your bet with 3 to act behind. Not having the Ad is good here since it means the nut flush draw is available.

If we get raised, it's going to be uncomfortable as every set (though at least not all the 2 pairs) is available to our opponents. And there are plenty of flush draws too. I'm less concerned about straights or straight draws as the only straight is 35 and the only two straight draws is 57. And both of those would seen pretty suspect from anyone except the BB.

 

[CHP TD]

You already have too many people in the hand. Aces against 3 opponents is just a terrible result.

Anyway onto the question.

You should bet, and you will bet - but - you will get everyone out but the one you want out. But 3/4 of the pot means that any drawing hand is making a mistake. So id go $15.

then comes the turn... then what?

Did you want 3 callers?

This is gonna hurt...

 

[mipevi]

Your range doesn’t hit this board, the pot is multiway and you are deep with a competent LAG having position. I check.

 

[Legend5555]

Your range doesn’t hit this board, the pot is multiway and you are deep with a competent LAG having position. I check.

I think this is an acceptable alternative to my line given the nature of this hand. Obviously is we check and there is a bet and raise, we can fairly safely just get out of the way. Just a single bet or bet and a call? We can call and evaluate.

 

[Eriks]

I think this is an acceptable alternative to my line given the nature of this hand. Obviously is we check and there is a bet and raise, we can fairly safely just get out of the way. Just a single bet or bet and a call? We can call and evaluate.

I agree to an extent, if we check and the action goes bet/raise or worse we can fold, sure. But if it goes bet/call and we just overcall our range is pretty capped, and a good aggressive opponant can exploit that, especially this deep. Similarly, if we were to take the check line with a set to balance (presumably to check raise) we look strong as hell. All in all, I prefer to lead myself.

 

[boltonguy]

Heads up I would bet 3/4 pot, multi-way I tend to size down so between 1/3 and 1/2 pot or $8

 

[TheWhiteJZ]

Bet and fold to any aggression. Your issue is that you are face up. Everyone knows you play AA+ from early to mid position.

Jk. I continue with my standard half pot. You’re likely ahead here and need to charge any draws and get value from lower pairs. Slow down and check call on a connecting turn, keep firing on any non-diamond Broadway.

 

[boltonguy]

I would add that 35s is one of my favorite hands to flat in late position lately when I don’t think I’ll get squeezed out.

 

[mipevi]

Our range just doesn't hit that board, UTG ten-handed I'm assuming hero can't have even 66 (if he can, that changes things a little). Top of our range is big pairs and overs with nut flush draw, and big pairs can't really stand any heat. If we bet those and check everything else, our checks become super weak, and we are always check/folding. But if leading out, I think our bet just needs to be really small, like 1/4-1/3 pot.

 

[Eriks]

Our range just doesn't hit that board, UTG ten-handed I'm assuming hero can't have even 66 (if he can, that changes things a little). Top of our range is big pairs and overs with nut flush draw, and big pairs can't really stand any heat. If we bet those and check everything else, our checks become super weak, and we are always check/folding. But if leading out, I think our bet just needs to be really small, like 1/4-1/3 pot.

With hero being 200+ bbs deep with half the table I’m certainly playing 66, 44 and maybe 22. I don’t play full ring though, so maybe that’s bad?

 

[mipevi]

@Eriks No idea, I play PLO and in that game all hands are shit in full ring OOP 200+ bbs deep.

But yeah, if hero's range is super wide, go ahead and bet (small).

 

[JMC9389]

You want to keep overcards and smaller overpairs in the hand with you to help pay you odds for when you run into a big hand on a draw heavy low board like this. Don't overbet it, but also don't give out free cards. I'd lean toward the $10-12 range here for pot control purposes. You should assume you have the best hand until the action tells you otherwise.

I would respect any raises though. That doesn't mean I'm folding to any raise, but I'd respect it. If the action gets big, particularly multiway or from a nitty player, then I'll find the muck. But you should be looking to hold your ground for at least a good punch or two, then reevaluate depending on what lands on the turn. If the turn is after getting action on that flop though, be ready to let it go.

This is true. I suppose my point is that going into a hand with aces five ways is already trouble. On a draw heavy board like that, my mentality is that I want to get anyone else that's not on a draw out of the hand.

 

[Senzrock]

Your range doesn’t hit this board, the pot is multiway and you are deep with a competent LAG having position. I check.

Correct, our range doesn’t hit this board, which is yet *another reason* to bet. You will have at least 1 non-believer (“he aways has AK in this spot” and the value will be gotten on the flop most likely as future significant action probably doesn’t bode well for your overpair. Into multiple players, I’m never checking here, just too much that can get there, I’m getting value and looking to play this spot HU heading to the turn.

 

[Ben8257]

Damn I am a conservative player and agree with @CraigT78 let's pot and see where we are! Seems like the $7/$12 bet here will allow the draws looking at the pot size to stay around. Personally I want to end this if possible.

@DrStrange lots of great takes here but as always curious your opinion.

 

[DrStrange]

I do have an opinion. Let's say I am not with the program.

Playing UTG and deep. The table seems loose, competent and dangerous

Preflop: Hero can easily limp aces. If it gets limped around, fine Hero is set mining. If someone raises, Hero is 3-betting. A simple raise is acceptable, but Hero will be wading a field of land mines post flop with a high SPR and a lot of players to beat.

Flop: Ok, so Hero raises and half the table comes along for the ride. I suggest Hero needs to be thinking check/fold. Really. Maybe check/call - but then what to do on future streets?

This sounds really craven - even for Old Man Coffee. What gives? The board is terrible for aces multiway. The ranges of hands in play are wide, or rather W I D E. Hero has no idea where his hand ranks. Could be aces are ahead vs all sorts of draws. Could be racing vs pair + draw hands. Could be crushed vs sets or the rare flopped straight. And most important - Hero is playing deep and out of position.

I am not letting Hero take the bait. Let's check. And seriously, thinking fold to a raise. But for sure folding to multiway action or further action on the turn.

Cluck, cluck, cluck call me a big chicken -=- DrStrange

 

[Legend5555]

Damn I am a conservative player and agree with @CraigT78 let's pot and see where we are! Seems like the $7/$12 bet here will allow the draws looking at the pot size to stay around. Personally I want to end this if possible.

@DrStrange lots of great takes here but as always curious your opinion.

It's a fallacy that you want to bet larger to deny draws equity. You have to take your opponents entire range into account. If you knew they always had a draw, then sure, bet larger. But especially in multi way action betting large just torches money against the made hands. If you plan is to pot and can it if vs the shortest stack here, I hate that line. If you pot and get called twice, then what? Check/fold, check/call, bet/fold, bet/call? All those lines suck now that you have bloated the pot OOP with a pot bet on the flop.

 

[jja412]

I do have an opinion. Let's say I am not with the program.

Playing UTG and deep. The table seems loose, competent and dangerous

Preflop: Hero can easily limp aces. If it gets limped around, fine Hero is set mining. If someone raises, Hero is 3-betting. A simple raise is acceptable, but Hero will be wading a field of land mines post flop with a high SPR and a lot of players to beat.

Flop: Ok, so Hero raises and half the table comes along for the ride. I suggest Hero needs to be thinking check/fold. Really. Maybe check/call - but then what to do on future streets?

This sounds really craven - even for Old Man Coffee. What gives? The board is terrible for aces multiway. The ranges of hands in play are wide, or rather W I D E. Hero has no idea where his hand ranks. Could be aces are ahead vs all sorts of draws. Could be racing vs pair + draw hands. Could be crushed vs sets or the rare flopped straight. And most important - Hero is playing deep and out of position.

I am not letting Hero take the bait. Let's check. And seriously, thinking fold to a raise. But for sure folding to multiway action or further action on the turn.

Cluck, cluck, cluck call me a big chicken -=- DrStrange

Chicken.