Thoughts on late cancellations and no shows? (1 Viewer)

For us, if we have 7 players ready to go and a 10 minute buffer is up the game starts. The late players are blinded in. No exceptions. When they show up and see their stacks have been picked away they usually understand. When they don't, tough shit. If the player is late and communicates why and it's a fair enough reason his chips still go in. But without any words or comments. Shit happens..god knows as a host I've been late for setup..:oops::rolleyes:
Now if someone is late and they show up with a coffee in their hand....that pisses off the masses for a couple reasons. You were late but still felt you should stop for coffee?? Even knowing that I spent my own money to have a keurig in the room??:mad:
 
I have 21 for tomorrow. My perpetual late guy says he is coming. Do I set up for 2 tables of 10, or 3 tables of 7???? Hmmm
 
krafticus said:
I have 21 for tomorrow. My perpetual late guy says he is coming. Do I set up for 2 tables of 10, or 3 tables of 7???? Hmmm
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Isn't that where the break always happens? Two tables or three. Optimal chipstacks or sub-optimal? Am I cooking for X or for Y?

I did have one couple that were great, but were often last-minute deciders. Then they hosted a game.

They have never made a last minute decision since. :cool:
 
Poker Zombie said:
Isn't that where the break always happens? Two tables or three. Optimal chipstacks or sub-optimal? Am I cooking for X or for Y?

I did have one couple that were great, but were often last-minute deciders. Then they hosted a game.

They have never made a last minute decision since. :cool:
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This should be a life requirement - trying to organize a social or volunteer thing. Makes you much more conscious.

That, and being a waiter/waitress.
 
MrCatPants said:
This should be a life requirement - trying to organize a social or volunteer thing. Makes you much more conscious.

That, and being a waiter/waitress.
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I’ve heard waiters and waitresses say that. Admittedly, I’ve never been a server, but I’m pretty sure all it really takes to be a good customer is not being a dick.
 
I’m always intrigued by these types of threads.

Lemonzest, a new game takes some effort to start, and remember it’s new for players too. If your game is at a regular time, players get used to it, but that’s not going to happen the first game or two. It sounds like you are on the right track.

WedgeRock, that works for a league, and I think that’s a great way to deal with it.

I had a recent experience that was most unusual. One player is reliable about letting me know whether she’s coming or not. Last month she committed, but was a no show, no notice. The next day she explained that when she got home from work, she took a nap, thought she set an alarm but didn’t, and slept for quite a while. It’s unlikely she could have arrived while our registration was still open (2 hours).

Here are the reasons I will ignore that:
  • It’s way out of character and is most likely a one-off situation.
  • She regularly volunteers to deal, and sometimes I’m scrambling for dealers. That night we were short because she didn’t show. However, some of our regulars didn't sign up that night, so I assume they couldn't come for some reason.
  • She’s a pleasant player and others like her.
  • She’s fun to have in the game.
  • She’s a net donator. In one sense, she’s one of our better customers and you don’t want to lose a good customer. You also don’t want to chase them away from being too hard-nosed.
I consider a player’s status and winner, average, or losing player. If a winner is flaky, it’s likely because he was able to get in another bigger game that was more important and doesn’t feel the need to notify you. That guy gets very little slack from me if he proves flaky. If his not showing up ever costs another player a seat, he’s likely to be off the list, but I’ve never had that come up. I did have a winning player in another game not show up after committing. He was removed from the list, but it was partly for other reasons as well.

An average or even a losing player may not be that committed to poker. There I consider their overall history and not one night.

I forgot who mentioned a player finding the highway full. I had someone really late one night because they didn’t know an alternate way to my house. In today’s GPS world, that seems strange to me, but if the only route they know is blocked, look at the rest of their history and find out if they know how to use an alternate way. Some years ago, there were 4 2-lane roads one could use to get to my house. When they were building, sometimes that created traffic nightmares. The player not knowing an alternate way has been coming for years, but only came one way. I believe her when she says she didn’t know an alternate route. Not everyone uses GPS.

Here’s two things I’ve seen that seem to work. Right now we have an “Early Bird Bonus” for players who are there on time. It’s 12.5% of the starting chips – enough to get someone’s attention. We do get started on time much better, but it’s probably cost me a player or two since our average attendance is down slightly after doing it.

A poker pro told me (and this was a cash game where one had to put $10,000 in cash on the table to play) they instituted a $5 fine for late players. Guys who would show up 2 hours late, probably saving themselves thousands of dollars, couldn’t stand being penalized and started showing up on time. His motivation for suggesting it was to make the game more profitable for him.

I prefer an on-time bonus to a penalty, but that’s really semantics. It’s two sides of the same coin.

Blinding players in (putting their blinds in the pot) gives the person to their left a big advantage. Blinding players out (removing their blinds from play) eliminates that problem. That really only works for tournaments though. I’ve found it doesn’t affect attendance because the amounts are low, but it also doesn’t make it easier to start on time.

You will get the kind of behavior your rules encourage. I played in a game where those who said they were coming but were late were blinded in even though they didn’t pay in advance. Those who they didn’t know they were coming got a full stack. Hmmm, I didn’t commit to coming, but almost always showed up. If I knew I couldn’t come, I informed the host, but they seemed to never catch on that they encouraged people to show up instead of commit.

Whatever you do, think of what it encourages.

It's great to hear what others do! I don't know that flakiness is worse today, but it may be.
 
TexRex said:
Blinding players in (putting their blinds in the pot) gives the person to their left a big advantage. Blinding players out (removing their blinds from play) eliminates that problem.
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There's some truth to this statement. But taking the chips out of the pot (and out of play) also changes the game. If SB is absent and BB posts and it folds back to him, he wins nothing? Having less dead money in the pot may dissuade someone from entering with a wider range.

There's no perfect solution.
 
The perfect solution - All players start with a full stack (per TDA rules). Let late players know it is disrespectful and disruptive to stop the game to buy in a late player. If they continue to arrive late, don't invite them - If they know it's disrespectful and disruptive and do it anyway, they don't belong.
 
Agree with most of what has been posted...but am a little surprised about some short leashes for players in yall's games. :confused:. I have hosted and been hosted and am on the side of things come up and if you have been pretty reliable in the past then I think a little slack is in order. Then again I haven't had a situation yet where I would immediately banish a player for a non notice the night of a game.

Having kids and a family things seem to come up more often than expected and I understand it is easy enough to send a text or make a call but sometimes stuff happens and you simply forget. I like a competitive game and am there to make money obviously, but I guess my games are a little more friendly than most with most players having known each other for several years.

Personally, If I am looking to play serious poker then I am going to play live at casino rather than home game in which banning players is norm, penalties for late arrival, raked games. Seems to be that in general if you are running your home game this tight then there may be several players at your games that you aren't as familiar with personally, which is absolutely fine just a little bit different than what I am used to in my home games. (y) :thumbsup:

Nonetheless it is very interesting to read all these posts and gain some perspective on the different types of games being held. Good luck in your hosting! @MrCatPants
 
WedgeRock said:
There is a no-show and late cancellation penalty (negative last place points) and also a rule that if you are being blinded off, you can win prize money but don't get any points for your finish. We had to institute that rule when a guy went all in and lost and despite having his opponent covered, got pissed and left. He has never been invited back and that was about 6 years ago.
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It was Ray. Remember it like it happened yesterday.
 
Azcat said:
It was Ray. Remember it like it happened yesterday.
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Yeah, Ray M. from Monroe, and not Ray S. (Ryder_8) from Newport.

Ryder_8 once drove to my house from Newport and upon arrival, he found out that the tournament started at 6 pm and not the typical 7 pm and that his chip stack had already been removed from play. Without a word, he left and drove 45 minutes home, blaming himself for not being aware of the start time change. Upstanding move, IMO. Though he rubs some people the wrong way, Ryder_8 is a good dude.
 
Tanner Kaza said:
Agree with most of what has been posted...but am a little surprised about some short leashes for players in yall's games. :confused:. I have hosted and been hosted and am on the side of things come up and if you have been pretty reliable in the past then I think a little slack is in order.
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Agreed. Could be some Internet hardassness and/or life nittiness here. Not all that uncommon on this site these days but hopefully the games will survive.
 
The problem is I usually only host a one table cash game. If a player commits and then no shows on a frequent basis he's taking a seat from someone else who wants to actually play the game.

I think I've taken two guys off for repeated no show no calls.
 
detroitdad said:
The problem is I usually only host a one table cash game. If a player commits and then no shows on a frequent basis he's taking a seat from someone else who wants to actually play the game.

I think I've taken two guys off for repeated no show no calls.
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Ya, despite some folks who like to claim otherwise :rolleyes: I don’t ban people from my game all too frequently. Maybe once where I had to take a friend and regular player aside, warn him repeatedly for douchey shenanigans. And when it didn’t stop, I simply stopped inviting him.

There have been a few instances of douchiness that has caused someone (not necessarily a consistent or regular player) to get dropped from the invite list. Got no time for douchebags. But with an invite list of 70+ Players, no one one misses an irregular DB or two.

Off the top of my head, one was the guy who bought drugs in route... second was a lady who tried to sneak someone else’s food out of my house, and the last I can remember was a guy who had two (in a row) no show, no calls for pretty big games, and had Uber lame excuses. Again, none of these people were especially frequent Players to my game. They just don’t get invited back. But over several years of regular hosting, this isn’t particularly frequent imho. Not that big a deal.
 
bergs said:
If someone is late once I usually let it go. If someone is late twice, I ask them to bask their legs in chicken gravy, and then I let lose the dogs. It's only happened once. God bless that stumpy bastard.
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Somehow, being pursued by Truman doesn't seem to be the world's worst fate...
 
TexRex said:
Blinding players in (putting their blinds in the pot) gives the person to their left a big advantage. Blinding players out (removing their blinds from play) eliminates that problem.
Click to expand...
WedgeRock said:
There's some truth to this statement. But taking the chips out of the pot (and out of play) also changes the game. If SB is absent and BB posts and it folds back to him, he wins nothing? Having less dead money in the pot may dissuade someone from entering with a wider range.
Click to expand...

That's not what he means. I suspect Tex is referring to the practice of having the absent/late player's stack in place on the table, but not dealing cards to that seat, nor have the seat post blinds in any actual hands -- so no hands are affected, and no pots are missing any chips. But the stack is still blinded off -- the blinds are removed from the stack (and permanently out of play) as the dealer button passes by. The net result is that play is not affected, and the late player ends up with an appropriately shorter stack when he arrives.

Best of both worlds -- the late player pays the appropriate blinds (like everyone else), and yet no active players gain a positional advantage because of the absence of a player. We use a 'reserved' button in front of the stack to remind the dealer to a) not deal cards to the seat, and b) pull the appropriate sb and bb amounts when the dealer button passes the seat. Works like a charm.
 
BG described the way we did it correctly. I'll add that what we did when the BB hit an empty seat (with the Reserve button in front of it), we removed both the SB and BB since the player couldn't enter into the SB anyway. That cut down the number of times we had to remove chips.

I also credit BG with explaining that system to me. We used it for over a year, but then went with the early bonus. The blinding was a better deal for the late player, but it didn't help us start earlier. The early bird bonus does.
 
BGinGA said:
That's not what he means. I suspect Tex is referring to the practice of having the absent/late player's stack in place on the table, but not dealing cards to that seat, nor have the seat post blinds in any actual hands -- so no hands are affected, and no pots are missing any chips. But the stack is still blinded off -- the blinds are removed from the stack (and permanently out of play) as the dealer button passes by. The net result is that play is not affected, and the late player ends up with an appropriately shorter stack when he arrives.

Best of both worlds -- the late player pays the appropriate blinds (like everyone else), and yet no active players gain a positional advantage because of the absence of a player. We use a 'reserved' button in front of the stack to remind the dealer to a) not deal cards to the seat, and b) pull the appropriate sb and bb amounts when the dealer button passes the seat. Works like a charm.
Click to expand...

Pics of the "Reserved" button please!

Not that we need (or would use a reserved button) but we frequently have players that are KO'ed that remain at the table. A little sign with "out" would be helpful (because teaching people to "deal to the chips" is an uphill battle).
 
Zombie, here's a couple of pics.

https://pokerchiplounge.com/reserve...MI7IiNkpe-1wIVEIRpCh0jBQrhEAQYASABEgJYj_D_BwE (1 1/8" I think)
http://texaspokersupply.com/store/reserved-button/ (2")

Players continuing to sit and watch seems to always cause dealers to at least deal to them sometimes. I think that's why most professional tournaments require players who are KO'd to leave. We didn't have that problem with a red button in front. Maybe that's what I need to do -- use my reserve buttons we are no longer using to put in front of players who are still sitting there. I'm not sure I want to spend money on "Out" buttons, but that might also be a way to deal with that problem.
 
Yeah, we just use the small plastic Reserved lammers, but I do seem to be amassing a small list of new additional buttons and chips to bring into the current collection of upscale, functional dealer, bounty, re-buy, seating, add-on, all-in, show'em (holiday fun tourney only), time, stfu, and pre-buy chips/buttons/plaques:

Reserved, Showdown/Betting, Skip, and No-Cards...... may be time for another OWPS order. Maybe a GTFO chip for players who won't leave the table after busting out. :)

Side note: There will never be a rabbit-hunt chip in use at my games.
 
GTFO.jpg
 
bergs said:
If someone is late once I usually let it go. If someone is late twice, I ask them to bask their legs in chicken gravy, and then I let lose the dogs. It's only happened once. God bless that stumpy bastard.
Click to expand...

That's a good one. I also like lighting the face on fire and putting it out with a hammer.
 
For those who cancel late or no show, they're moved to the bottom of the invite list for the next game - plain and simple. On the opposite end, those who aren't flaky are always invited first, whether they're new players or savvy amateurs.

As for cashing out early, I placed a minimum time before cashing out in my game. For example, the first hand is dealt a 8 PM, and the earliest you can cash out is 11 PM. Anytime after 11 PM is go as you please. We usually conclude at midnight.
 
RyGuy said:
As for cashing out early, I placed a minimum time before cashing out in my game. For example, the first hand is dealt a 8 PM, and the earliest you can cash out is 11 PM. Anytime after 11 PM is go as you please.
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Is this really an issue? I would hate to be obligated to stay if I'm hemorrhaging money. I would hate to tell a friend that they are my captive for the next 3 hours, if they leave I will have to ban them.

If your game is always full with a waiting list, you might want to add a second table.

If your game is often (but not always) full, you might want to invite the early withdraw player last.

If your game is occasionally full, you might want to keep that player anyway - 1/2 a chair is better than an empty chair.

If your game rarely fills, banning a player (or requiring a player to sit longer than they would like) is detrimental to your game.

If your game is already short handed and an early exit breaks the game - isn't some poker better than no poker?
 

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