This loss is tearing me up... (1 Viewer)

Abstracted

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Lost to one of the worst hands in Poker...

Villain is a Calling Station/Fish, and rarely raises pre-flop, and known to bluff especially when Dealer.

This is almost the last hand of the night after 6 hours of playing.

At the Flop I'm thinking he's got Jacks.
At the Turn, I'm thinking he's got Kings with a crappy kicker, and protecting against the Flush.

What do I need to work on so that I get better at protecting against this type of loss?

Here's a link to the video replay:
Hand Replay Video
 

detroitdad

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Lost to one of the worst hands in Poker...

Villain is a Calling Station/Fish, and rarely raises pre-flop, and known to bluff especially when Dealer.

This is almost the last hand of the night after 6 hours of playing.

At the Flop I'm thinking he's got Jacks.
At the Turn, I'm thinking he's got Kings with a crappy kicker, and protecting against the Flush.

What do I need to work on so that I get better at protecting against this type of loss?

Here's a link to the video replay:
Hand Replay Video

quit playing poker?
 

detroitdad

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Just top pair, even with good kicker, isn't enough for a costly showdown with a villain who sticks around and keeps shoving money.
Try to check the hand down if possible. If not possible, the villain should most probably have a better hand.

Or start playing SOHE. It's a way better better game
 

AceFour

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Lost to one of the worst hands in Poker...

Villain is a Calling Station/Fish, and rarely raises pre-flop, and known to bluff especially when Dealer.

This is almost the last hand of the night after 6 hours of playing.

At the Flop I'm thinking he's got Jacks.
At the Turn, I'm thinking he's got Kings with a crappy kicker, and protecting against the Flush.

What do I need to work on so that I get better at protecting against this type of loss?

Here's a link to the video replay:
Hand Replay Video

Donk sauce is strong with this one. Protect against this? Nothing. Over time they will all give it back to you. In our game there are so many playing lottery scratch off's with any two cards that you have to realize that someone is going to hit at least two pair. Don't overvalue the pair. Bet but if the calling station is re-raising big, they hit two pair with jack-noodle. Charge them big time when you have very strong hands or the nuts, they will still call but don't go crazy on big pairs because it is too easy for them to hit two pair and take your money.
 

Abstracted

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Donk sauce is strong with this one. Protect against this? Nothing. Over time they will all give it back to you. In our game there are so many playing lottery scratch off's with any two cards that you have to realize that someone is going to hit at least two pair. Don't overvalue the pair. Bet but if the calling station is re-raising big, they hit two pair with jack-noodle. Charge them big time when you have very strong hands or the nuts, they will still call but don't go crazy on big pairs because it is too easy for them to hit two pair and take your money.

This is great advice, and I'm taking it. Thanks A4!

I'm thinking that I also need to increase my pre-flop raise, because I'm typically getting too many callers.
And my flop bet needs to be slightly more than 50% when I hit, because again, I'm getting too many callers.
Or should I keep my bets like they are?
 

TheWhat

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Like a Check Raise on that flop, from your position.

From an outsider look, not sure why it is so hard to give the "Villain" credit for a hand that could be better than yours when he 4x your turn bet? And you have another player in the hand too ...
 

Legend5555

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You overplayed your hand. Once you get raised on the turn with someone still live behind you, it's time to just give up. You will end up folding the best hand sometimes, but oh well. You have to be more careful in 3 way pots.

Given your call on the turn, you should basically never lead the river. If he was bluffing, he isn't going to call. And it would be super rare for the villain to call with a worse hand. Just check call river given the turn play.
 

tabletalker7

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When against a calling station like that, trips or better play, nothing else can prevent against a call station catching a lucky card. Even if you went all-in prefolp or postflop a calling station is just that, a calling station.
 

AceFour

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This is great advice, and I'm taking it. Thanks A4!

I'm thinking that I also need to increase my pre-flop raise, because I'm typically getting too many callers.
And my flop bet needs to be slightly more than 50% when I hit, because again, I'm getting too many callers.
Or should I keep my bets like they are?
you got a premium hand pre-flop you need to charge them extra for donk sauce. You want 1 or 2 players going into the flop not 5 or 6.
 

BEANO52

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You overplayed your hand. Once you get raised on the turn with someone still live behind you, it's time to just give up. You will end up folding the best hand sometimes, but oh well. You have to be more careful in 3 way pots.

Given your call on the turn, you should basically never lead the river. If he was bluffing, he isn't going to call. And it would be super rare for the villain to call with a worse hand. Just check call river given the turn play.

^^ Basically this imho,

The pot is 165 BB deep before the river. Is this serious? I'd jokingly say move up stakes where they respect your raises but "poker is dead".

Sorry about the villain suckout. Good luck!
 

Abstracted

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The pot is 165 BB deep before the river. Is this serious? I'd jokingly say move up stakes where they respect your raises

Another great take on it.
I think you're right. The stakes are too low for us. Most of the guys at the table aren't looking at the bet to pot ratio or bet to BB ratio. They're looking only at bet size.
 

FordPickup92

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They ole J5.... I've seen A5 and Q4 crap on some monsters. Craps rigged. I dont know that I would have moved all in with J5 with a straight draw, flush draw, and over card on the board but you know lol everybody's gotta move somewhere I guess lol
Sorry about your loss on that hand
 

Perthmike

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This isn't really a bad beat. You hardly beat a thing by the end.

If I was him, and I knew my opponent was a calling station that overvalued top pair second nut kicker on a connected board, I'd snap call that flop bet on the button.

I would recommend that you do some study. Playing like this is going to cost you a lot of money in the long run.

Crush live poker is a good one
 
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Highli99

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Not really a bad beat IMO. Short handed ranges are wide open and you should not be doubling people up when so easy for two pair or straight to win.
 

JustinInMN

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Yeah I think the turn play really requires analysis. KQ really isn't the top of your range, I mean the 5 is a pretty safe card and I don't mind the bet, it's both for protection and the possibility of collecting value from people that are playing cop with lower pairs (especially a jack), but facing the big raise, you have to decide if you are ever facing a bluff here. If not, this is a good candidate to lay down. You will have better hands than KQ in this spot easily you can defend with. Certainly AK, maybe even KJ (depending on how wide you are raising pre from the SB), certainly you can have all the sets too. If you need to bluff catch here, you have to be certain he's bluffing pretty frequently, otherwise this is probably a hand to lay down, but I get it's hard with top pair-second kicker. You also have 8 outs to any two pair hand, 2 kings, 3 queens, and 3 cards that pair the board and counterfit villian, so maybe in a best case, calling the raise to redraw is okay if you know the raise on the turn means two pair. But the problem is these cards are connected enough the queens may not be clean as it would bring in some straights.

I have no idea what the river bet was about? Villain is never going to lay down a better hand, and you can only beat bluffs. Checking the river seems obvious unless you have a soul read villian turned a Jack into a bluff on the turn and would pay off.
 
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Not trying to be rude, but that turn call was really bad. You need to work on your post-flop play. (well and your preflop play if you think KQo is some showdown monster). I would advise you to move down stakes and put in 50,000 hands while tracking your play, and looking for holes.
 

AceFour

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Donk sauce was strong this week. Nothing like getting beat by getting it in on the turn only to beat by some dude drawing the inside straight on the river.
 

boltonguy

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I cant believe that he called your 3 bet pre with J5o. That said multiway with two callers I would have checked the turn for pot control; as played the X/R on the turn would set of my spidey sense and knowing that he can have ATC and is playing face up possibly would have folded. Definitely wouldnt lead river after the X/R when I don't improve and would have folded to a river bet. Play with this guy all day and go for value when he calls and fold when he raises.
 

RainmanTrail

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This might be the most hyperbolic bad beat story I've ever heard. Also, you're going to lose a lot of money if you keep playing poker. Have you thought about giving Rummy a try, perhaps?
 

chipsncoffee

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From my perspective, the hand sort of played itself. I certainly don't mean any offense whatsoever, but I feel like the only thing that got in the way of your hand here was you. The pre-flop raise was the right move, and I don't mind the sizing at all, but maybe a tad bigger could've helped. I generally raise the same way with a limper in the pot: an extra BB on top of a standard 3x raise. However, Villain is getting 3:1 on a call, and that's not insignificant if he thinks he can outplay you in position. The flip side of that is that he should've folded pre-flop, but he didn't. Nothing you can do about that.

After that, everything makes sense. I'm almost never folding to one bet if I've put in money voluntarily and I make a pair. Then the turn gives him two pair and a disguised two pair at that. Yeah, a lot of hands are beating him, but it's also 3-handed. Where I get really confused is where you make the call against his raise with one more person to act behind you. If you think your hand is good, this should've been a shove. If you're not, it's a fold. Lots of hands are also beating you.

I think the most confusing thing for me was the fact that you led into Villain on the river for almost all of the rest of his stack. This should absolutely have been a check.

There are definitely things to take away from this hand, but a lot of it is just circumstantial as well. Donks gonna donk. I also had a bit of a heartbreaking hand take place tonight playing 6-max $200NL online. It should've been the perfect set up, but it went pretty sour. I had AA on the button and Villain (who was REALLY bad) was in the BB. I had been isolating and targeting Villain quite a bit. I raise 3BB and Villain flats and we go to a flop of AKx rainbow. He leads for 7BB (pot) and I raise with the nuts around 18-19BB and he shoves for around 45BB! Awesome! I call and he flips over QJo and makes a T for broadway. :vomit:

Pretty awful.
 

T206

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Some players are calling stations at these stakes because they are playing for nickels and dimes
 

TwoSevenOff

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It's not that bad of a loss. It's not like he hit runner runner or landed a miracle river card. Don't worry about it and move on to the next hand.
 

horseshoez

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All advice up top aside, if I’m first to act against that kind of a donk I’m trying my best to check and let the action unfold from his end. Someone told me, players will usually tell you how they feel about their hand by the way they bet and how much. 95% of the time against a donk like this guy you played, holds true. The turn re-raise was clear indication his hand is pretty good. I may even fold when he does that even sitting on top pair. Doesn’t mean jack shit at that point when the donks range is already known to be extremely wide. Any other two pair he’s holding on that crummy board, 85, J8, maybe even K5. Even if you fold the winning hand against the donk, you fold knowing it could take a turn for the worst on the river with his pre-flop calling range.

Bad players are surprisingly and at times unsurprisingly harder to beat than good players simply because you have more difficulty putting that player on a specific hand...until they go ape shit in their betting, then that’s all the info you need right there with most of them. If they’re not consistent in their range, they’ll be consistent in their betting giving you as much info as possible on their “donkness” lol
 
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