Tourney Terrible Structure (1 Viewer)

[acepilot388]

I'll start of by saying this isn't exactly a large budget event.

At my military base, we are pretty small and isolated. The recreation department here hosts something everyday after working hours. Last night, it was a free poker tournament. And the goal of this tournament is for it to end quickly so the hosts can go home.

Starting Stack- 2500

Blinds, 10-minute Levels:
100-200
200-400
300-600
400-800
500-1000
1000-2000

There were about 40 of us altogether, top 30 got a t-shirt, top 3 won a gift card. Only 5 and 6-handed tables because the tables we have available are circular and small.

In the ensuing Charlie Foxtrot, I averaged 4BB the whole time, and somehow came in 2nd. When it was heads-up, we were at the 1000-2000 level. I had about 10,000 and my opponent had the remaining 90,000. 99% sure it was one of the first times he's played and he had just got lucky through the whole thing. Either way, I wasn't prepared to sit there and try to take him down, had other things going on after the tournament. With this structure, expected to be out a long time ago. But probably 4th or 5th hand heads-up, I stuck it in with a flopped bottom pair figuring he had the middle or high pair. He did and ended the whole thing. Tournament lasted 1 hour and 20 minutes.

 

[Trihonda]

God, that sounds like it sucked...

 

[BGinGA]

the goal of this tournament is for it to end quickly

lol, no kidding. 12-1/2 big blinds to start, with the blinds doubling after 10 minutes???

That's not poker. Textbook definition of shove-fest. Must quadruple up in the first ten minutes just to have a barely-playable 25 big blinds for the start of Level 2. Simply ridiculous.

Dunno how it lasted 1:20, since the six blind levels played totaled only sixty minutes. But with 50 big blinds still on the table at L6, it possibly could have gone another level or two.... if the heads-up stacks been a little more even.

 

[Big Jilm]

Awful. However, on a military base can you do better?

 

[FDLmold]

So is that super turbo, or ultra turbo?

 

[acepilot388]

Dunno how it lasted 1:20, since the six blind levels played totaled only sixty minutes

Once we hit 1000-2000 they kept it there till the end. I want to say there were about 10 or 11 of us left at that point. We pushed two tables together when there was 9 left. Two circular tables, it didn't work well.

However, on a military base can you do better?

On our base, we take what we can get. We are stranded on a tiny island in the Indian Ocean. Not very many nice things here. The officers have their own game, much better playing. This one was open to everyone on island

 

[ekricket]

Once we hit 1000-2000 they kept it there till the end. I want to say there were about 10 or 11 of us left at that point. We pushed two tables together when there was 9 left. Two circular tables, it didn't work well.


On our base, we take what we can get. We are stranded on a tiny island in the Indian Ocean. Not very many nice things here. The officers have their own game, much better playing. This one was open to everyone on island

Dude, what do you need? Chips, cards, whatever send me your address and we'll get you them.

 

[BGinGA]

^^ Seriously. You just make a list, we'll make it happen.

 

[dkersey]

the goal of this tournament is for it to end quickly so the hosts can go home.

Yeah, pretty bad, but they did accomplish their goal!

 

[Trihonda]

^^ Seriously. You just make a list, we'll make it happen.

Sounds like they need a good structure first and foremost. I say we ship BG to this tropical Island for a week. Have him run a few tourneys, put things right. After seeing a BG approved tourney, they won't go back.

 

[Jambine]

Tournament lasted 1 hour and 20 minutes.

Well, they accomplished that at least....

 

[dkersey]

Well, they accomplished that at least....

Less than 2 hours for 40 people? Looks to me like they didn't really want a poker tournament. They probably had to do something to get a box checked, or something like that.

 

[BSteck]

Dude, what do you need? Chips, cards, whatever send me your address and we'll get you them.

Maybe a pre-programmed blind timer?

 

[acepilot388]

Sounds like they need a good structure first and foremost. I say we ship BG to this tropical Island for a week. Have him run a few tourneys, put things right. After seeing a BG approved tourney, they won't go back.

Yes we just need a good structure. I have my own set of chips, cards, everything for my games with the officers. But this recreation department (MWR) run one, they don't need anything fancy. This was early Friday night, so I'm sure the couple MWR guys overseeing the whole thing were on the clock, and just wanted to go out drinking once they got off

 

[ekricket]

Yes we just need a good structure. I have my own set of chips, cards, everything for my games with the officers. But this recreation department (MWR) run one, they don't need anything fancy. This was early Friday night, so I'm sure the couple MWR guys overseeing the whole thing were on the clock, and just wanted to go out drinking once they got off

lol, @BGinGA can set you up! I'd give them two or three options. He'll probably need to know your chip breakdown as well to optimize starting stacks and colorups

 

[BGinGA]

Yes we just need a good structure.

T5000 starting stacks
10-minute blind levels

L1 100 200
L2 100 300
L3 200 400
L4 300 600
L5 400 800
L6 600 1200
L7 800 1600
L8 1200 2400
L9 1800 3600
L10 2500 5000
L11 3500 7000
L12 5000 10000

Players start with 25BB, still finishes in under two hours with 40 players. But at least they get to play some decent poker.

All blind increases ranging from 33%-50%, averaging 43%.

 

[acepilot388]

Awesome, thanks! I'll pitch it to them for next month. They should have the chip capacity. The guy had a large aluminum case with those dice chips you could pick up at Walmart. No numbering. We were all given 10 white as 100s. 1 red as 500. And 1 blue as 1000. I'd estimate he had about 1000-1500 chips total in that case.

 

[Wils]

Tell, don't ask

 

[K ALL IN 9]

On our base, we take what we can get. We are stranded on a tiny island in the Indian Ocean. Not very many nice things here. The officers have their own game, much better playing. This one was open to everyone on island

Are you at DG?

I played a tournament at my last base in Germany and it was about the same and the chip breakdown/denominations were awful. Something like 25-50-100-200. It was the first and last one i played in my 4 years there.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Me: sits down, buys in, looks at structure....

Starting Stack- 2500

Blinds, 10-minute Levels:
100-200
200-400
300-600
400-800
500-1000
1000-2000

Me, to table: "So, you guys wanna chop?"

 

[acepilot388]

Are you at DG?

I played a tournament at my last base in Germany and it was about the same and the chip breakdown/denominations were awful. Something like 25-50-100-200. It was the first and last one i played in my 4 years there.

Yes! Beautiful DG. Not many places to go or things to do, so that's why I'll keep playing this tournament each month even if they don't do a new structure.

 

[acepilot388]

It's been a few months. Played this same tournament last month and was one of the first ones out. I had given the people running it a new structure with a 5,000 chip starting stack. They only increased the starting stack from 2,500 to 3,000. Left the structure as is.

Played this again last night, 3,000 starting stack again:

I was up and down for about 15 minutes. One guy to my left that had no idea what he was doing. Eventually I turned trip Kings on him. I bet the river, he raised me all-in, I call, he shows Jack high.

Then this hand happens at 200-400: I'm UTG with 1600, look down at pocket 8s. I shove, get one caller who shows Q9 off suit. Dealer deals the flop one at a time, so everyone freaks out when there's an 8 as the first card. Then we all freak out even more when the second 8 comes as the very next card.

Didn't get anymore pictures after this. Nothing too exciting. Just grinding it out. There were about 40 of us. Somehow make it to the final table at 10 players. I was card dead, but lots of action so people were dropping like flies. Find myself in the top 5 as the short stack. Think I had like 13,000 at 1,000-2,000. From there, get a good run going and build up to become the chipleader by the time its down to me and one other person. Unfortunately, two hands almost back to back, A 10 < A 4 and then A J < Q 10 finally busted me in second place. Still won a $10 gift card. Whole thing lasted about an hour and a half.

So as we can all see, this is no top of the line game. Just something to do. No one playing is an expert, neither are the guys running it. I had this situation come up and want to see how you guys would resolve it. Although, this would most likely never happen at any game run by anyone here:

I'm in the big blind, dealer had just finished dealing out the cards. So, people start to call (very limp-happy game), however, as action is going around, the dealer starts to deal out the flop, turn, and river, all face down, so he doesn't have to touch the deck during the hand. But the very first burn card gets exposed, Ace of hearts, and he just flips it back facedown and continues like nothing happened, doesn't say anything. Obviously I noticed and he noticed, but I don't believe anyone else did, so just trying to keep things fair, I inform the table that the Ace of hearts was the first burn card, it was exposed, don't look for it. By this point action had already gone through to me and I had checked. I don't know what the dealer was thinking, but he thought it was a huge problem one card was exposed. I was just trying to say, it's okay, everyone knows an ace isn't in play, just continue like normal. But he then proceeds to flip up all the cards, flop, turn, and river so now all 5 cards are showing having only gone through the pre-flop betting round. What would you do at this point to resolve the situation?

I was the only one advocating to return bets and re-deal the hand, granted my hand sucked. But everyone else said just play it as is. And the guys running the tournament agreed. So we just showed our hands and someone won with a middle pair. Of course, the guy that won said it was only fair because the bets were already out. I didn't agree at all since we could have easily pulled bets back. Everyone had only limped in. There were no raises. So yeah, thoughts?

 

[BGinGA]

as action is going around, the dealer starts to deal out the flop, turn, and river, all face down

Don't ever do this, or allow it to be done.

so he doesn't have to touch the deck during the hand

And this is not a valid reason. The procedure for dealing the flop/turn/river in order, with burn cards between, is there for a reason.

the very first burn card gets exposed, Ace of hearts, and he just flips it back facedown and continues like nothing happened, doesn't say anything.

The guy is cheating by withholding that information from the rest of the players. An exposed burn card should have no impact on the subsequent betting procedure, provided the information is shared with all active players. If any player had acted prior to the prematurely exposed card while other players have not yet acted, they have the right to alter their previous action.

he then proceeds to flip up all the cards, flop, turn, and river so now all 5 cards are showing having only gone through the pre-flop betting round.

Yeah, and he could not have done that if the cards had not yet been (incorrectly) dealt ahead of time, which is one of the many reasons it's not done (to avoid improperly exposing cards out of proper sequence).

What would you do at this point to resolve the situation?

Snatch the deck away from the idiot and kick him in the nuts. At least in my head.

But everyone else said just play it as is. And the guys running the tournament agreed.

Horrible TD decision, which followed not one but ~two~ horrible dealer actions. Since the pre-flop action had already concluded when dealer prematurely exposed the turn and river cards (the only important incorrect actions here), the proper ruling is:

• all three burn cards and the three flop cards remain on the board as-is.
• the prematurely exposed turn and river cards are picked up and added to the deck stub, which is then re-shuffled and cut.
• flop betting round.
• a new turn card is dealt (no burn).
• turn betting round.
• a new river card is dealt (no burn).
• river betting round.

This ensures that the three flop cards and all three burn cards are exactly as they would have been with no dealer error, and the opportunity for both the turn card and river card to reappear during the re-deal of those streets is still present.

 

[upNdown]

• all three burn cards and the three flop cards remain on the board as-is.
• the prematurely exposed turn and river cards are picked up and added to the deck stub, which is then re-shuffled and cut.
• flop betting round.
• a new turn card is dealt (no burn).
• turn betting round.
• a new river card is dealt (no burn).
• river betting round.

I'm not sure about leaving the second and third burn cards out, but I can see the reasoning behind it. What I don't understand is why you would deal a new turn and river without burning cards first, even if the earlier burn cards are still there. The reasons for burn cards are always there, and still present on this re-do, aren't they?

 

[BGinGA]

Because burning additional cards poses the possibility that the original turn and river cards may not be available (if they came up as new burn cards).

The main objective is to minimize the impact of the dealer error. In a perfect world, the original turn and river cards would be redealt in their original positions and the play of the actual hand would not be altered from what was originally intended.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Based upon the goals to get guys together and end it shortly I would suggest the following format.

1. Guys show up at the tournament time.
2. As each guy gets their they get a numbered chip.
3. At the tourney start time you draw numbers from a hat. The corresponding number and chip win a t-shirt. Keep drawing till all t-shirts are gone.
4. Put all numbers back in the hat and draw three numbers for the gift cards.
5. Go drinking.

Entire "tournament" takes 15 minutes and you have accomplished both goals! LOL