Table New Build Rail Foam thickness. (1 Viewer)

[MatB]

Quick question..


Anyone here double up the 1" foam on the rail?

I'm moving along pretty quickly, trying to finish by Friday night, but i don't want to skip any important steps.


appreciate any input. thanks,



Matt.

 

[Johnny b]

I can't see an issue. But I'm a rookie ;-)

 

[MatB]

Heres the link to a nice looking build where he is using double the foam on the rail.

http://www.barncow.com/buildpokertable/build-a-poker-table-05.html

seems to give it a nice bit of height too.

I think i'll just copy this process.

 

[Forty4]

I'm guessing you already bought the foam. They do sell 2" thick if you haven't bought it yet.

 

[MatB]

I'm guessing you already bought the foam. They do sell 2" thick if you haven't bought it yet.

Yes already have the 1" 65lb from YAT but there is enough scrap from the center cut out to add another layer as the first layer. I'm ok with using pieces for that,

 

[Trihonda]

Don't do it...

That is all.

 

[12thMan]

I got the kit from yat and it looks like we got/drew up the exact same plans, I built mine exactly like you are building yours I think. I love the way it turned out for my first standard table... But if I was exactly where you are right now I'm thinking I would definitely go ahead and double up!! I play on a few home tables occasionally that have thicker rails and I really like them. I can't see a downside to this, do it and post pics!

 

[Trihonda]

OK, I can't leave it at that @MatB

The link example you showed, ONLY used one layer of rail foam. OK, in looking back I notice they used a top layer only, and didn't do extra layers on the sides. I'd have been ok with this, had you sized the top layer of foam to accommodate. As is stands, your single piece of foam won't likely stretch/reach if you add the extra height. I would NEVER have the top layer of foam (the one directly underneath the vinyl) have seams, as you WILL feel these.

Secondly, one layer of foam is more than sufficient, AND it's going to make upholstery easier IMHO.

Good luck.

 

[12thMan]

Don't do it...

That is all.

Interesting. As you can see above I'm in the exact opposite camp... I think two layers of foam with the vinyl pulled tiiggghhhhtttt would be, well, tight!! (I used to say "tight " and "hella", I'll still bust them out from time to time! )

 

[12thMan]

I think it might be tight on the inside for the top layer of foam to fold around, you may be right there tri. But I think it still could be done, it may be close, but could be done.

 

[Trihonda]

Interesting. As you can see above I'm in the exactthe opposite camp... I think two layers of foam with the vinyl pulled tiiggghhhhtttt would be, well, tight!! (I used to say "tight " and "hella", I'll still bust them out from time to time! )

Yes, but he's already cut/sized his main rail foam, and from the looks of things, I doubt the cut foam can accommodate an extra inch on each side (especially the inside edge, which looks particularly close cut). I never recommend cutting the foam so close before adhering (unless you do a lot of tables and have a system). When I started building tables, I'd leave a ton of extra scrap material, glue it down, then go back after it's cured and sheer off the excess with the electric bread knife. Perfect fit, and vinyl upholstery was easier.

 

[12thMan]

You absolutely may be right, it would probably be more desirable to have a little bit more to play with. I don't know though, it's close, and in all honesty I found working with the vinyl and foam from yat to be pretty easy. Time consuming, but easy. I may just have given it a try.


Edit to add: I think the outer edge would easily be fine, I'm referring to the inner edge when agreeing with you about wanting moooorrreeee!

 

[MatB]

Don't do it...

That is all.

?? lol. glad you did a follow-up.

Yes, but he's already cut/sized his main rail foam, and from the looks of things, I doubt the cut foam can accommodate an extra inch on each side (especially the inside edge, which looks particularly close cut). I never recommend cutting the foam so close before adhering (unless you do a lot of tables and have a system). When I started building tables, I'd leave a ton of extra scrap material, glue it down, then go back after it's cured and sheer off the excess with the electric bread knife. Perfect fit, and vinyl upholstery was easier.

thanks for the input guys..

The main piece i cut and show in the photo, does have enough 'overlap' to accommodate adding extra foam. I agree the extra foam that might be used with seems would be first layer and not the top, next to vinyl layer.

The link i posted shows using the first layer trimmed neat on the top of the rail, before applying the second piece. The end result does look good. Maybe i'll do a test piece and see what 2 layers looks like.

 

[MatB]

You absolutely may be right, it would probably be more desirable to have a little bit more to play with. I don't know though, it's close, and in all honesty I found working with the vinyl and foam from yat to be pretty easy. Time consuming, but easy. I may just have given it a try.


Edit to add: I think the outer edge would easily be fine, I'm referring to the inner edge when agreeing with you about wanting moooorrreeee!

I think i'll see what doubling up top of rail and inner edge looks like. More padding the better.

 

[Trihonda]

More padding the better.

I've built a bunch of tables using 65lb 1" and not once have I heard, "man, these could use some more padding". I always get rave compliments....

 

[12thMan]

It's not about one not being enough, it's about two possibly being better. I've built a few tables as well, and I think a thicker, and in some cases a little wider, rail might be a good thing. Playing on tables that have a thicker, softer, slightly wider rail I find pleasurable as do a lot of people.

 

[BGinGA]

I've built rails with 1", 2" and 1/4" foam. I prefer 1".... but I've found that the rail width is more important to overall comfort than is foam thickness. Rounding the edges of the rail is pretty important to comfort, too.

 

[12thMan]

The 1" 65lb foam is great, but it also deforms rather easily. I'm thinking two layers with the vinyl pulled tight would make it more plush while also adding just a little more denseness, if that makes any sense. I know that plush and dense are two opposites, but I know what I'm trying to say.

 

[MatB]

Luckily this is my first table and a guineapig. Its going to a friends house that we play at on occasion.

Outside Dimensions are 44" x72". with a staring rail width of 4 1/2" (then adding foam etc)
He wanted to have the table be 60" long but i went with 72". I think only 4 feet of playing surface on an oval would have been too small.
I did round over the top edges inside and out with a router.loos like it will be easier for the foam to follow naturally.
The irony is my friend and the guys i play with are mostly carpenters, I'm the painter, and i'm the one building the table..

Whats strange is i thought the 65LB rail foam would have been more firm, something more like the table 1/4" foam.

So I'll get the rail going tonight or tomorrow and post some pics.

Q: When you are applying the vinyl, the previous link shows the order in which to staple vinyl to minimize wrinkles etc. How tight do you have to pull the vinyl as you staple it?

 

[Trihonda]

A: as tight as you can, and maintain consistent tightness. Please do not pre cut the vinyl, as you did the foam. Having extra to use for pulling is important.

 

[MatB]

A: as tight as you can, and maintain consistent tightness. Please do not pre cut the vinyl, as you did the foam. Having extra to use for pulling is important.

Good stuff. Thanks.

 

[MatB]

So i went with just the 1 layer of 1" 65lb. I'm liking it a lot.

I still need to work on my outside vinyl upholstering. I appreciate the input guys.

Heres some pics. Also whenever i do a project i get to buy a new toy. this time a pneumatic staple gun. AWESOME!!

 

[MatB]

Speed cloth installed.
Had to trim the play surface a little, i didn't count for the rail vinyl making the base tight.

So far into it for materials about $240 with no table legs. Buddy has table base already. Does not include new tools etc.

Time so far is approximately 7hrs. Could have been 5hrs if i knew what i was doing. And i think the pneumatic stapler save about 2hrs. Love that thing!!

Thanks again for the tips. Definitely happy with the 1' foam.

Have a few wrinkles on the underside of outside curve. Will have to youtube next time and see what i can do to improve.
But as this table is going to a buddy. My enthusiasm to pull out 100 staples to straighten it out was gone.

 

[Trihonda]

Great first build. To alleviate the vinyl interfering with the play surface, I noticed that you ran the vinyl down the inside... I simply use a razor and trim it flush with the inside edge of the bottom rail... Let me see if I can find a pic...

 

[Trihonda]

This was an older table

 

[MatB]

Great first build. To alleviate the vinyl interfering with the play surface, I noticed that you ran the vinyl down the inside... I simply use a razor and trim it flush with the inside edge of the bottom rail... Let me see if I can find a pic...

I think i know what you mean. I tucked it down inside when i could have cut it flush.

 

[MatB]

This was an older table

View attachment 33495 View attachment 33496

Holy staples batman!! yes thats what i thought..

On another note.. the speed cloth is ok..Just ok. I ordered waterproof speed cloth. I've done quite a bit of camping, and when you say something is waterproof. It better be waterproof.
That speed cloth is NOT waterproof by a long way. I would hesitate to call it water resistant to be honest. I took a scrap piece and ran it under the tap and my hand was wet almost instantly. Not impressed. Might send them an email.

 

[Trihonda]

Holy staples batman!!

If you think that was too many, you didn't put enough in...

I do an initial go-over with a line of staples, then I fill in all the gaps once I'm satisfied with results. Fewer staples increases the risk of a single staple ripping through the vinyl. More staples divides the load. I use narrow crown staples.

 

[MatB]

If you think that was too many, you didn't put enough in...

I do an initial go-over with a line of staples, then I fill in all the gaps once I'm satisfied with results. Fewer staples increases the risk of a single staple ripping through the vinyl. More staples divides the load. I use narrow crown staples.

I see.... this is why first build going to a friend...

What type of vinyl did you use? I ordered the xtreme from YAT. It did not have as much stretch as i thought it would. Or I'm just weak..
But it looks like your outside edge is nice and clean. Technique?

 

[Trihonda]

Technique?

It's the practice technique...

But really, I pull almost as hard as I can, and I watch to ensure the foam is being compressed the same as the foam next to it. This seems to net decent results. Hard to describe. Fingers suffer. I've tried using fancy upholstery pliers that are designed for pulling vinyl, but I always got better results using my hands (better feel)..

I actually don't care for the xtreme vinyl from YAT, I've used it a number of times, and it's ok... but I think it actually rips too easily. I want stretch, but also durability. I've leaned towards the Wisper from Joannes. Cheaper by far, when using a 50% off coupon around 12/yd (or $36 per table). Plus, no shipping.