Tourney Super casual group structure (1 Viewer)

[Frank]

I get together with old friends maybe once a year and we usually play poker. Not the ideal situation for serious players as there's a lot of talking and catching up which is fine but I'd like to find a structure that isn't completely up in the air that everyone will like. Right now I only have a cash set (that won't be used for cash at the moment) that I would like to use for a single table tournament (5+ players, usually with some rebuys too). Anyone with ideas for starting stacks too I'd love to hear it.

Here are the denoms I have:

$0.25 - 225
$0.50 - 125
$1 - 240
$2 - 60
$5 - 190
$20 - 60

Still playing around with blinds but I'll post an idea here:

25 or 30 min levels
0.25/0.50
0.25/0.75
0.50/1
0.75/1.50
Color up 0.25 chips if using 0.50 chips also (end of rebuys if applicable)
1/2
1.50/3
Color up 0.25 or 0.50 chips
20 min levels
2/4
3/6
Not sure if I have enough $2 chips to color up $1s here
4/8
6/12
8/16
Color up $1 and $2 chips
15 or 20 min levels
10/20
15/30
20/40
30/60
40/80
50/100

I don't think there's a nice starting stack using all the denominations so I figure something like:

16 x 0.25
16 x $1
12 x $5
1 x $20

or if I wanted to use the $2 chips and a maximum of 6 players:

16 x 0.25
16 x $1
10 x $2
8 x $5
1 x $20

and 5 x $20 for rebuys.

I'd like to use the $2 chips though seeing how they're some of the less worn ones. Maybe there's a starting stack I could use with just the 0.50, $2, $5 and $20 and just double the starting stack and first level?

The different level times is based off of people not liking the blinds increasing at the beginning seeing how it's usually pretty slow and at the end usually deciding to skip a blind level or two. 4-5 hours should be fine.

Thanks all.

 

[pltrgyst]

I'd leave the quarters out, start the blinds at 1/2, 1/3, 2/4, etc., and use the 50-centers as $50s, You have plenty of chips for 7 or more people with rebuys.

IMO, that small number of $2s wouldn't add anything but confusion...

Have fun!

 

[Trihonda]

Starting with 1/2 is an option, but I don't dislike your starting structure with $.25/.50. I'd personally never introduce a chip tha is only 2x value in a tourney. So ditch the idea of the $2 chip imho.

 

[BGinGA]

Ditch the 50c and $2 chips - you have plenty of quarters, ones, and fives to make a very playable tourney set. The other chips will just slow down the game.

T100 stacks:

16 x 25c
16 x $1
8 x $5
2 x $20
---------------
42 chips = $100

10-player chip set:

160 x 25c
160 x $1
113 x $5 (includes 33x for 25c/ $1 color-ups)
20 x $20
----------------
453 total chips

Use a combination of your extra $5 and $20 chips for $100 re-buys (8/3) - you have plenty of 25c and $1 chips on the table already.

Use a 'standard' T25-base T10000 blind structure with 25/50 opening blinds (200 bb). Your event will play identically with values that are one-tenth of those listed.

 

[Trihonda]

@Frank BGinGA has spoken. You're new, so I'll clue you in. You've just walked into a golf country club, you posed a question to the local golf pro about your game, and Tiger Woods pops his head over a nearby high back leather chair, and gives you advice. You listen. But seriously, BG is the resident authority in tourney structures. Literally, people post events, and advertise that their structures are "BG Approved" lol

 

[Blaster]

A thought for you about re-buys & add-on's :
Some games have very horrible structures, where a starting stack is worth only 8-12 BB's ( or less), after just five or six 15-20min rounds ( a usual ending period for re-buys).
Since You will not have that problem with the blind levels suggested, you may find, as I have, with the single table tournaments I ( not often enough) that I do, , that there are most often zero, & occasionally 1, rarely 2, re-buys needed before the re-buy period is over, since most players usually don't get severely short stacked, except for the very rare occasional cooler hand times when a boat runs into quads or whatever in the 1st rounds, & without expected re-buys the pot may end up $maller that was imagined ...
Half my table is also usually casual players, & I don't want anyone to have to go home or bust out within the 1st 90-120 mins, so I still offer the rebuy option, but at the end of the rebuy period/break, is a "pot builder " Add-on, usually for about a full stack, at an incredibly low "sale price"
If , for example the initial buy-in & re-buy was between $55-65, the add-on might be only $10, $15 or $20 ... I have recently slightly 'upped the inital buy-in $ at the most recent games, since so few, if any, were actually busting out in most games..
Everyone usually takes the add-on, it gives the short stack(s) some breathing room, prize pool gets 'upped, & the tournament is locked & kind of "officially starts" at that point, since if you bust out then you're gone ...

 

[Frank]

@Frank BGinGA has spoken. You're new, so I'll clue you in. You've just walked into a golf country club, you posed a question to the local golf pro about your game, and Tiger Woods pops his head over a nearby high back leather chair, and gives you advice. You listen. But seriously, BG is the resident authority in tourney structures. Literally, people post events, and advertise that their structures are "BG Approved" lol

Oh I thought he might pop in (and I've seen the 'BGinGA Approved' term). I was almost certain he would say not to use the 50c and $2 chips, and I will listen. I guess Tiger Woods could still give advice as long as he doesn't have to execute any shots.

How would this set look for a cash game without the 50c and $2 chips? Probably .25/.50 NLHE but maybe higher. At some point I'm sure to get a bigger tourney set and change this one's use (making sure all the chips are there, or sell it).

@Blaster There's usually at least one or two rebuys in my games. I could suggest your add-on idea but I don't know if it would fly. Maybe for short stacks only (somewhere between %50-%100 or less of starting stack) since I doubt my group would want to feel obligated to add-on if everyone could.

 

[upNdown]

I'm with you on that, Frank. I think add-ons stink. Fine if it's a for charity, but for regular tournaments, I don't like it.

 

[BGinGA]

Add-ons serve a purpose under the right conditions. As @upNdown stated, they are great for generating revenue in charity events.

Depending upon the structure, they can also work in a non-charity event, too: small stakes, small stacks, lots of cheap re-buys, cheap add-on -- a $5 or $10 50BB tourney with those options can be a blast, and it really opens up the starting hand ranges. Total cost (and prize pool) are usually not much different than a 'normal' $20 or $40 event, but there is a whole lot more action (and usually fun) to get to the same end-game.

However, for most typical 'normal' events, having an add-on in addition to re-buys usually only benefits two categories of players -- the weaker players, and those players with deep pockets. And if everybody buys an add-on, it only lengthens the tournament, and really serves no purpose that couldn't be better addressed with higher entry fees and larger starting stacks

For our typical re-buy events (less than 200bb), I like to issue re-buy chips and restrict the number of re-buys to one per player. Unused re-buy chips are converted to a free add-on at the end of the re-buy period (usually 10bb at the current blind level), which gives the re-buy chip both some intrinsic value and a strategy component.

 

[Poker Zombie]

You can always relabel your 2s to hundos with the assistance of Gear.

 

[Trihonda]

The weekly I play in has a $40 entry, 1 re-rentry allowed, and an optional add-on for $10 at the first break when the re-entry period has ended.

Typically there are 60-70 entries in play at the end.

$40 gets you 20k in chips. The add-on gets you 10k in chips. 1/2 price value (chip-wise). I've only re-entered once in the years I've played this game (and had a feeling, was running hot, and eventually chopped for 2nd). Otherwise, I never re-enter. I do however take advantage of the add-on most often. On good tourney weeks, I'm at around 40-70k, and the add-on seems a decent boost to my stack. Blinds at this point are around 300/600, so 10k is some extra wiggle room. Generally everyone adds on... I've cashed 50% of these events, so the add-on for me has worked. However, I agree with BG that generally re-buys and add-ons have limited benefit

 

[Frank]

@BGinGA For those cheap re-buy tournaments you are mentioning, are re-buys only permitted once knocked out? And are the add-ons always the same amount as the starting stacks? With 50bb ($25) starting stack and re-buy period ending at say L4 (0.75/1.50) the starting stack (add-on) would be 12.5bb going into the next level of 1/2. With my set and that type of rebuy tournament I'm assuming same starting stack as above minus 7 x $5 and the 2 x $20 chips. Rebuys with 5 x $5 chips at first and then 1 x $5 and 1 x $20.

You can always relabel your 2s to hundos with the assistance of Gear.

I don't think this will be my permanent tournament set, but I have considered relabeling although very briefly. If I keep it for cash I'd likely keep the chips as is.

 

[Poker Zombie]

However, I agree with BG that generally re-buys and add-ons have limited benefit

Rebuys have a much greater value in casual games. You get KO'ed, you rebuy. Not for the dollar to big-blind ratio; rebuys are for the dollar to social interaction value. Priceless.

 

[Frank]

I think he meant add-ons only. At least that's what I got out of BG's post.

 

[pltrgyst]

....For our typical re-buy events (less than 200bb), I like to issue re-buy chips and restrict the number of re-buys to one per player. Unused re-buy chips are converted to a free add-on at the end of the re-buy period (usually 10bb at the current blind level), which gives the re-buy chip both some intrinsic value and a strategy component.

I've said many times that I don't like re-buy tournaments. However, when I must play them, I consider an add-on -- whether free or paid -- critical, to make it less likely that people who've not busted don't have smaller stacks than those who have busted and re-bought. If that's not the case, then the last minutes before re-buys end become a pointless shove fest, with the potential for ruining the entire tournament.

Ymmv, of course...

 

[BGinGA]

For those cheap re-buy tournaments you are mentioning, are re-buys only permitted once knocked out?

That is typically how we do it - players must bust out to re-buy (see below*). Zombie does it a little differently - you can re-buy at any time, but you surrender your current stack. His re-buy stacks are a little larger than the starting stack (10%, I think?) to compensate. Either approach works just fine.

* Occasionally we will offer 1/2-stack re-loads, where a player can purchase a half-stack (for half price of the original buy-in) any time their stack drops below 50% of the starting stack size. A player who busts out can buy two half-stacks, or a full re-buy). This approach also works pretty well, and helps keep players from getting short-stacked and desperation all-ins. Common for pot limit tournaments, where large pot losses are much more common than NLHE.

are the add-ons always the same amount as the starting stacks?

They can be, but we seldom go with a full stack add-on -- ours typically range from a 1/4-stack to 1/2-stack (5K add-on for 20K starting stacks. 5K for 15K start, 5K for 10K start, etc.).

 

[Frank]

For our typical re-buy events (less than 200bb), I like to issue re-buy chips and restrict the number of re-buys to one per player. Unused re-buy chips are converted to a free add-on at the end of the re-buy period (usually 10bb at the current blind level), which gives the re-buy chip both some intrinsic value and a strategy component.

I really like this idea. I finally saw free before add-on lol. Here's what I'm thinking with my set but would love your input:

T75 starting stack
20 min levels
0.25/0.50
0.25/0.75
0.50/1
0.75/1.50
End re-buys, free add-on will be equal to 10bbs going into the next level so T20.

Continue as typical structure. I kind of wanted to double the end of re-buys with a color up but that doesn't seem possible. Guess there's no harm in taking another short break after 2 more levels to color up.

And how's this alternative: 200bb (T100) starting stacks and 15bb free add-ons (T30)?

Thanks so much for your advice!

 

[BGinGA]

Your proposed structure looks fine, and I'd personally rather start with a 200BB (T100) stack than a 150BB (T75) stack. Likely to be fewer re-buys, too.

One thing you might consider is ending re-buys after the first hour (after L3 .50/1), and making the free add-on worth T15 going into L4 (or T22 if giving away 15BB) - that way your scheduled color-up occurs at the end of the second hour. Making the add-on T30 is too high of a percentage of the T100 starting stack. I think getting 15% to 20% free chips is plenty.

We typically break every hour of play (either four 15-minute levels or three 20-minute levels), but our breaks are more for dealers than the players (our events use dedicated dealers).