Sunday morning question.... why do we call them "ceramics" (1 Viewer)

Ben8257

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This one has puzzled me for quite a while now and not sure I have ever seen the answer.

So the Oxford Dictionary defines Ceramics as "made of clay and hardened by heat"

There is no clay in what we all here call "ceramic chips", they are simply a hardened plasctic blank. As a matter of fact what we do call "clay chips" fits the definition of "ceramic" perfectly....

Enlighten me Amigos?
 
Great question!
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I could be mistaken, but don't the blanks go through the same "hardening process" as basic ceramic? Maybe that's why we call them ceramics.
 
  • Metals. Metal is a material (usually solid) comprising one or more metallic elements (e.g., iron, aluminum, copper, chromium, titanium, gold, nickel), and often also nonmetallic elements (e.g., carbon, nitrogen, oxygen) in relatively small amounts. The unique feature of metals as far as their structure is concerned is the presence of charge carriers, specifically electrons. This feature is given by the nature of metallic bond. In metallic bond, the atoms do not share or exchange electrons to bond together. Instead, many electrons (roughly one for each atom) are more or less free to move throughout the metal, so that each electron can interact with many of the fixed atoms. The electrical and thermal conductivities of metals originate from the fact that their outer electrons are delocalized.
  • Ceramics. A ceramic is a solid material comprising an inorganic compound of metal, non-metal or metalloid atoms primarily held in ionic and covalent bonds. Common examples are earthenware, porcelain, and brick. In nuclear industry, uranium dioxide is a ceramic refractory uranium compound, in many cases used as a nuclear fuel.
  • Polymers. Polymers are compounds (macromolecules) composed of carbon, hydrogen, and other nonmetallic elements. Polymers range from familiar synthetic plastics such as polystyrene to natural biopolymers such as DNA and proteins that are fundamental to biological structure and function. Some common and familiar polymers are polyethylene (PE), nylon, polycarbonate (PC), polystyrene (PS), and silicone rubber.
 
This one has puzzled me for quite a while now and not sure I have ever seen the answer.

So the Oxford Dictionary defines Ceramics as "made of clay and hardened by heat"

There is no clay in what we all here call "ceramic chips", they are simply a hardened plasctic blank. As a matter of fact what we do call "clay chips" fits the definition of "ceramic" perfectly....

Enlighten me Amigos?
1659881742230.gif
 
  • Metals. Metal is a material (usually solid) comprising one or more metallic elements (e.g., iron, aluminum, copper, chromium, titanium, gold, nickel), and often also nonmetallic elements (e.g., carbon, nitrogen, oxygen) in relatively small amounts. The unique feature of metals as far as their structure is concerned is the presence of charge carriers, specifically electrons. This feature is given by the nature of metallic bond. In metallic bond, the atoms do not share or exchange electrons to bond together. Instead, many electrons (roughly one for each atom) are more or less free to move throughout the metal, so that each electron can interact with many of the fixed atoms. The electrical and thermal conductivities of metals originate from the fact that their outer electrons are delocalized.
  • Ceramics. A ceramic is a solid material comprising an inorganic compound of metal, non-metal or metalloid atoms primarily held in ionic and covalent bonds. Common examples are earthenware, porcelain, and brick. In nuclear industry, uranium dioxide is a ceramic refractory uranium compound, in many cases used as a nuclear fuel.
  • Polymers. Polymers are compounds (macromolecules) composed of carbon, hydrogen, and other nonmetallic elements. Polymers range from familiar synthetic plastics such as polystyrene to natural biopolymers such as DNA and proteins that are fundamental to biological structure and function. Some common and familiar polymers are polyethylene (PE), nylon, polycarbonate (PC), polystyrene (PS), and silicone rubber.
Very informative Kevin, am I wrong ot would our plastic "ceramics" not fall under the "polymers" category? Technically our clay chips today are all polymers as well, but maybe that whole post is above my pay grade. Lol
 
Very informative Kevin, am I wrong ot would our plastic "ceramics" not fall under the "polymers" category? Technically our clay chips today are all polymers as well, but maybe that whole post is above my pay grade. Lol
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I could be mistaken, but don't the blanks go through the same "hardening process" as basic ceramic? Maybe that's why we call them ceramics.
I assume the same thing and agree they are hardened and maybe why that name was used, but I don't think it is correct. But our ABS slugged plastics are a much softer composition so I guess they needed something to call the harder plastics. I just don't think they picked the right term myself,
 
I assume the same thing and agree they are hardened and maybe why that name was used, but I don't think it is correct. But our ABS slugged plastics are a much softer composition so I guess they needed something to call the harder plastics. I just don't think they picked the right term myself,
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Years ago I feel like ceramics was specifically used for high end plastics. Don't know if that's still how but it always confused me too.

Paranoids are indeed ceramics per the internet, so ceramic chips were for sure actually produced at one point.
 
We get mixed up when we start mixing properties of materials with composition of materials. All materials exhibit plasticity, but not all are plastics.
I think the key difference is that clays are very small discrete particles that are held together in a medium where plastics are chains of polymer material held together by being entangled within each other.
Things tend to get classified by how you have to handle them, not necessarily what the component atoms are.
None of this helps but a couple of semesters of material science opens your mind in a ton of useless ways.
 
This one has puzzled me for quite a while now and not sure I have ever seen the answer.

So the Oxford Dictionary defines Ceramics as "made of clay and hardened by heat"

There is no clay in what we all here call "ceramic chips", they are simply a hardened plasctic blank. As a matter of fact what we do call "clay chips" fits the definition of "ceramic" perfectly....

Enlighten me Amigos?
We call ceramics "ceramics" even though they're made out of plastic because the particular plastic they're made out of is very hard and very smooth (unless deliberately textured) and accordingly looks and feels somewhat like they're made out of ceramic. I'd be curious to know how and when that name first got used for those chips... Chipco made the first ones, I wonder if they were ever deliberately marketed using the term "ceramic" or if the customers (casinos, dealers, maybe even players) just started calling them that.

Clay chips aren't clay in the same sense that bricks and pottery are, and clay chips definitely aren't any sort of ceramic (clay like in bricks and pots is a type of ceramic). Clay chips are basically plastic, but the formula for the plastic includes some minerals, which contributes to the way they feel.

The difference between clay-like-in-bricks and clay-like-in-poker-chips is that clay-like-in-bricks is soft when wet and hardens as it's dried, i.e. its properties depend on how much moisture there is. Clay doesn't melt as its heated; it becomes drier and drier as its heated until it is completely dry, at which point it's fully hardened and waterproof. Whereas clay-like-in-poker-chips doesn't behave like clay, it behaves like plastic (because that's mostly what it is). It's firm at low temperatures, but softens and melts at higher temperatures. When heated enough under high pressures, it undergoes a physical change called curing which makes it hard again, permanently, so that even once it's cooled down, it won't melt again when heated again. This is in some respects similar to the change that clay-like-in-bricks goes through (they both have a permanent change and become permanently rigid) but the details of what's actually happening and how it works are very different. Clay hardens when the water is driven out; plastic (i.e. clay-like-in-poker-chips) hardens because the polymer molecule chains get "cross-linked" aka tangled up with each other.

The reason clay chips are called "clay" is because the very earliest clay chips were made by mixing natural plastics (lacquer resin) with clay (i.e. dirt) in an effort to make something similar to ivory - something pliable and moldable at first that would then harden and could be cut and polished and carved. Later the natural plastics were replaced with synthetic plastics, starting with the first synthetic plastic developed: celluloid. Poker chips of this sort have always contained clay, but the clay served as a sort of filler to give the plastic greater density and an appealing feel (again, trying to replicate ivory); chips were never made of clay the way that bricks and pots are made of clay.
 
If you all are going to start making me think on a Sunday morning I’m going to have to start drinking much earlier
Well... I don't have any brewski currently... but I do have all damn day!
20220807_105711.jpg

Anyone ever tried going southbound on 95 in VA on a Sunday at 11 am... let's just say it is a LOT of fun according to @Seeking Alpha Social Club , average speed is about 2 mph. But my heart AkA Myrtle Beach, SC holds the checkered flag at the end of this voyage. 2 years since ai have been home... Margaritas are already calling my name from here!!
 
Well... I don't have any brewski currently... but I do have all damn day!
View attachment 962821
Anyone ever tried going southbound on 95 in VA on a Sunday at 11 am... let's just say it is a LOT of fun according to @Seeking Alpha Social Club , average speed is about 2 mph. But my heart AkA Myrtle Beach, SC holds the checkered flag at the end of this voyage. 2 years since ai have been home... Margaritas are already calling my name from here!!
Only a two hour drive to go another 50 miles from there. :confused Can’t say I miss that highway one bit!
Safe ride to the Grande Strand. ;)
 
Well... I don't have any brewski currently... but I do have all damn day!
View attachment 962821
Anyone ever tried going southbound on 95 in VA on a Sunday at 11 am... let's just say it is a LOT of fun according to @Seeking Alpha Social Club , average speed is about 2 mph. But my heart AkA Myrtle Beach, SC holds the checkered flag at the end of this voyage. 2 years since ai have been home... Margaritas are already calling my name from here!!
Yeah...that crap sucks brother!! But look at the bright side...

....CHEERS!!
 
We call ceramics "ceramics" even though they're made out of plastic because the particular plastic they're made out of is very hard and very smooth (unless deliberately textured) and accordingly looks and feels somewhat like they're made out of ceramic. I'd be curious to know how and when that name first got used for those chips... Chipco made the first ones, I wonder if they were ever deliberately marketed using the term "ceramic" or if the customers (casinos, dealers, maybe even players) just started calling them that.

Clay chips aren't clay in the same sense that bricks and pottery are, and clay chips definitely aren't any sort of ceramic (clay like in bricks and pots is a type of ceramic). Clay chips are basically plastic, but the formula for the plastic includes some minerals, which contributes to the way they feel.

The difference between clay-like-in-bricks and clay-like-in-poker-chips is that clay-like-in-bricks is soft when wet and hardens as it's dried, i.e. its properties depend on how much moisture there is. Clay doesn't melt as its heated; it becomes drier and drier as its heated until it is completely dry, at which point it's fully hardened and waterproof. Whereas clay-like-in-poker-chips doesn't behave like clay, it behaves like plastic (because that's mostly what it is). It's firm at low temperatures, but softens and melts at higher temperatures. When heated enough under high pressures, it undergoes a physical change called curing which makes it hard again, permanently, so that even once it's cooled down, it won't melt again when heated again. This is in some respects similar to the change that clay-like-in-bricks goes through (they both have a permanent change and become permanently rigid) but the details of what's actually happening and how it works are very different. Clay hardens when the water is driven out; plastic (i.e. clay-like-in-poker-chips) hardens because the polymer molecule chains get "cross-linked" aka tangled up with each other.

The reason clay chips are called "clay" is because the very earliest clay chips were made by mixing natural plastics (lacquer resin) with clay (i.e. dirt) in an effort to make something similar to ivory - something pliable and moldable at first that would then harden and could be cut and polished and carved. Later the natural plastics were replaced with synthetic plastics, starting with the first synthetic plastic developed: celluloid. Poker chips of this sort have always contained clay, but the clay served as a sort of filler to give the plastic greater density and an appealing feel (again, trying to replicate ivory); chips were never made of clay the way that bricks and pots are made of clay.
Some of the older clay chips have much more "clay" in them then modern chips. Agreed not made in the same fashion as bricks, but definitely much more clay in those compositions than today. The old HHL molds, the old Nevada lodge Diamond Squares before our beloved TRK scrowns were made. Many of these chips almost feel like they are made in the same fashion as bricks though.

I know that over the years they molded new formulas to have more elasticity and durability... but man the feel of those old school clays are really unique. Wish I could find more of these for a fully playable set to share with other chippers at meet ups.
20220109_085054.jpg

The only "weighted" HHLs I have found. So unique to what most of us call "clay" today. They have a gritty, almost sandpaper texture, but at the same time smooth almost like they polished a brick! Lol... You can totally destroy a 1/8 cube of magic eraser cleaning just 2 or 3 of them. I understand the whole "dexterity" concerns, but none of these have flea bites at all. I would say they are more likely to break than get a flea bite from a drop. Like playing poker with stones!

Interesting to the refrence of Ivory multiple times there, never really thought about the fact that they were trying to replicate that, or even the Bone chips. Either of those are going to stans up to thousands of hours of use very well.
 
So basically we have discovered that they are called "Ceramics" because... Merica and we said so and didn't know what else to call them. Gotcha! Like calling a chip with 3 stripes a "Bear Claw" that obviously has 5 claws... glad we have solved yet another "mystery within our amazing hobby"

It was really a rhetorical quarter anyways. Polyester Polyethylene UHMW just doesn't roll off the tounge quite as easily I guess. Lol
 
Don’t know who came up with calling them ceramic chips, but I agree it could well be because of how similar to porcelain the material seems.
 
:unsure: Probably it a marketing move and also easier to be ID by the public

Ceramic Chip will sound better and higher quality than Plastic Chip

Ceramic Chip will sound less confusing than Polymers Chip
 
Clay chips are no longer made of clay and ceramic chips are not fired clay. Plastics are the only chips that are honest about what they truly are!
... except plastics usually have metal in them!

IT'S ALL FAKES, FRAUDS, AND PHONEYS
 

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