Strategy vs Loose player… (1 Viewer)

xdukeluvax

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Wanted some strategies you find best vs this player at my game… hes not quite a LAG player tho. So he plays a very wide range pre flop, he will call extremely wide with any draw post flop and he just seems to always get there on the turn or river. As far as GTO he’s horrible but he just seems to have all the luck on his side that rewards him for calling anything and always getting there. Now he can make folds if he has to he just plays way loser than GTO strategy would suggest
What is the preferred strategy vs this player? I hate to just way up my sizing and make him fold his garbage and lose value but i almost have to or he seems to always suck out if i dont
 
I hate to just way up my sizing and make him fold his garbage and lose value but i almost have to or he seems to always suck out if i dont

Find out the most he will call with garbage and bet that amount. FOLLOW THROUGH with bets on later streets that deny proper pot odds for draws.

Also, construct your bets (if stacks permit) to allow you to get all-in on earlier streets so that you're putting all the money in as the favorite.
 
Also pretty much no one at my regular games are all that good as far as studying the game… everyone just kinda plays mediocre poker with not much creativity.
Should i just play a simple tight strategy vs these players and only play the premiums?
I find myself more often trying to make moves and be creative in a lot of spots but no one really even breaks down hand combo or possibilities of hands im repping they just call with decent hands hoping they are good and fold trash.
Just seems like whoever gets the best cards each night wins and thats it.
 
Find out the most he will call with garbage and bet that amount. FOLLOW THROUGH with bets on later streets that deny proper pot odds for draws.

Also, construct your bets (if stacks permit) to allow you to get all-in on earlier streets so that you're putting all the money in as the favorite.
This is what i definitely want to do…. I just thought i always heard dont try and get worse hands to fold because you lose value.
 
I find myself more often trying to make moves and be creative in a lot of spots but no one really even breaks down hand combo or possibilities of hands im repping they just call with decent hands hoping they are good and fold trash

Moves aren't necessary against simplistic play. Being way better at value betting is how you separate yourself from the pack.
 
Wanted some strategies you find best vs this player at my game… hes not quite a LAG player tho. So he plays a very wide range pre flop, he will call extremely wide with any draw post flop and he just seems to always get there on the turn or river. As far as GTO he’s horrible but he just seems to have all the luck on his side that rewards him for calling anything and always getting there. Now he can make folds if he has to he just plays way loser than GTO strategy would suggest
What is the preferred strategy vs this player? I hate to just way up my sizing and make him fold his garbage and lose value but i almost have to or he seems to always suck out if i dont

Also pretty much no one at my regular games are all that good as far as studying the game… everyone just kinda plays mediocre poker with not much creativity.
Should i just play a simple tight strategy vs these players and only play the premiums?
I find myself more often trying to make moves and be creative in a lot of spots but no one really even breaks down hand combo or possibilities of hands im repping they just call with decent hands hoping they are good and fold trash.
Just seems like whoever gets the best cards each night wins and thats it.
Sounds like a game of nits and calling stations.

You only need one strategy to beat this game: play better.

Not to sound harsh, but any time I hear someone complaining that an opponent has an over abundance of luck and 'always gets there', I'm inclined to think that the individual doesn't have a firm grasp of some fundamental concepts of the game.
 
Sounds like a game of nits and calling stations.

You only need one strategy to beat this game: play better.

Not to sound harsh, but any time I hear someone complaining that an opponent has an over abundance of luck and 'always gets there', I'm inclined to think that the individual doesn't have a firm grasp of some fundamental concepts of the game.
?…. Yeah thats why im literally asking for help..
 
That ”LAG” player just sounds like a loose passive fish. Play good starting hands, and value bet relentlessly when you hit. Probably value bet thinner than you have been, but give up when they play back. Might make for a boring poker night if you’re not picking up hands, but that’s what it takes to beat these kinds of players.
 
That ”LAG” player just sounds like a loose passive fish. Play good starting hands, and value bet relentlessly when you hit. Probably value bet thinner than you have been, but give up when they play back. Might make for a boring poker night if you’re not picking up hands, but that’s what it takes to beat these kinds of players.
Yeah thanks. Im going to try a little tighter approach this week with less bluffs and less C-betting when i miss. I try and stay balanced but no ones paying attention enough for that to matter i think. Im curious what bet sizing could be optimal for my game. Probably try a bit thinner and larger like you suggested
 
Yeah thanks. Im going to try a little tighter approach this week with less bluffs and less C-betting when i miss. I try and stay balanced but no ones paying attention enough for that to matter i think. Im curious what bet sizing could be optimal for my game. Probably try a bit thinner and larger like you suggested
I’d say don’t worry about balance unless they give you reason to. If you can get away with it, just bet really big with your good hands and try to pick a few spots with small bets where they seem uninterested. Basic strategy and playing balanced is good for your overall game, but if people play bad that goes out the window in favor of exploits
 
Suck outs and coolers are just poker variance. All you can do is get your money in good. I’d put some of the suck out hands through Equilab or something like that to check that you have as much equity as you think. It may be that you’re not as far ahead as you think, or maybe you’re just on a bad streak…

The math says if Villain is opening wide he has to get rid of the excess hands, probably by over folding or over calling. Don’t complain if he folds - that’s the maths working. As others have said, value bet more on turns and rivers. He might bink a straight with a 2 outer a couple of times but can’t keep doing that. Just make sure it didn’t go check check that time he missed.

Also, standard defense to a wider open is to 3-bet lighter in the first place.
 
We have one of these at our table. At this point, you need to punish them on draws and don't let them get free cards. If they want to keep following on 25% or less draws, you need to make sure to get it to pay off in gains that 75% time they miss.
 
Sounds like a game of nits and calling stations.

You only need one strategy to beat this game: play better.

Not to sound harsh, but any time I hear someone complaining that an opponent has an over abundance of luck and 'always gets there', I'm inclined to think that the individual doesn't have a firm grasp of some fundamental concepts of the game.
I know of one exception to your rule, and he lurks these forums frequently. His poker starts name is even Lucky Not Good…
 
Yeah im curious with no one els playing hands based on position at all how if at all my range pre would adjust for that?… any opinion?
It's not about what they are doing. It is all about what you are NOT doing, and that is punishing them for playing garbage. People who seem to hit TONS of draws are hitting them because they are drawing to them a lot, which is a tell tale sign of flops being entirely too cheap to see. Preflop, if you have a premium hand and no one raised, then you raise. If someone did raise then make it 3x their raise (Raise more). If you can't raise with the cards you are holding, throw them in (fold more). Calling is not an option anymore. Home games always have a lot of cheap flops. Don't let flops be cheap when you have a premium starting hand. That is how you end the magical draws.
 
It's not about what they are doing. It is all about what you are NOT doing, and that is punishing them for playing garbage. People who seem to hit TONS of draws are hitting them because they are drawing to them a lot, which is a tell tale sign of flops being entirely too cheap to see. Preflop, if you have a premium hand and no one raised, then you raise. If someone did raise then make it 3x their raise (Raise more). If you can't raise with the cards you are holding, throw them in (fold more). Calling is not an option anymore. Home games always have a lot of cheap flops. Don't let flops be cheap when you have a premium starting hand. That is how you end the magical draws.
Great great point! I was following a standard open/3 bet sizing and thats my mistake. Im going to bump that up a good %. Thanks for the advice!
 
Play low stakes free money on any of the online sites. You’ll see a bunch of these fish seeing every flop and calling to the end. The correct strategy is to play tighter then them and place half to full pot bets when you hit, giving them poor pot odds.

If the fish outdraw you but have bad pot odds, you take the hit and move on. But make them pay for every card. Keep playing at the free tables full of fish online until you can beat them consistently.
 
Consider tightening up a bit, but when you do play a hand, bet huge. Pot sized bets or even over bets. Make them pay for playing loose.
 
I know that his luck will run out statistically sure but after this post we played heads up and i cannot make this shit up….
So hes catching all the hands or course so my stack gets small about 2/1. I get A,10 5x he calls.
Flop A,10,9 i bet 3/4 pot he calla
Turn 4 i bet pot he calls
River is a 2 i bet a little over pot he calls and shows fucking 53 off suit….
It just never ends with him making every wrong decision and getting rewarded for it. He said he was semi bluffing….. by calling…. Thats how dumb he is… it happens every week we play. He wins more than any of us 8 regulars
 
I know that his luck will run out statistically sure but after this post we played heads up and i cannot make this shit up….
So hes catching all the hands or course so my stack gets small about 2/1. I get A,10 5x he calls.
Flop A,10,9 i bet 3/4 pot he calla
Turn 4 i bet pot he calls
River is a 2 i bet a little over pot he calls and shows fucking 53 off suit….
It just never ends with him making every wrong decision and getting rewarded for it. He said he was semi bluffing….. by calling…. Thats how dumb he is… it happens every week we play. He wins more than any of us 8 regulars
Was there a flush on board? Why is he only calling on the river?

What are you putting him on throughout the hand?

Is this a cash game or tourney? Were you playing for actual money?
 
Was there a flush on board? Why is he only calling on the river?

What are you putting him on throughout the hand?

Is this a cash game or tourney? Were you playing for actual money?
There was no flush. Rainbow flop.
Any pair or him praying for a draw to hit like he always does.
It was cash yes real money
 
he just seems to always get there on the turn or river
he just seems to have all the luck on his side that rewards him for calling anything and always getting there
he seems to always suck out if i dont

You will never be a good poker player until you understand probability, and right now it seems like you don't. There is no luck in poker. If your opponent sucks out on you, that's good, because it means he called while he was behind. As long as he keeps doing that, you will win more often than you lose.

You need to learn a lot more about probability and Expected Value. Until you can see that getting sucked out on is good and you are fully confident that you understand why it's good, you will have a giant hole in your understanding of the fundamental nature of poker, and no amount of studying GTO or getting advice to play looser or tighter will ever matter.

Google probability expected value poker and read and watch everything that comes up in that search until you feel like you understand why it's good to get sucked out on. Then you can continue with your poker education.
 
You will never be a good poker player until you understand probability, and right now it seems like you don't. There is no luck in poker. If your opponent sucks out on you, that's good, because it means he called while he was behind. As long as he keeps doing that, you will win more often than you lose.

You need to learn a lot more about probability and Expected Value. Until you can see that getting sucked out on is good and you are fully confident that you understand why it's good, you will have a giant hole in your understanding of the fundamental nature of poker, and no amount of studying GTO or getting advice to play looser or tighter will ever matter.

Google probability expected value poker and read and watch everything that comes up in that search until you feel like you understand why it's good to get sucked out on. Then you can continue with your poker education.
My understanding of probability is exactly why it has been so frustrating. People calling pot size bets getting 3/1 with %6 equity and hitting. I totally get everything swings back and evens out in the long but the guy has had a 6 month luck run like iv never seen before and was just curious on specific strategies people have vs luck boxes they know. Also gto does almost no good vs players like him
 
You will never be a good poker player until you understand probability, and right now it seems like you don't. There is no luck in poker. If your opponent sucks out on you, that's good, because it means he called while he was behind. As long as he keeps doing that, you will win more often than you lose.
Unless you play against @MatB on Poker Mavens, where statistics don't apply. He is about 90% to hit runner runner flush, idk how but it is truth.
 
My understanding of probability is exactly why it has been so frustrating. People calling pot size bets getting 3/1 with %6 equity and hitting. I totally get everything swings back and evens out in the long but the guy has had a 6 month luck run like iv never seen before and was just curious on specific strategies people have vs luck boxes they know. Also gto does almost no good vs players like him
Okay I am going to take a swing at filling in the gap that @CrazyEddie is trying to explain with an additional thought. This is one of the many great life lessons poker can teach. In this case, it is recognizing a human flaw to round probability off to 1 or 0. There is a difference between 80% and 100% even though I think most people interpret 80% as a near certainty when in truth it means there will be a miss for every 4 times it hits. And that miss is every bit as real as the 4 hits, even if it is outnumbered.

To your example, there is a big difference between 6% and zero by a similar token. That means roughly for every 16 times the outcome doesn't happen, it will happen once. And the one time it happens is every bit as real as the 16 it doesn't. Just because it's near zero, doesn't mean the chance no longer exists.

I think it's easy to forget the 16 times and take it for granted which makes it sting extra when the one time hits. The 16 times aren't memorable. These spots are players quietly calling bets to draw slim and folding without incident when they miss. It's usually unnoticed and taken for grated. But even if 1 time in 17 is rare, the one time is real, and it comes up, and it's far more noticed than the mundane 16 times the outcome hits.

"Bad luck is just probability taken personally." - Penn Jillette

I think most people worried about bad luck are just overestimating it because instances of bad luck are far more recognizable specifically because they are rare. And instances of good luck are so mundane they get taken for granted.

If you are the better player, paradoxally, you are going to be drawn out on more often simply because you will have the best of it in many more spots than a sucker. It's part of playing a winning game. To steer this back to strategy, you beat players that don't fold by maximizing your value bets to compensate for the lumps. Your victories will be consistent, though quiet and forgotten. Your defeats will be memorable, but should be reassuring that you will continue to have the opportunity to quietly stack chips in the hands the villain misses.
 
Full disclaimer:

I know nothing about GTO
I am bad at poker
Come at me in poker with math and I'll show you the sunken place.


But with that said, the real secret to winning against a LAG villain is.......
 
I totally get everything swings back and evens out in the long
Are you sure you get this?

In fact, things don't "swing back". Probability isn't affected by what's happened in the past. Things are even in the long run, but they don't "even out" - you can expect that in the next 10,000 coin tosses there will be 5,000 heads and 5,000 tails, but if you start with a run of ten heads you can't expect that there will be only 4,990 heads afterwards in order to "even out" the first several tosses.

but the guy has had a 6 month luck run like iv never seen before
The most likely explanation is that you are drastically overestimating how often he hits versus what his actual odds are. This is natural. Humans are terrible at estimating probabilities and observing frequencies. Absolutely terrible at it. It's not just you, it's everyone. It's actually part of how our brains are hardwired, because there is an evolutionary advantage from selectively applying attention.

Another possibility is that he's cheating.

and was just curious on specific strategies people have vs luck boxes they know
This once again makes me think that you don't really understand probability. Luck plays no part in poker, and there's no strategy to use against people who are lucky.
 
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