Straddle Poll (1 Viewer)

[trigs]

I searched and couldn't find a poll on this.

What are the rules of straddling?

I know not everyone allows straddles, but if you do or play at games that does, what are the rules for it.

Just to be clear, my understanding of a Mississippi straddle is that any player (other than the SB and BB) can post a straddle for any amount at least double the BB in any position. If there is action before them, they can pull the straddle back and act accordingly (fold, call, or bet/raise). If it's folded around to them, their straddle stands and things progress normally for a straddled hand.

 

[Machine]

So typically, action would start after the straddle, and the straddle must be placed prior to any cards being dealt. At least prior to the straddler seeing any of their cards.

 

[RocAFella1]

I instituted the rule that the button is the last possible position to straddle from, with each straddle beginning from UTG+1 doubling the blind and the subsequent straddle with each consecutive straddle.

 

[trigs]

So typically, action would start after the straddle, and the straddle must be placed prior to any cards being dealt. At least prior to the straddler seeing any of their cards.

I allow the straddle as long as the player hasn't looked at their cards. But I understand the specific rule of straddling before cards are dealt.

 

[JoeBGo]

We allow a Mississippi straddle from the button for any amount, but if someone straddles UTG it kills the Mississippi.
If there’s a Mississippi, UTG acts first. Action continues in normal fashion, skips the button and goes back through the blinds and then back to the button as last to act. Unless someone raises the straddle and then action is handled normally.

 

[trigs]

I instituted the rule that the button is the last possible position to straddle from, with each straddle beginning from UTG+1 doubling the blind and the subsequent straddle with each consecutive straddle.

That's how I run it as well. Curious if that's the norm

 

[trigs]

We allow a Mississippi straddle from the button for any amount, but if someone straddles UTG it kills the Mississippi.
If there’s a Mississippi, UTG acts first. Action continues in normal fashion, skips the button and goes back through the blinds and then back to the button as last to act. Unless someone raises the straddle and then action is handled normally.

I feel like with a Mississippi straddle, I'd straddle the button every time. Isn't it +EV just to fuck with the table? Am I straddling huge with a potential bluff or maybe just double straddling with a monster or vice versa or am I just putting in whatever with the clear option to pull it back?

Yes, I know I don't know my hole cards yet lol

 

[Jimulacrum]

There's no one rule set for straddling. Typically it's governed by house rules. I've seen all of the rules here in play at some point.

What you've described as a "Mississippi straddle," I've heard called a "sleeper" because it's not active until the action triggers it.

My understanding of a Mississippi straddle is that it's a straddle from any position on the board and is not dependent on the other action, or may even dictate the start of the action (e.g., action starts to the left of the straddle).

I like straddling (both for recreation and as a game concept), but not these forms of straddling. They're too messy. Even a basic straddle can be off-putting for some players; weird straddles with complicated rules are probably not a good thing for the game, long-term.

Single optional straddle UTG is the best in most games.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I have documentation to back up my claims.

 

[JoeBGo]

I feel like with a Mississippi straddle, I'd straddle the button every time. Isn't it +EV just to fuck with the table? Am I straddling huge with a potential bluff or maybe just double straddling with a monster or vice versa or am I just putting in whatever with the clear option to pull it back?

Yes, I know I don't know my hole cards yet lol

I think it stays in check most times with UTG being able to cancel it out with a $4 straddle (we play $1/$2 mostly). If someone throws out a monster Mississippi, most of our players will straddle UTG to get rid of it. I would say an average Mississippi straddle in our game is $7-$11.

 

[satisfyingbutton]

I'll be honest and admit that I've never QUITE understood the idea behind straddling. It seems like a way to increase the amount that is bet overall on a specific hand. If so, why isn't it just a move to higher stakes? I'm not sure I see the strategic value. Unless it just buys you into a better position? It's like paying extra to essentially become the big blind? I readily admit that I'm not the world's greatest player, so I'm happy to be enlightened.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I'll be honest and admit that I've never QUITE understood the idea behind straddling. It seems like a way to increase the amount that is bet overall on a specific hand. If so, why isn't it just a move to higher stakes? I'm not sure I see the strategic value. Unless it just buys you into a better position? It's like paying extra to essentially become the big blind? I readily admit that I'm not the world's greatest player, so I'm happy to be enlightened.

Straddling can sometimes be EV+ when applied selectively under obliging game conditions.

It is usually just a recreational play because people like something or other about it (last action, bumped-up stakes, makes others uncomfortable, whatever).

 

[grandmeme]

I'll be honest and admit that I've never QUITE understood the idea behind straddling. It seems like a way to increase the amount that is bet overall on a specific hand. If so, why isn't it just a move to higher stakes? I'm not sure I see the strategic value. Unless it just buys you into a better position? It's like paying extra to essentially become the big blind? I readily admit that I'm not the world's greatest player, so I'm happy to be enlightened.

Straddles are mostly just for fun imo ahaha. In home game scenarios, I straddle because I feel like gambling it up and having a laugh whenever i defend with 62o or some random junk hand.

However this is different when I'm in the casino or in a bigger, more serious home game. As I'm relatively tight in these games, I straddle and kinda do whatever the whales are doing to give off the impression that I'm looser than what I actually am. It also makes the whale happy whenever they see this young asian (fitting the rich gambler stereotype) double, triple straddling it up and having a laugh.

Also helps if you get big hands when you straddle. My biggest pot won ever is when I quad straddled to $160 and picked up aces. So just get good hands when you straddle, and make sure you win all your all ins

 

[detroitdad]

Other, I allow straddling up to, but not including the button. I don't like button straddles so I don't allow it.

 

[200 Motels]

Unlimited straddle but always starts UTG and ends on the button. No button or winner straddle. Casino near me offers both button straddle and one utg straddle where the button straddle overrides the utg straddle, meaning if both want to straddle utg only gets the option if the button doesn't wish to.

We do unl straddles to from utg to the button in our 25c/25c NL/PLO game, but when we play 1/1 NL we disable straddles. The real degens get around that by just blind raising utg.

 

[upNdown]

I'll be honest and admit that I've never QUITE understood the idea behind straddling. It seems like a way to increase the amount that is bet overall on a specific hand. If so, why isn't it just a move to higher stakes? I'm not sure I see the strategic value. Unless it just buys you into a better position? It's like paying extra to essentially become the big blind? I readily admit that I'm not the world's greatest player, so I'm happy to be enlightened.

I believe you are correct. In a game of skill where you generally don’t have to put in any money until you want to (which generally translates to “until you have good cards”) a bet made blindly that essentially raises the stakes is the dumbest move in the game.
Straddling is basically for drunks and degens and people who want to play higher stakes.
I allow straddles in my game under the third option. People like it. And frankly I’m all for people making blind bets. I do so myself when I’m drunk.

 

[trigs]

I'd say in very select times or hands or games, straddling can be +EV. In general, it's degen going to degen though.

 

[Machine]

That's how I run it as well. Curious if that's the norm

Typically, they would call it 'worse position' gets priority. But we play it Button Priority, then worse position so that the button doesn't lose position.

 

[Machine]

I'll be honest and admit that I've never QUITE understood the idea behind straddling. It seems like a way to increase the amount that is bet overall on a specific hand. If so, why isn't it just a move to higher stakes? I'm not sure I see the strategic value. Unless it just buys you into a better position? It's like paying extra to essentially become the big blind? I readily admit that I'm not the world's greatest player, so I'm happy to be enlightened.

I think there is an argument for value based on game. PLO would likely see more opportunity than NLH, I guess you could break that down to just PL vs NL.

NLH has the advantage of increasing the pot size to just steal with an over bet of the sum of the pot, straddle for 15, 6 callers (90 in the pot) All in 723, statistically if they all call, significantly less likely someone is trapping with AA or KK, but in a PLO 6 way action bouncing a stack in, statistically you're more likely to get at least 2 callers and if first to act is one of them, then it will likely snowball.

Not to tap on the glass but in Omaha there are a wider range of hands you can raise with, straddling on the button can be +EV easy, also position can win a lot of hands depending on the game dynamics.

 

[dkersey]

Mine is closest to #3. Modified below.

UTG double BB, UTG+1 double last straddle, etc. - limited up to but not including the button and doubled each time.

 

[upNdown]

Mine is closest to #3. Modified below.

UTG double BB, UTG+1 double last straddle, etc. - limited up to but not including the button and doubled each time.

You’re the second guy I’ve read who does that but excludes the button, so I have to ask - does it ever even get close?
I’ve played in games that are much more straddley than mine, but I’ve never seen a straddle get doubled all the way around the table.
I suppose if you were playing 6-handed I could see it . . .

 

[Marius L]

You’re the second guy I’ve read who does that but excludes the button, so I have to ask - does it ever even get close?
I’ve played in games that are much more straddley than mine, but I’ve never seen a straddle get doubled all the way around the table.
I suppose if you were playing 6-handed I could see it . . .

Was thinking this as well. We allow straddles around the table if people want to, but its usually no more than 2 or three.

Shouldn't be a huge problem in close to full ring, and if someone wants to put in close to half their stack on the button as a straddle, why not allow it? Won't be much post flop play where you have an advantage of being in position anyways. Say you play 1/2 with 500 effective stacks. 8 handed. That means button is sixth to straddle, and has to put in 128. More likely than anything he will get pushed on preflop at that point if anyone has a decent holding.

 

[dkersey]

You’re the second guy I’ve read who does that but excludes the button, so I have to ask - does it ever even get close?
I’ve played in games that are much more straddley than mine, but I’ve never seen a straddle get doubled all the way around the table.
I suppose if you were playing 6-handed I could see it . . .

It does happen on rare occasions, usually late at night. Last month in my 8 handed .50/1 game, I did it in the cutoff position for $32...I regretted it after seeing my hand...

 

[Grandmasturkey]

If I told you, okay we're gonna play 1/2 but then everytime you're on the button we can play 2/5....isn't that a game you would play every single time?

 

[upNdown]

If I told you, okay we're gonna play 1/2 but then everytime you're on the button we can play 2/5....isn't that a game you would play every single time?

No, cause I hear those 2/5 guys are killers.

 

[Chawks45]

... Typically it's governed by house rules. ...

Agreed with this. Also, by region.

I do my home game based off what we see at the KC casinos, which has capped straddles (double the big blind) at Harrah's and Hollywood, with button having the priority. If button doesn't straddle, then the Mississippi Straddle comes into play and it can happen anywhere on the table except the blinds. I've played up the road on I-29 at the Horseshoe in Council Bluffs, and the same straddle rule applies with button having priority. I want to say the same applied when I was at the Horseshoe Hammond outside of Chicago this past summer. Midwest thing.

When I played at Philly Live a couple of years ago, I'm almost positive UTG had priority for the straddle. When I was in LA in November, UTG had priortity when I played at Hustler. If I'm not mistaken, some of the Vegas casinos give the button priority. I'm virtually certain that was the case when I played at the MGM, Bellagio, Wynn, South Point and Mandalay Bay.

Could be wrong on the above because they all start becoming the same

As for the straddle concept, I prefer the button having priority because that's what I'm used to when I degen at our local casinsos. I also like it because it will drive action and play bigger. A 1/2 and 1/3 game will quickly become a 2/5 game and a 2/5 game becomes a hybrid 5/10 game if a majority of the table straddles on any given hand. I can say my 1/2 game is essentially a 2/5 game because everyone straddles, and we're all OK with it.

But this is where bank roll management comes into play if a player knows they're sitting down at a straddled game and virtually the entire table straddles: don't play it if the game plays bigger and beyond means.

 

[Kain8]

Straddling in an unknown lineup is always a meta call. If you're at a casino with super weak opposition, it could easily pay huge dividends when you're able to get stacks in on the flop / turn as a big favourite.

In home games, do it to be social and gambooool if you like, especially if you're playing some games with structured betting.

 

[satisfyingbutton]

Thanks for the measured and detailed replies. It's also great to know I'm not way off base.

 

[toothpic]

We let UTG straddle then the person after that, after that and so on all the way to the button (which is pretty rare). Most of the time it's just a single or double straddle if any at all. I'm not a fan of a button straddle or Mississippi straddle.

We also don't limit the amount you can straddle as long as it's a legitimate raise. In our 1/2 games it very often goes 1/2/5 etc. When someone is feeling frisky it goes 1/2/10 or 1/2/5/20

 

[Roslindale]

We play two cash games.. depending on the night and crowd.

10c/20c with a $25 buy-in. Rebuy 60% of big stack to $60. In this game, straddle is 50c from UTG, with a cap of 3 straddles of 50c, $1,$2

In our 25c/25c game. Buy-in is $40, with re-buys 60% of big stack to $80. Straddle is 75c from UTG, to 3 straddles of 75c,$1.50,$3.

We also use a kill button in both games. When the kill is on, we play a hand of pineapple.

 

[trigs]

You’re the second guy I’ve read who does that but excludes the button, so I have to ask - does it ever even get close?
I’ve played in games that are much more straddley than mine, but I’ve never seen a straddle get doubled all the way around the table.
I suppose if you were playing 6-handed I could see it . . .

I've gotten up to $32 doubling from $0.50 BB in my home game. I allow all the way around to button to straddle but stop it there. I also have had players paying other players' straddles in order to keep the straddle going.