Tourney Starting stacks for mixed games tournaments

dmoney

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Are more starting chips required in starting stacks for mixed games? Would 8/8/4/7 even be playable for a 10k mixed game, as opposed to 12/12/5/6, or something else? Let's say in a hypothetical game where (borrowed from @BGinGA):

6-8 players per table - change game every 1 orbit
3-5 players - change game every 2 orbits
heads-up - change game every blind level increase

What is the ideal starting stack breakdown for an 8-person T10k using the 2019 WSOP $1,500 HORSE Structure? What about two tables i.e. more than 8 players?
 

DaneWoj

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More chips help speed up the game due to less making change.

for my experience running at 6 max and a FT of 7 works best. The games can take more time to deal vs a NLHE game.

expect your players to complain abt stacks being short. It’s just the nature of limit games. I’d say start w 50 big bets. Anything more is just meaningless poker.
 

dmoney

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More chips help speed up the game due to less making change.

for my experience running at 6 max and a FT of 7 works best. The games can take more time to deal vs a NLHE game.

expect your players to complain abt stacks being short. It’s just the nature of limit games. I’d say start w 50 big bets. Anything more is just meaningless poker.
Thanks - my question is more about how to structure said 50 big bet starting stack.

For example: two 5k chips obviously would not be playable for the 10k. A rack of t100s per player is also not viable, and 400 t25s per player is unwieldy.

8/8/4/7 seems like there would be too much change-making. 12/12/5/6 seems playable, but is that the optimal stack breakdown?
 

BGinGA

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12/12/5/6 is certainly playable, as is 12/12/7/5 (which is even more so for fixed limit or mixed games). I strongly recommend avoiding 'smaller' stacks such as 8/8/4/7 or 8/8/6/6, since having ~50% more early 'working chips' (29-30 vs just 20-22 per player) noticeably improves game play and psychologically promotes action. Although they play a very minor role initially, color-ups should use T1000 chips to ensure that enough are in play once they become needed in the second half of the event.

Stack size vs set size and playability vs efficiency are always at odds to some degree, especially when factoring in cost. But if game play is the primary consideration (and cost/efficiency are discounted), then bigger stack sizes can easily be justified.

Several larger 'non-standard' starting stacks containing 37 to 42 early 'working chips' each -- 12/17/8/4, 12/17/10/3, 16/16/8/4, 16/16/10/3, and even 20/20/15 (with 55 chips!) -- all offer improved game play during the first half of fixed-limit and mixed-game format tournaments, without the associated downsides involved when trying to use similar stacks for big-bet no-limit and pot-limit events.
 

dmoney

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12/12/5/6 is certainly playable, as is 12/12/7/5 (which is even more so for fixed limit or mixed games). I strongly recommend avoiding 'smaller' stacks such as 8/8/4/7 or 8/8/6/6, since having ~50% more early 'working chips' (29-30 vs just 20-22 per player) noticeably improves game play and psychologically promotes action. Although they play a very minor role initially, color-ups should use T1000 chips to ensure that enough are in play once they become needed in the second half of the event.

Stack size vs set size and playability vs efficiency are always at odds to some degree, especially when factoring in cost. But if game play is the primary consideration (and cost/efficiency are discounted), then bigger stack sizes can easily be justified.

Several larger 'non-standard' starting stacks containing 37 to 42 early 'working chips' each -- 12/17/8/4, 12/17/10/3, 16/16/8/4, 16/16/10/3, and even 20/20/15 (with 55 chips!) -- all offer improved game play during the first half of fixed-limit and mixed-game format tournaments, without the associated downsides involved when trying to use similar stacks for big-bet no-limit and pot-limit events.
This is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you @BGinGA. And what are the general rules for limit/mixed games regarding when they will end e.g. “tourney will end when x number of big bets are in play”?

Based on your previous post I would likely accommodate up to 13 players at 12/12/5/6. How long could I expect it to last with levels of 15- 20- or 30-minutes?
 

BGinGA

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This is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you @BGinGA. And what are the general rules for limit/mixed games regarding when they will end e.g. “tourney will end when x number of big bets are in play”?

Based on your previous post I would likely accommodate up to 13 players at 12/12/5/6. How long could I expect it to last with levels of 15- 20- or 30-minutes?
Surprisingly, most fixed-limit events run about the same number of levels as the 'total-20bb-in-play' max-level calculations for big-bet events; occasionally one or two levels longer (very rarely shorter). So the 20bb rule end-time estimate works for both, with big-bet games ending slightly sooner, and fixed-limt games running slightly longer.

This is generally true regardless of the game type (Hold'em, Omaha, Razz, Stud, HORSE, etc.), although events with split-pot games (O8, Stud8, Scrotum8, SOHE, etc.) can sometimes take a little bit longer still to knock out the final contestants.
 

dmoney

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Surprisingly, most fixed-limit events run about the same number of levels as the 'total-20bb-in-play' max-level calculations for big-bet events; occasionally one or two levels longer (very rarely shorter). So the 20bb rule end-time estimate works for both, with big-bet games ending slightly sooner, and fixed-limt games running slightly longer.

This is generally true regardless of the game type (Hold'em, Omaha, Razz, Stud, HORSE, etc.), although events with split-pot games (O8, Stud8, Scrotum8, SOHE, etc.) can sometimes take a little bit longer still to knock out the final contestants.
Another spot-on post. Many thanks!
 
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