Staking dispute involving Cate Hall gone public (1 Viewer)

My understanding is that a makeup is never owed if you leave the game permanently.
 
If I followed this correctly, she claims they agreed over the phone that if she left poker, then she wouldn't owe him money and he disagrees. This is why written agreements are important. It is also dumb on his end to let someone get 60k in the hole.
 
Super interesting.

Seems to me that Cate is legally in the right but it's kind of a scummy thing to do and situation she's created.
 
I’d much rather invest my money in a boring index mutual fund. I’m thinking tax avoidance is one of the reasons poker players invest in poker players, but it’s crazy to me. Then again being a poker pro is crazy to me.
 
she has a law degree, she should know better than to say a deal over the phone is good enough for a binding agreement
 
Never was a fan of Cate. After reading this, it just cements that.
 
As someone who professionally audits contracts for a living.....this situation is pretty much what you can expect to happen with verbal agreements. Happens often enough with written contracts as it is. I wouldn’t assume bad faith or intentions on either side. Reasonable people can understand the same words very differently.

Sucks for everyone involved I guess.

For me, poker is a game I play for entertainment. The idea of making a living from it would ruin the experience.
 
Agreed, but no meeting of the minds = no contract

You are correct. That’s why written contracts are better because there is a higher probability of discovering you do not have a meeting of the minds. With oral agreements we tend to hear what we want to hear and then presume there is a meeting of the minds when there is not.
 
I guess my point is, if there's no meeting of the minds, there's no contract. Make each party whole by offsetting her $60k hold by whatever she's paid in winnings.

I haven't read his response but I tend to agree with Cate that 50% of the profits and 100% of the loans is a pretty usurious loan rate.
 
I guess my point is, if there's no meeting of the minds, there's no contract. Make each party whole by offsetting her $60k hold by whatever she's paid in winnings.

I haven't read his response but I tend to agree with Cate that 50% of the profits and 100% of the loans is a pretty usurious loan rate.

I read a couple pages of the thread, and it sounds like Cate never made any profit while under the staking arrangement, so there's nothing to withhold.

Also, I think "50% of the profits, 100% of the loans" is a misrepresentation of the agreement (the backer says) they had. First, he's incurring a good bit of risk by bankrolling a poker player to move up in stakes. Also, he claims that after making a small amount of profit, the player share of profit goes up to 67%. Finally, the backer has the option (and sometimes exercises it) of ending the staking agreement, which in this case voids any makeup that the horse may owe.

I see benefit for both parties here: the backer can make good money off of a solid player, and the player gets bankroll protection and the ability to move up in stakes faster than they could if they were self-funded.

The obvious downside for the player is that if it doesn't work out, you're obligated to grind lower stakes to pay off your debt unless the backer releases you from the staking agreement (which does sometimes happen).

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending her or her actions (which do sound a bit on the unethical side), I'm just explaining what I think the upside of staking is for the player.
 
I didn’t read it the whole thing but will chime in that I have know 2 people that were staked. Both ended up being pretty short term arrangements. Either the horse is truly good enough and make enough money to go on their own soon enough or the horse loses a substantial amount of money that the backer no longer feels comfortable investing more money into the player.

I can’t think of any situation in which I would look be backed or back another player.

I have tried to buy a piece of my friend that made the deep WSOP main event run 2 years ago, but that is a different scenario completely but can still have similar issues come out of it.
 
I know it's wrong but, after seeing that trainwreck of a thread, i had to fight the urge to post "Ya... and it's her fault the 4th Boat Chip purchase was cancelled as well!" and just watch the confusion happen...
 
I know it's wrong but, after seeing that trainwreck of a thread, i had to fight the urge to post "Ya... and it's her fault the 4th Boat Chip purchase was cancelled as well!" and just watch the confusion happen...
You didn’t put up a very good fight because you still found a way to post this.
 
So a horse and her backer have a dispute over the terms of the agreement and they both agree to submit it tomorrow binding arbitration. The arbitrators decide, the backer doesn't like it, and says he will expose the deal unless he gets his way.

Cate may be scummy, as her backer suggests, but to me, nothing before the arbitrators' decision matters (except to the extent that it helps them arrive at their decision).

One thing that did strike me, tho, was Cate's offer to give legal advice to other potential horses. That was shortly after saying she hadn't practiced law in awhile. I don't know for sure whether she's maintained her law license, but the unauthorized practice of law is not something that's taken lightly. If she doesn't have a license, that tweet could get her into a lot of trouble, IMO.
 
This.

Poker 101, don't play above your means.

Poker 102, don't give money to someone playing above their means.

Poker 103, never draw to the inside straight.... unless it seems like a good idea at the time.
 

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