Speed Cloth vs Suede/Betting Line or Not?

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#1
I'm thinking about getting a second poker table and I wanted to get some opinions on the playing surface.

First, I was considering getting a playing surface with a betting line. I like the idea of one and the look. Also, I occasionally host games with newbie players and I think having a betting line would help with betting errors and splashed pots. However, I would assume that just adding a betting line is going to up the price as it would be considered a customized upgrade. Do you think it's worth the price just for a betting line? Are there any reasons not to use a betting line that I'm not considering? I'm not really interested in putting any images on the playing surface - I personally find them kind of distracting, so paying for an upgrade just for the line does seem like a waste of money. Obviously, if getting a playing surface with a betting line does not count as a customized upgrade, I will most likely get it.

Second, speed cloth or casino suede dye sublimation cloth? From what I've read and experienced, the cards slide much easier on speed cloth but suede has a much softer and nicer feel. I hate playing on tables where looking at hole cards is a pain, but being able to easily deal the length of the table is definitely nice. Any opinions?
 

bsdunbar1

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#2
I have owned every combination of what you are looking into.
1) gaming suede from @T_Chan is the way to go. More expensive yes but definitely worth the upgrade. Your table should last years and 16 months from now you won’t even remember what the difference in price was.
2) betting line - YES. I never owned a table with a betting line until I started getting cloths from t_chan and since I have, I never want to go back. All my players feel the same way and none of them are even close to poker snobs like we are here lol.
 

BGinGA

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#3
Gotta agree with @bsdunbar1 -- I've built many tables (for myself and others) using suited speed cloth (SSC), which I still adore as a playing surface in terms of looks, feel, and durability. But when it became time a couple of years ago to replace my main table's playing surface, I picked up a custom gaming suede layout from @T_Chan .

I went with a standard poker green fake suited speed cloth pattern with a simple 1/2" black betting line added on. It looks spectacular, plays great, feels fantastic, and having a defined betting line is a huge bonus in my book. Unless specifically requested otherwise, I'll never use anything else again going forward on my tables or any that I build for others.
 
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#4
I agree with the sentiment above. I too didn't want a flashy cloth, but wanted a betting line. Ultimately, since I was getting a custom, I went for subtle detail. I had @chipjoker design up some graphics that emulated the look of speed cloth, but replaced the suits with the letter "B". Solid betting line with a fade. I think it turned out great.
D3C5EF50-1B60-4295-ACEA-43AB15EB18AF.jpeg
887B0244-82CF-4FB1-B2AB-801C7EC5631A.jpeg
 
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#6
I agree with the sentiment above. I too didn't want a flashy cloth, but wanted a betting line. Ultimately, since I was getting a custom, I went for subtle detail. I had @chipjoker design up some graphics that emulated the look of speed cloth, but replaced the suits with the letter "B". Solid betting line with a fade. I think it turned out great.
View attachment 181468 View attachment 181469
Dood, that table is fudgin' awesome!
 
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#7
Betting line for sure.

As far as whether you go with a Chanman cloth, that's entirely up to you and your budget, but I would *highly* recommend it if you can. There are no substitutes. I have two tables with custom cloths and in the future I will have a third (poker, blackjack, roulette).
 

BGinGA

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#9
I've never heard anyone say "I wish this cloth didn't have a betting line"
Actually, I have..... twice, in fact. But both times the line location was really poorly thought out and placed.

One table layout had so little room outside of the line that your cards were always straddling the line at a minimum. There was literally 1.5" of room outside for chips, cards, and counting out bets. We ended up ignoring it, as it just wasn't practical.

The other table was just the opposite. 36" of felt across from rail to rail, with 12" from the rail to the betting line (making the width of the betting zone also a "symmetrical" 12 inches wide, according to the desgner). Not quite as bad as the too narrow felt above, but no betting line at all would have been preferable. The end seats almost had no room to place bets if adjacent seats were also betting.... not to mention the cramped inner circle with board cards, chip pot, muck pile, burn cards, and current bets all competing for very limited space.
 

T_Chan

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#10
So true, it all depends on design. 6-10" distance from the rail to the betting line shouldn't ever be an issue for people. Enough space for cards and chips, but not so much that you sacrifice the center area for the board, muck and pot.

I can't imagine trying to play on either of those tables while trying to abide by the betting line.
 
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#11
I'm not a fan of the betting line - I think it introduces a lot more angleshooting opportunities than you have with the forward motion rule.

That said, I think a betting line as an aesthetic choice can look really nice on a custom felt. And it gives you the option to play with or without a betting line rule, whereas you don't have that option if there's no line.
 

72o

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#12
I love the look and functionality of a betting line. It just adds that extra touch needed to bring your table to the next level.

And a huge recommendation for some @T_Chan gaming suede (as stated above too). It is awesome and love dealing on this stuff.

For reference, I went with 7” clear from rail to betting line and love it.

A0EC85B2-D9A2-4FCA-88DD-9D8F970B420B.jpeg
 
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#13
I went with 7” clear from rail to betting line.
Is there a standard length? What length do others suggest? I was thinking 8 inches at least. I'd like to have a decent amount of space for cards and chips but I also don't want the line being too far that betting requires you to stretch.
 
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#14
I was considering something very simple like a dark grey around the perimeter and a light grey in the center with a 1/2" black betting line.
 

Trihonda

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#15
If going custom you can use whatever you want to actually make up the betting line. (Bike themed table). Granted I know you’re not into flashy.

From a distance it looks somewhat solid, up close there are a lot of subtle details...

A8DC1F7E-EB31-4D8B-986D-535FE430B496.jpeg


BC0C9DA7-F426-4375-9AA6-A98278592B6D.jpeg


As for the Chan cloths. The absolute nutz. Best surface period. Get one and Never look back ...
 

Coyote

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#16
A betting line is a must, IMO, for table neatness and order, and player discipline and education.
There are two ways to get it:

-SSC with a betting line drawn with a good paint marker (steady hand and a lot of attention required, much harder for a round table where all of the line is a curve). Decent but clearly short of ideal. Take a look here:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/putting-a-betting-line-on-speed-cloth.5340/#post-537472
I am not aware of genuine SSC being sold with a betting line, with the exception of faux, china-made SSC on cheap tables and toppers.

-More expensive, but clearly best solution, is the custom game suede cloth by Chanman tables. You don't have to have any image printed, just the betting line, and it's still worth the money, IMO.
A huge extra is you 'll have the pleasure to work with @T_Chan !
 
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#17
I like betting lines for aesthetic reasons, but hate it when the casino (or host) wants to enforce rules regarding chips over the betting line. Nothing but trouble, imo. I believe most casinos that experimented with that have pulled back. Angle shooters will be angle shooters. You just have to deal with them or not invite them back.
 

72o

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#18
Is there a standard length? What length do others suggest? I was thinking 8 inches at least. I'd like to have a decent amount of space for cards and chips but I also don't want the line being too far that betting requires you to stretch.
I don’t beleive there is a standard for this. 8” would be fine. I guess porportions play into it as well. I have a 35” playing surface (from inside rail to inside rail). 7-1/2” outside betting line leaves about 20” inside betting line.

2BDB0ED0-E52E-48D1-A97A-E2A4B40EAF2D.jpeg
166F0420-902F-4DCB-B424-3BFC9589A3F1.jpeg
 

jlb2782

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#19
If going custom you can use whatever you want to actually make up the betting line. (Bike themed table). Granted I know you’re not into flashy.

From a distance it looks somewhat solid, up close there are a lot of subtle details...

View attachment 181551

View attachment 181550

As for the Chan cloths. The absolute nutz. Best surface period. Get one and Never look back ...
The tire chain as the line is badass.
 
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#20
So true, it all depends on design. 6-10" distance from the rail to the betting line shouldn't ever be an issue for people. Enough space for cards and chips, but not so much that you sacrifice the center area for the board, muck and pot.

I can't imagine trying to play on either of those tables while trying to abide by the betting line.
If going custom you can use whatever you want to actually make up the betting line. (Bike themed table). Granted I know you’re not into flashy.

From a distance it looks somewhat solid, up close there are a lot of subtle details...

View attachment 181551

View attachment 181550

As for the Chan cloths. The absolute nutz. Best surface period. Get one and Never look back ...
that is awesome didn’t even notice the chain but then I clicked on pic awesome detail
 
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#23
Are there any reports/testimonials on the new cloth from Chanman?

Can someone make a video showing the slide of the cards?

Thanks,
Mark
 

Lemonzest

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#24
I'm not a fan of the betting line - I think it introduces a lot more angleshooting opportunities than you have with the forward motion rule.

That said, I think a betting line as an aesthetic choice can look really nice on a custom felt. And it gives you the option to play with or without a betting line rule, whereas you don't have that option if there's no line.
Agreed. Especially for new players emphasis should be on verbal action.

Rules are different everywhere when it comes to using the line or forward motion etc.
 
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#27
I’ve been playing on SSC and it does feel rough I prefer the casinos felt over SSC
I went to Joann fabric looking around they had a couple pieces that I guess were suede velvet and they felt close to casino but they were not waterproof
 
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#28
Gaming Suede > SSC (buy I don't mind good SSC)
Betting Line > None

But if playing on SSC no betting line looks better. Betting lines on SSC usually don't look near as good IMO. Has something to do with the textured surface.
 

BGinGA

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#29
I had Tony print a betting line on a gaming suede felt that has a faux SSC pattern. Best of both worlds -- softness of suede, nice ssc pattern, with a betting line bonus. Looks and plays great.
 
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#30
I had Tony print a betting line on a gaming suede felt that has a faux SSC pattern. Best of both worlds -- softness of suede, nice ssc pattern, with a betting line bonus. Looks and plays great.
If you want any kind of upgrade over normal speedcloth (which works great IMHO), ^^this^^ is the way to go. Tony added the SSC pattern to my cloth as well, it looks great. There's obviously the premium in going from SSC to the custom cloth but Tony's prices are very reasonable.
 
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