Sneaking out of the casino with chips (1 Viewer)

[linux]

So I'm a new guy and lately have bought a couple racks of 1's, one of which I believe is from an existing casino, so live, redeemable chips. On further reading it seems like members make regular runs to casinos to purchase 1's, maybe 5's? but mostly 1's. One thread I read (can't find it now) alluded to some issue of 'getting the chips out...' and that got me wondering if the casinos frown on chippers walking out with their chips.

It's been may years since I've even been to a casino but I don't recall ever getting chips at a cage, only turning them in for cash. The chips come from the tables so I guess you have to pay for chips on a table and then leave for them.

How does this work? Wondering because now that I'm in this hobby I'll be making a trip to Phoenix and may divert to LV for a day or two or certainly visit the local 'Talking Stick' casino.

 

[pluto]

Casinos with poker rooms are much easier to harvest $1 chips. It's not uncommon to get a rack or two of $1s from the cage in the poker room, while it's really uncommon to purchase racks of chips at the cage in a regular casino.

I'll save you some disappointment, the chips at Talking Stick are trash ceramics, not worth harvesting.

 

[ekricket]

Mostly it’s taking them from the table games while playing.

I usually ask a floor man to help me. I say (insert your story here, my go to is I’m trying to get some chips together for a bachelor party and they have really pretty chips). About half the time they help out, directing me to tables and instructing dealers to sell me barrels - Sams Town was like this until they got raped.
A couple times they asked what I wanted and went to the back and got them - believe it or not this happened at circus circus the second day of their new chips.

I’ve bought them from the cage before in a california card room and told them I was walking out the door with them and their answer was “once you paid for them I dont care what you do with them” so two racks of yellow leaded THC walked out the door.

So make an exploratory trip and ask. If they aren’t helpful, harvesting at craps is the easiest, make a few bets, accumulate a few barrels, just put them in your pocket like you always do it. If you feel scrutiny walk away and come back later with new shift.

 

[ekricket]

Another line I’ve used, and it’s pretty true, Is that my wife doesn’t like it when I gamble. So it makes it easier for me to buy the chips first, then later when I want to play it makes it easier to tell the wife I’m going since I already have chips. Sounds goofy enough to be true, and bros help bros.

 

[Okku]

I've had an easy time asking the poker room cage if I can buy X amount of chips of $1s, $5s, $10s, $20s, $25s for example when they have all those denoms. Nobody really asks what you are doing buying those certain amounts (if you had a preset amount) but I've never had any trouble buying chips directly from the cage.

I remember I went to a smaller local casino once and said I wanted to buy a few of the new Chinese New Year chips. The lady looked at me and asked if I had a voucher, which I didn't. I didn't even know you needed one or they had them. So, she still sold the chips to me and then started talking with her co-worker about it, "I see what they are doing with these chips.... They are collecting them!" I just started smiling and they even had airtites readily available behind the counter.

The #1 thing I always do is tip the person you are dealing with. Most don't expect to get anything, but I always try to help them out if I can because they are helping me out. Only positive experiences over here.

 

[jdub]

At my local cardroom, I asked the floor. His response same as above, "You paid for 'em. Do what you want." They had Paulsons.

$1s are cheaper in the casino than you might find on the secondary market. Given the cardroom's respone to me, I think they might get their $1s cheaper than $1 a piece.

Fives from the casino, might be cheaper, might be more expensive than the secondary market. Cardroom likely profits on $5s going home with you.

If you take $25s home, the cardroom would profit immensely.

 

[ekricket]

At my local cardroom, I asked the floor. His response same as above, "You paid for 'em. Do what you want." They had Paulsons.

$1s are cheaper in the casino than you might find on the secondary market. Given the cardroom's respone to me, I think they might get their $1s cheaper than $1 a piece.

Fives from the casino, might be cheaper, might be more expensive than the secondary market. Cardroom likely profits on $5s going home with you.

If you take $25s home, the cardroom would profit immensely.

I’m not sure if they don’t have to keep cash in escrow equal to the amount they have issued in chips. Otherwise the float in chips out there might eventually be more than the casino is worth and in that case they could face gaming commission problems wherever they are. They may only need a percentage. But it would be whack if they didn’t have to keep some, which is not profit it’s money they can’t use. And if your not using your money you are losing money on it. So profit? I don’t know. It may just mean they have to divert investment capital to a savings account.

 

[jdub]

I didn't even consider gaming commission / bank issues.

If chips go south on a particular day, the casino would have excess cash. They can cover all claims.

If all the chips that went south over the years all came back on the same day, the casino might not be able to cover all claims. That could spell trouble.

I doubt a casino keeps cash on hand equal to all of the chips that they have ever purchased, but no longer show up in inventory. I'd love to hear an insiders take on this topic. Do we know any casino bigshots here at PCF?

 

[Bill_Man618]

I didn't even consider gaming commission / bank issues.

If chips go south on a particular day, the casino would have excess cash. They can cover all claims.

If all the chips that went south over the years all came back on the same day, the casino might not be able to cover all claims. That could spell trouble.

I doubt a casino keeps cash on hand equal to all of the chips that they have ever purchased, but no longer show up in inventory. I'd love to hear an insiders take on this topic. Do we know any casino bigshots here at PCF?

I’m not an insider by any means but I’ve done some research about casino and gaming laws over the years. As far as I understand if they have to keep cash on had for all chips that can be redeemed. So it would be for all primary cash chips. So if you leave with a chip I don’t think that profit is actually recognized until they call them back for redemption. Once they call them back the total ammount of uncashed chips would be a profit to the casino. I think it’s different state by state, but most states use that law I think.

 

[grantc54]

I’m not an insider by any means but I’ve done some research about casino and gaming laws over the years. As far as I understand if they have to keep cash on had for all chips that can be redeemed. So it would be for all primary cash chips. So if you leave with a chip I don’t think that profit is actually recognized until they call them back for redemption. Once they call them back the total ammount of uncashed chips would be a profit to the casino. I think it’s different state by state, but most states use that law I think.

Imagine a casino responding to a cash out with "come back tomorrow when we have more cash on hand".

I had this once with cashing out a $500 scratch ticket where they told me to come back at a specific time when they had more cash on hand. But that makes sense, over $200 its at their discretion.

 

[Bill_Man618]

Imagine a casino responding to a cash out with "come back tomorrow when we have more cash on hand".

I had this once with cashing out a $500 scratch ticket where they told me to come back at a specific time when they had more cash on hand. But that makes sense, over $200 its at their discretion.

Hold on what happened now? You’re telling me that a CASINO where there’s presumably multiple tables of poker and table games. A place where there will be likely more than $500 single bets told you that they didn’t have enough cash on hand to cash out $500? That’s insane! I mean if that’s the case how exactly are they planning to cash everyone else out?

 

[linux]

Casinos with poker rooms are much easier to harvest $1 chips. It's not uncommon to get a rack or two of $1s from the cage in the poker room, while it's really uncommon to purchase racks of chips at the cage in a regular casino.

I'll save you some disappointment, the chips at Talking Stick are trash ceramics, not worth harvesting.

Ha, thank you. Since I don't really gamble (just like poker chips) except maybe 30 min. at the craps table I won't waste the trip.

 

[grantc54]

Hold on what happened now? You’re telling me that a CASINO where there’s presumably multiple tables of poker and table games. A place where there will be likely more than $500 single bets told you that they didn’t have enough cash on hand to cash out $500? That’s insane! I mean if that’s the case how exactly are they planning to cash everyone else out?

No, sorry, wasnt clear. I was cashing out the scratch ticket at a mall kiosk.

I was saying it would be bizarre and unacceptable to have the same thing happen at a casino when cashing out chips. If the gaming laws didnt state they have the cash to cover chips I could see cases where a casino who didnt have good cash handling could fall short (also ala Full Tilt).

 

[joepro]

Sneaking out of the casino with chips (3 Viewers)

“Harvesting” sounds so much better!

 

[linux]

Sneaking out of the casino with chips (3 Viewers)

“Harvesting” sounds so much better!

Ha, I agree.

 

[allforcharity]

Sneaking out of the casino with chips (3 Viewers)

“Harvesting” sounds so much better!

To-may-to, to-mah-to.

 

[CrazyEddie]

So I'm a new guy and lately have bought a couple racks of 1's, one of which I believe is from an existing casino, so live, redeemable chips. On further reading it seems like members make regular runs to casinos to purchase 1's, maybe 5's? but mostly 1's. One thread I read (can't find it now) alluded to some issue of 'getting the chips out...' and that got me wondering if the casinos frown on chippers walking out with their chips.

It's been may years since I've even been to a casino but I don't recall ever getting chips at a cage, only turning them in for cash. The chips come from the tables so I guess you have to pay for chips on a table and then leave for them.

How does this work? Wondering because now that I'm in this hobby I'll be making a trip to Phoenix and may divert to LV for a day or two or certainly visit the local 'Talking Stick' casino.

For more tips and tricks about getting live chips from a casino, search the forum for "harvesting"

or just click here: https://www.google.com/search?q=site:pokerchipforum.com+harvesting

 

[CrazyEddie]

I’m not sure if they don’t have to keep cash in escrow equal to the amount they have issued in chips. Otherwise the float in chips out there might eventually be more than the casino is worth and in that case they could face gaming commission problems wherever they are. They may only need a percentage. But it would be whack if they didn’t have to keep some, which is not profit it’s money they can’t use. And if your not using your money you are losing money on it. So profit? I don’t know. It may just mean they have to divert investment capital to a savings account.

Casinos are not merely allowed but in fact required to assume that a certain portion of the chips they issue for cash will remain uncashed, and accordingly they must therefore account for it as revenue (and pay taxes on it).

Casinos would prefer not to do this. They know full well that there will be uncashed chips and that those uncashed chips are a revenue source for them, but they would prefer not to recognize that on their ledger and very specifically would prefer not to pay taxes on it. They would prefer to say that every single chip that's floating out there in the universe represents a liability - a claim against their cash holdings. And it's true that most of them are! But the tax authorities force them to recognize that some of them are not.

How much of the chip float is recognized as revenue, and when it is recognized as revenue, is a matter of some contention. When a series of chips is retired and removed from circulation, the casinos offer a limited period in which holders can still redeem the retired chips for cash. Once that period ends, the casinos unquestionably have to recognize any unredeemed (and now unredeemable) chips as revenue. But there are other ways to account for these unredeemed chips rather than waiting until they are retired; the total unclaimed float can be estimated every year, and then that estimate used to adjust the casino's recognized income for that year.

If you're at all interested in the topic, then this UNLV Gaming Law Journal article is both extremely informative and super fascinating.

I’m not sure if they don’t have to keep cash in escrow equal to the amount they have issued in chips. Otherwise the float in chips out there might eventually be more than the casino is worth

Never fear! The total chip float is minuscule compared to the net worth of the casino, or in fact even compared to the casino's daily profit. Casinos make ridiculous amounts of money.

 

[coolguy101]

Casinos are not merely allowed but in fact required to assume that a certain portion of the chips they issue for cash will remain uncashed, and accordingly they must therefore account for it as revenue (and pay taxes on it).

Casinos would prefer not to do this. They know full well that there will be uncashed chips and that those uncashed chips are a revenue source for them, but they would prefer not to recognize that on their ledger and very specifically would prefer not to pay taxes on it. They would prefer to say that every single chip that's floating out there in the universe represents a liability - a claim against their cash holdings. And it's true that most of them are! But the tax authorities force them to recognize that some of them are not.

How much of the chip float is recognized as revenue, and when it is recognized as revenue, is a matter of some contention. When a series of chips is retired and removed from circulation, the casinos offer a limited period in which holders can still redeem the retired chips for cash. Once that period ends, the casinos unquestionably have to recognize any unredeemed (and now unredeemable) chips as revenue. But there are other ways to account for these unredeemed chips rather than waiting until they are retired; the total unclaimed float can be estimated every year, and then that estimate used to adjust the casino's recognized income for that year.

If you're at all interested in the topic, then this UNLV Gaming Law Journal article is both extremely informative and super fascinating.



Never fear! The total chip float is minuscule compared to the net worth of the casino, or in fact even compared to the casino's daily profit. Casinos make ridiculous amounts of money.

Sure, all big business can afford a little theft and shoplifting, right? That makes it ok for you to take what you want without permission.

IMO, if casinos give permission to “harvest” chips, then there is no issue. But if they say no, and you do it anyway, that’s theft.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Sure, all big business can afford a little theft and shoplifting, right? That makes it ok for you to take what you want without permission.

I have no idea how you got that out of what I said above.

But at any rate, if you'd like to discuss the ethics of chip harvesting, there's a thread for that.

 

[chipchatter]

Been thinking about harvesting some $1’s for home games recently as well. Couple Indian casinos around me use paulsons and they’d be so cheap at $1

 

[jdub]

I think it's time Eddie got a promotion. Let him now be known as DoctorCrazy.

The link is really interesting.

 

[coolguy101]

I have no idea how you got that out of what I said above.

But at any rate, if you'd like to discuss the ethics of chip harvesting, there's a thread for that.

Yes, I know. I posted there before

 

[bernielomax]

As far as harvesting goes, I reckon if any of the senior executives actually heard about the practice, the conversation would go something like this:

"So they're spending $1 to buy chips that cost us $1.25 and taking them home?"
Yes, sir.
"So each chip they take costs us twenty-five cents?"
Yes, sir.
"But they came into the casino to buy them?"
Yes, sir.
"And after they came in they sat at the tables and played poker for a while?"
Yes, sir.

"Let 'em come. They can keep the twenty-five cents."

For me, I think this post was the best part of the "ethics of chip harvesting" thread.

I am sure a conversation like this has come up before.

The true decision makers at casinos know what they are doing.

 

[ekricket]

For me, I think this post was the best part of the "ethics of chip harvesting" thread.

I am sure a conversation like this has come up before.

The true decision makers at casinos know what they are doing.

Honestly in some cases maybe they don’t know exactly, and there’s no upside to taking unknown risk if you end up being some kind of scam. So it’s less risk to just say no and keep doing the usual business.
Not saying this is always the case but maybe it plays into it sometimes.

 

[bergs]

So I'm a new guy and lately have bought a couple racks of 1's, one of which I believe is from an existing casino, so live, redeemable chips. On further reading it seems like members make regular runs to casinos to purchase 1's, maybe 5's? but mostly 1's. One thread I read (can't find it now) alluded to some issue of 'getting the chips out...' and that got me wondering if the casinos frown on chippers walking out with their chips.

It's been may years since I've even been to a casino but I don't recall ever getting chips at a cage, only turning them in for cash. The chips come from the tables so I guess you have to pay for chips on a table and then leave for them.

How does this work? Wondering because now that I'm in this hobby I'll be making a trip to Phoenix and may divert to LV for a day or two or certainly visit the local 'Talking Stick' casino.

Talking Stick chips are a bit rubbish, but if you want some fairly decent Paulsons, hit up Lone Butte (Gila River).

As for taking them off the tables, just stuff the rack in a backpack as you walk out. Nobody cares. I had 9 racks of $1s and 2 racks of $5s at one point.

 

[bernielomax]

It would be interesting to know how many small denomination chips are actually taken by casino patrons each year. For a large Vegas casino is this number 50,000 chips? 100,000 chips? or way more?

 

[linux]

It would be interesting to know how many small denomination chips are actually taken by casino patrons each year. For a large Vegas casino is this number 50,000 chips? 100,000 chips? or way more?

I'm sure Paulson likes that.

 

[coolguy101]

For me, I think this post was the best part of the "ethics of chip harvesting" thread.

I am sure a conversation like this has come up before.

The true decision makers at casinos know what they are doing.

Great rationalization! I love the rationalizing, minimizing, and gaslighting that people sling on here to justify their actions. Keep them coming!

 

[Racer96]

No, sorry, wasnt clear. I was cashing out the scratch ticket at a mall kiosk.

I was saying it would be bizarre and unacceptable to have the same thing happen at a casino when cashing out chips. If the gaming laws didnt state they have the cash to cover chips I could see cases where a casino who didnt have good cash handling could fall short (also ala Full Tilt).

I know that’s happened. When rollover takes place and they transport cash to the safe/bank, they may not be holding enough cash on site to make a large payout. Usually if that happens, they will comp a shit ton of things to the guest and do everything in their power to get the cash on site quickly.

However, most times clients will just take cheques/transfers/drafts for the majority.