Situation at homegame (1 Viewer)

Eriks

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Long one, cliffs at the bottom.


Stupid situation in my latest home game that I’m trying to wrap my head around.

8-handed NLH cashgame 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5) with 500-1000 buy-ins. There is a mix of experienced players and amateurs. At least one that I know is a bit uncomfortable with the stakes. In order to manage the game size, buy-ins are 1000 max and rebuys upto half the big stack. Straddles are not allowed.

One of the players start doing dark raises to 25 whenever he’s UTG and another player follows suit and does the same some of the time. I’m not a fan as I feel it’s sort of a work around to the staddle ban but I also don’t see what I can do about it. After all, it’s just a raise whether or not one has seen his/her cards. No one is complaining about it or is visably upset so I figure it’s not a big deal and nobody else does it.

As it happens I’ve got position on both the dark raisers and I start 3-betting them a lot lighter than I normally would and quite large as the original dark bettor calls very light. Nothing crazy, but I definitely do it a few times making it 100-125. It makes the game play plenty bigger once or twice every other round but nothing super crazy happens as a result.

The player to my left (the most experienced player at the table) clearly is not having a good night. He has lost a few buy-ins worth and is visually and verbally upset and cranky. Not very pleasant. At about midnight after losing some more he grabs a barrel of chips from his stack and SLAMS them on the table. It’s clay chips, he knows they’re expensive and that they’re a big deal to me. I don’t say anything but feel the pain of the chips. 10 minutes later he does it again. This time I speak up and tell him to please mind the chips as they might not stand too much abuse. He mumbles something, gets up from the table and paces around for a while before asking me to cash him out. Then he gets in his car and effectively takes half the players with him as he is their ticket home.

The 4 of us that are left joke about his pissy mood all night and keep playing (one amateur player left). No one has yet mentioned anything about not liking the dark raises. The only issue is that players behavior.

Fast forward to yesterday: I invite to a new game and don’t really feel like including him since he wasn’t very fun to have around last time. I decide to send him an invite after all without mentioning last time. I get back a long answer about how it’s my responsibility as a host to make sure the game stays as announced. He feels I took advantage of the situation with the dark raises by making big raises on top of them and that that made the game uncomfortable for the rest. (This the first I hear of it from anyone). Now he doesn’t want to play in my game anymore and the same goes for one of the players he brought in.

I have checked with my players and no one thought the occational big raises were an issue.

Who’s the asshole here if anyone? How to deal with this in the future? I can’t ban dark raises, but I guess I can just ask players to refrain from it. Which I feel he should have done if he thought they were such a big issue.

Thoughts?

TL;DR

Op hosts 5/5 game with some restrictions.
Two players start raising in the dark.
Op as a result start 3-betting those light.
Another player gets upset and doesn’t wanna play in OP’s game anymore.
 
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What a weird situation....this guy is the best player, yet he doesn't know that you're 3b light and he needs to adjust his range? I could understand if he was just tilting that night and in a bad mood, but then he continues to bitch about it in the cold light of day. In my opinion, you can't enforce any rules around betting dark.

It's unfortunate that he brings players with him, but you can't let him control your game to suit his style. I'm not sure I know what a compromise looks like either. You'd only be entertaining it to stop this guy from sulking.

Your game seems entirely legit, mine is same stakes (0.25/0.50 because we have quarters, but still 50 min, 100 max and half biggest buy-in) and we have a similar mix of people. One or two feel uncomfrtable but they still play and they just adjust accordingly. We have a straddle too though, which I am guilty of, usually it results in me getting put in my place pretty quickly :ROFL: :ROFLMAO: we also rake 1BB per pot over 20BB, then when we have 10BB that goes into the middle as a bomb pot. Seems to help refrain the bigger degens from pushing the action too much (me)...

P.S. He should be getting a one game ban anyway for abusing the clay! Maybe tell him that and that you'll consider any suggestions he has once he learns to respect you and your property :cool
 
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If he slammed my clay chips on the table, his head would soon follow... Not a person worth having around IMO, by banning himself he probably just saved you the trouble. Absolutely nothing wrong with the game or how you started 3betting light.
 
He sounds like an immature asshole with no self awareness. He was rude to the host and treated property that wasn’t his with complete disrespect, all because he’s a petulant little piss baby who can’t handle losing like an adult. Good riddance. He will cost you more players than he brings in the long run.
 
My first thought is that i dont think he can afford the game. Mabey lower the buy-ins ?
I do alternate and host a 1/2 game as well. He definitely can afford it though. It’s not the first time I’ve seen him cranky when losing but this was on a new level.
 
He sounds like an immature asshole with no self awareness. He was rude to the host and treated property that wasn’t his with complete disrespect, all because he’s a petulant little piss baby who can’t handle losing like an adult. Good riddance. He will cost you more players than he brings in the long run.
Funny thing is, he’s actually close to 60 years old. And here I thought I was a grumpy old man
 
Just bc he can't think through a situation doesn't mean he can use violence against your chips. Maybe he was having a bad day outside the table. Is he normally like this? Change takes time (longer for some), but at his age I figured that's not happening. At his age he should know better. It could psych him out, but it's only helping him when someone raises out of turn. Give it I may moderately palm the table if a 1 or 2 outer came at certain stakes, but never the chips.

Genius, but kind of an angle on Garret Adelstein (last hand in the video).
 
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He is generally a very funny dude and a great addition to the game. Otherwise I wouldn’t bother worrying about this anymore
 
This is just one of the many player issues a host will encounter, it is also the player choice whether he want to join the game or not when he is invited

Nothing much needed to be done as a host, I will rather have a lesser player than a unhappy player in my game. Maybe he just need a cool down period and will join the next time you invite him

Also it really not cool for him to act violent on the chip :mad: but could it be because he is not aware of how expensive / valuable are those chips are?

I always made known to my game that I collect Poker chips as a hobby and do handle them with care and no harvesting of the chips is allow. I can understand the once or twice accident may happen and chips fall on the ground, but not purposely knocking the chips on the table to test how is their material are like (it happen once and I am like :eek: screaming in my head)
 
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Also it really not cool for him to act violent on the chip :mad: but could it be because he is not aware of how expensive / valuable are those chips are?
He knows. He probably thinks it’s stupid, but he sure knows that I don’t.

but not purposely knocking the chips on the table to test how is their material are like (it happen once and I am like :eek: screaming in my head)
Testing the material…:mad:

I can live with accidents or careless betting to some extent (don’t want to be a super nit) but not actual intentional abuse
 
I mean definitely don’t ban raising, or encourage less raising, that’s ridiculous. Each player gets to play their hand however they want. No encouragement or discouragement of strategy is ever the hosts responsibility

You said he’s uncomfortable with you taking advantage of other players, which is basically the entire point of poker, is the game supposed to be low stakes and friendly? One thing you can do is switch to a friendlier game, like limit hold ‘em, limit mixed, limit anything. No limit hold ‘em can be brutal
 
Honestly, I think it’s mostly hurt ego. He lost against worse players (hardly unheard of though) and was told off. A grown up man-baby
 
Long one, cliffs at the bottom.


Stupid situation in my latest home game that I’m trying to wrap my head around.

8-handed NLH cashgame 5/5 SEK ($0.5/0.5) with 500-1000 buy-ins. There is a mix of experienced players and amateurs. At least one that I know is a bit uncomfortable with the stakes. In order to manage the game size, buy-ins are 1000 max and rebuys upto half the big stack. Straddles are not allowed.

One of the players start doing dark raises to 25 whenever he’s UTG and another player follows suit and does the same some of the time. I’m not a fan as I feel it’s sort of a work around to the staddle ban but I also don’t see what I can do about it. After all, it’s just a raise whether or not one has seen his/her cards. No one is complaining about it or is visably upset so I figure it’s not a big deal and nobody else does it.

As it happens I’ve got position on both the dark raisers and I start 3-betting them a lot lighter than I normally would and quite large as the original dark bettor calls very light. Nothing crazy, but I definitely do it a few times making it 100-125. It makes the game play plenty bigger once or twice every other round but nothing super crazy happens as a result.

The player to my left (the most experienced player at the table) clearly is not having a good night. He has lost a few buy-ins worth and is visually and verbally upset and cranky. Not very pleasant. At about midnight after losing some more he grabs a barrel of chips from his stack and SLAMS them on the table. It’s clay chips, he knows they’re expensive and that they’re a big deal to me. I don’t say anything but feel the pain of the chips. 10 minutes later he does it again. This time I speak up and tell him to please mind the chips as they might not stand too much abuse. He mumbles something, gets up from the table and paces around for a while before asking me to cash him out. Then he gets in his car and effectively takes half the players with him as he is their ticket home.

The 4 of us that are left joke about his pissy mood all night and keep playing (one amateur player left). No one has yet mentioned anything about not liking the dark raises. The only issue is that players behavior.

Fast forward to yesterday: I invite to a new game and don’t really feel like including him since he wasn’t very fun to have around last time. I decide to send him an invite after all without mentioning last time. I get back a long answer about how it’s my responsibility as a host to make sure the game stays as announced. He feels I took advantage of the situation with the dark raises by making big raises on top of them and that that made the game uncomfortable for the rest. (This the first I hear of it from anyone). Now he doesn’t want to play in my game anymore and the same goes for one of the players he brought in.

I have checked with my players and no one thought the occational big raises were an issue.

Who’s the asshole here if anyone? How to deal with this in the future? I can’t ban dark raises, but I guess I can just ask players to refrain from it. Which I feel he should have done if he thought they were such a big issue.

Thoughts?

TL;DR

Op hosts 5/5 game with some restrictions.
Two players start raising in the dark.
Op as a result start 3-betting those light.
Another player gets upset and doesn’t wanna play in OP’s game anymore.
This is an easy one.....It's a no limit game. If he doesnt like people playing bad, that's on him. Also, it's on him as a GUEST in your house to be respectful, whether or not he is having a bad night. To put it on you as the host is absurd He is an asshat.

TLDR: He is an asshat.
 
Agree with the consensus here.

OP is NTA. If one doesn't like how others are playing, adjust, play better, or cash out. Just don't bring the rest of the table down that's having a good time.

I have a player that on occasion gets bored and starts shoving all in blind whenever his stack starts to get low. It's easy money/chips when you get a hand to play, but even if you do, there's that 5 to 10% of the time that he sucks out and doubles up. If I wake up with a hand when this happens, I have to weigh the circumstances of whether going in or not is really worth it. You adjust and live with your choices.

If the guy us still being rough with the equipment after being warned, I wouldn't have invited him back to begin with. It sucks that OP's game is tenuous now, but they're better off in the long run.
 
There might be two problems here. One is obviously the chip slamming man baby.
But maybe the blind betting is also a problem. Normally I’d say “tough crap, it’s NLHE, adjust your play.” Except, you mentioned that you already have a no straddle rule. That’s not normal, and the fact that you have that rule in place suggests that people want to keep this game small.
I don’t have an answer for you. I guess you just have to see how it goes in the future, with or without this baby man. But like I said, if you’re making efforts to keep the game small and you have a player or two who are making efforts to make it play bigger, that might be a problem.
 
It sucks that OP's game is tenuous now, but they're better off in the long run.
People with that kind of temperament are bad for the game in the short term, like night of the game, but they are absolutely devastating to a game long term. Their attitude and disposition will infect and sour your game if allowed to go unchecked. Especially if your other players feel that you will cater to an asshole just to get another seat at your table.
Eventually someone will say something “if that guy is coming I’m not” and then who are you going to choose?

Make the choice upfront - playing in anyone’s home game is a privilege and the group should be aware of what happens if you violate that privilege.
 
Don't adjust the game to please one player. It's a slippery slope to mayhem and it will upset more players than the one you're trying to "save".
Yes. But that’s my question - was this no straddle rule in place for just that one player (the crybaby chip slammer) or was it there for other players too?
 
People with that kind of temperament are bad for the game in the short term, like night of the game, but they are absolutely devastating to a game long term. Their attitude and disposition will infect and sour your game if allowed to go unchecked. Especially if your other players feel that you will cater to an asshole just to get another seat at your table.
Eventually someone will say something “if that guy is coming I’m not” and then who are you going to choose?

Make the choice upfront - playing in anyone’s home game is a privilege and the group should be aware of what happens if you violate that privilege.
I understand I’m not invited any more to your game, but I thought we weren’t going to discuss this in public.:mad:
 
I understand I’m not invited any more to your game, but I thought we weren’t going to discuss this in public.:mad:
Dammit I already told three other people I chose you over them.
They formed a game and are having a good time!
 
There might be two problems here. One is obviously the chip slamming man baby.
But maybe the blind betting is also a problem. Normally I’d say “tough crap, it’s NLHE, adjust your play.” Except, you mentioned that you already have a no straddle rule. That’s not normal, and the fact that you have that rule in place suggests that people want to keep this game small.
I don’t have an answer for you. I guess you just have to see how it goes in the future, with or without this baby man. But like I said, if you’re making efforts to keep the game small and you have a player or two who are making efforts to make it play bigger, that might be a problem.
It is true that the blind betting could be a problem. If I had 7 other clones of myself at the table, I would allow uncapped buy-ins and straddles all the way around the table. But I don’t have that many willing to play the 5/5 game so I need to put same restrictions on it. It won’t be a problem anymore though since one of the dark bettors is a friend of the manbaby and it appears he’s taking his side, since he won’t answer my new invitation. The other dark bettor is a member here and most definitely not a manbaby. I’m sure he would simply refrain from dark raising if I asked him :).

Ideally one wants a table where the stakes mean just as much to everyone, but that is difficult in practise. The solution to this particular problem will be to not have him back. Since he announced he doesn’t want to, it has resolved itself. I also won’t accept him if he changes his mind later.
 
It is true that the blind betting could be a problem. If I had 7 other clones of myself at the table, I would allow uncapped buy-ins and straddles all the way around the table. But I don’t have that many willing to play the 5/5 game so I need to put same restrictions on it. It won’t be a problem anymore though since one of the dark bettors is a friend of the manbaby and it appears he’s taking his side, since he won’t answer my new invitation. The other dark bettor is a member here and most definitely not a manbaby. I’m sure he would simply refrain from dark raising if I asked him :).

Ideally one wants a table where the stakes mean just as much to everyone, but that is difficult in practise. The solution to this particular problem will be to not have him back. Since he announced he doesn’t want to, it has resolved itself. I also won’t accept him if he changes his mind later.
Lol one of the guys who caused the problem is boycotting you because of the problem? I say they deserve themselves.

I’d let them back in but I’d kick them out again after the first hand. Nobody has a monopoly on being an asshole.
 
I'm sure he would have been perfectly fine if he was on your right. I suspect he was just upset that you could always bet before him.
 
Lol one of the guys who caused the problem is boycotting you because of the problem? I say they deserve themselves.
I don’t know for sure. All I know is he hasn’t answered my invitation. If he is ghosting I’m thinking it’s probably a loyalty thing since he is friends with the manbaby
 
I’d love to have the dark bettor back. He was a super nice guy and obviously good for the game
 

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