Shuffle Ahead/Behind Poll (1 Viewer)

Do you prefer to shuffle Ahead or Behind?

  • Ahead

  • Behind

  • Who Cares

  • Get a dealer already!


Results are only viewable after voting.
About three months ago, my Tuesday night group switched from shuffling ahead to shuffling behind (i.e. "clean up your own mess"). There were a few complaints at first, and a couple people had a hard time getting used to it, but overall the change was welcome. It keeps the decks from crossing and speeds up the game a little bit.

I believe any home game that uses two decks will get more hands per hour than a single deck game. In my games, a new hand is often being dealt even before the deck is gathered from the previous hand - so it is unquestionably faster. Plus, my casual players are not always quick and efficient shufflers (and they don't care to spend a few hours of offline practice to become quick and efficient), so the extra deck speeds things up dramatically when these players deal.

And on cheating: I don't believe anyone in my group would ever cheat, period. Many of us are friends outside of poker, some of us work together, and the ostracization would not be worth the couple hundred bucks that a cheater might win in a .25/.50 cash game. But we are still fairly strict about shuffling and cutting procedure. Consistency is important, reasonable randomization of the deck is important, and avoiding the appearance of impropriety is important, especially when new players attend.

I know that nobody's cheating, but the new guy doesn't - so it's important that he sees consistency and fairness in every aspect of the game, or he's not coming back.
 
I noticed that shuffling behind works extremely very well if the dealer keep the table clean while the hand it's on . (As long as the dealer have folded and had proper time to do proper dealer job) I.E. resemble the pot and the folded hands as it goes and not leave bets and folded hands all round the table.
 
We shuffle behind, but if the dealer wins the hand usually someone else will jump in to collect the cards and prep the deck.
 
I played in the past few days in two games with some overlapping players, one game which shuffled behind, and the other ahead.

The shuffle ahead seemed to go smoother overall, but it wasn't a big difference either way.

Shuffle behind works well, I think, if and only if you have players who are really paying attention. If the shuffler gets the deck ready before the previous hand is over, and has it in place to be cut immediately by the guy who just dealt, it can be seamless. I think shuffling ahead is a little more forgiving.

Also with shuffle ahead, if the dealer of the hand in progress has some down time (someone making a decision) and the shuffler has the deck ready, the existing dealer can cut it right away and it is ready to go as soon as the previous hand ends. This is a bit more difficult to accomplish with shuffle behind, just because the deck has to move farther along, and all three need to be paying attention to the shuffle/cut.

Either way, people who are used to shuffling behind complain about shuffling ahead, and vice versa. I suspect 95% of the debate boils down to what you are used to, and finding arguments that justify that preference, with little actual advantage either way.
 
This is a bit more difficult to accomplish with shuffle behind, just because the deck has to move farther along, and all three need to be paying attention to the shuffle/cut.
What? Only one person is involved with the shuffle. And only one person is involved with the cut (which happens later) -- the dealer of the previous hand.

He cuts the new deck by placing the cut card between him and the player to his left (the new dealer), and cuts the shuffled deck (sitting to his right) onto it. One person, nobody else involved.

The deck was already shuffled and placed in position long ago. And the newly-cut deck is picked up by the new dealer, who immediately starts dealing.

The dealer's duties include, in order:
  • dealing the hand,
  • collecting bets and making change,
  • controlling the deck stub and mucked cards,
  • awarding the pot, and
  • moving the dealer button, ending the hand.
He then :
  • cuts the new deck (sitting to his right) for the new dealer,
  • collects the cards from the hand he just dealt, and
  • shuffles those cards, sitting them to his left.
No-brainer. And extremely efficient.
 
Another difference is that when shuffling ahead, the shuffler has to reach to the right, across the next dealer to gather the cards. If you're cleaning up your own mess (shuffle behind) and you've kept a reasonable muck, you can cut the new deck then pull in the old one without blocking the new dealer, who likely has already tossed a few cards by the time you've got the old deck fully out of the way.

(I know, I'm getting into nitpicking mode... :bag:)
 
What? Only one person is involved with the shuffle. And only one person is involved with the cut (which happens later) -- the dealer of the previous hand.


<Sigh> I’m well aware of how it works. No matter how one tries to make it sound simpler, the process requires that three people pay attention, rather than two... and the process is only fast as the slowest person.

At a table with some players who are totally on top of it, and others who are distractable, chatty, slow or sloppy, I prefer to have the weaker links involved fewer times rather than more. With ahead, each has to be involved twice per orbit, not three times.

I can break down where in the behind method the delays and errors often happen... But as I already implied, in a situation where the players are all experienced and attentive, I don’t think it makes that much difference, and these endless debates are more about familiarity than big discrepancies between the methods. Unfortunately it is hard to find self-dealt games where everyone’s mechanics are great.
 
We have always shuffled ahead - I had never heard of shuffle behind. But now that I see how the shuffle behind words, I'm going to try it out at my next home game.
 
He then :
  • cuts the new deck (sitting to his right) for the new dealer,

In the game I play that is shuffle behind, this is the one step we aren't taking. We just have dealer cut his own. (As if pulling it from a shuffling machine.) Previous dealer cuts next deck way makes more sense.

My only criticism of shuffle behind is the awkward pass of the deck past the current dealer. I am going to suggest this change next time.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Back
Top Bottom