Show'em chips. Use in a "real" game. (2 Viewers)

[Leonard]

I have a monthly 1-2 NLHE home game. At the last game some interest was expressed for using show'em chips on at least a trial basis. This game runs big for 1-2 with the big winner usually winning at least 2k and sometimes quite a bit more, so one of the points is to make the chips fun and useful but not to unbalance the game.

Thoughts on rules so far:
- Show'em chips can only be purchased with your initial buy-in. One to a player, for a modest sum of money - likely $25 at our game.
- Once purchased, they can be used at any hand to make a player expose his hand after the hand has ended. At this time, the player forced to show his hand will receive the value of the show'em chip ($25 above) in cash chips and the show'em chip will be out of play for the rest of the night.
- If you have used your chip, you can induce another player to use theirs through verbal encouragement, or bribery/purchase with chips from your stack.
- If unused at the end of the night, you can return your chip for the purchase price when you cash out.
- Show'em chips are not part of an all-in bet.

Thoughts? Do you think the chips as described are too powerful and would disrupt a friendly but pretty serious game?

L

 

[Beakertwang]

I like the idea of a show-em fee going to the shower, but I would say $25 is far too pricey. In a 1/2 game, I'd do it for $10, but your group may value the info more. And instead of purchasing the chip, why not just have the player using his show'em chip send the money to the other player directly. If he happens to be short stacked, they might not be able to use it.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I've always liked the idea of Show'em chips and think they could add an interesting though very limited twist to a game. The way you are planning to implement them is cool too, since the affected player gets a modest bonus out of the deal. Some players may even enjoy trying to goad others into using it on them for the bonus.

 

[JustinInMN]

Just a thought, after a player uses the show 'em chip, let the redemption for cash be optional, the affected player can then have the option to use an extra or cash at the end of the night. Also I think I agree 10 sounds about right for 1-2. That's 3 rounds of blinds. If you find it's being used too often, you can adjust upward. But for an experiment, probably better to error on the side of being too low.

Edit to add a wicked idea. Only put one on the table to the highest bidder to start. Then only one player can use the show 'em chip at a time.

 

[Nex]

I like that idea! I like it a lot.

Previously I have been skeptical regarding show'em chips, as there is the common sentiment that in regular poker you have to pay off the bettor if you want to see their hand, and using such chips without any strings attached would essentially give players this information for free.

The chip value should probably be around half or a third of the average size of a pot at the river (before river bets) in your game, rounded to the next "nice" value. Estimation: With a preflop 3 BB raise, one caller and dead money blinds, then a 2/3rd flop bet and a 1/2 turn bet, we're at about 35 BB, so a value of about $20-35 for your $1/$2 game sounds good. But that depends on your individual game. Value probably needs to be higher if you routinely have family pots. You can probably also make them cheaper than that, provided you don't drop the limit 1 per player and per night rule. The cheaper the chips are, the fewer there must be.

Since you set a limit of just one chip per player, and the chips are immediately exchanged for cash upon usage (so no re-use of chips possible by the new possessor), this probably does not change the fundamentals of the game too much that good players could really complain about it when show'em is used against them. It can't be used more than sparingly, so they shouldn't have the fear that their play style really gets exposed with it. Actually, they might even welcome it - after all, it might entice a sucker to pay them at least some money rather than none at all, if they feel like calling the full bet wouldn't be worth it to see.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I use show'em chips in my .25/.50 $100 max cash games, but at no charge - I simply give one to each player with his first buy in.

It's definitely fun - seeing a big bluff or a hidden monster often sparks laughter, needling, or a round of drinks.

It also sometimes starts a conversation about the hand. My players tend to talk a bit of strat at the table since many of us are casino stakes players. This isn't a bad thing in my game, but you may or may not want it in yours.

And though it's not always true, I've found that the weaker players use them a lot more often than the stronger players. Sometimes they just need to know what you had, and this is a way to scratch that itch without too much effect on game balance.

 

[CraigT78]

I tried to introduce them into my game, but there wasn't much interest. I laid out pretty much what you described. Good luck!

 

[DoubleEagle]

I don’t think these would work in my game unless they were free.

 

[gopherblue]

I don’t think most folks would “buy” a Show‘em chip at the beginning of a game. And I don’t think most folks would use them if the cost was too high. In a .25/.50 game, how about give everyone a Show’em chip with their buy-in for free. If they use it, they have to give the player that shows the hand $10-20 (it needs to be a price that makes sense based on how your game plays, this I didn’t specify a price), and surrenders the chip to the bank. That way, everyone can only use the chip once, and the person using it has to pay for the privilege. And the price is not so high to keep someone from using it, but not so cheap that they get used for ordinary hands.


...and nice to see you again, @Leonard. (y) :thumbsup:

 

[Wils]

Don't like 'em. It's an information game and people are getting information for free (or at least they're not getting it 'properly').

 

[Beakertwang]

Make it 1/4 or 1/2 the amount to call paid to the bettor?

 

[Rhodeman77]

Another way to use them could be as an On Time bonus. I have found that with cash games, unless there is a high demand for seats that players show up when they feel like it and the game will often be short handed for a while.

One raked game I played in would allow the first 5 players to show up a throw at the dart board with their score (up to $20) paid in cash. A form of rake back that also made sure the game was running on time.

If the game is take free a Show ‘Em chip is a free way to help encourage the players to be on time.

 

[slurpeee]

We use them as one free show-em chip per player per night and they're a big hit.

We have a regular game with the same players and I think those circumstances are when they are the most fun. We already know one another pretty well, so when they're played, its almost always in a situation where most everyone has a strong hypothesis of what's going on and its to confirm. They generate a great deal of banter and definitely up the entertainment factor. I don't think you'd get that same impact though if there wasn't so much familiarity between players.

But in a game where they players know each other well, they're pretty fun IMHO.

 

[bivey]

I use a show-em chip for our team tournament annually and for that’s it. It’s a huge social draw and people really like it. After that, no way. No “free” lessons. I’m against it.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Used them last night in the post-tourney cash game. Eight players, eight show-em chips, and only two were used (one on me ).

 

[waddadonk]

Some questions about these accessories - is it restricted to HU pots? Has anyone used these where it's a purchase of the chip as an option, with no value attached? Say a player is given the option to buy one at initial buy-in, or is that considered a rake?

 

[TheBigTater]

Why not just make every winning hand show their cards no matter what.

Show-em chips are (barely) ok in a tournament but in a cash game Show-em chips are terrible and I will generally avoid games that use them. Giving away information for free is counter to the rules of the game. Information should be obtained only by paying for it.

If you're going to use them at least make it a large enough monetary ($25 for the OP' game is too low) amount that it will be a strong setback to the player of the chip and a good benefit to the victim, players will then think twice (really three or four times) before using one.

 

[Gobbs]

Waste of time and money, IMHO.

 

[Vice]

I don't like them.

 

[detroitdad]

I have a monthly 1-2 NLHE home game. At the last game some interest was expressed for using show'em chips on at least a trial basis. This game runs big for 1-2 with the big winner usually winning at least 2k and sometimes quite a bit more, so one of the points is to make the chips fun and useful but not to unbalance the game.

Thoughts on rules so far:
- Show'em chips can only be purchased with your initial buy-in. One to a player, for a modest sum of money - likely $25 at our game.
- Once purchased, they can be used at any hand to make a player expose his hand after the hand has ended. At this time, the player forced to show his hand will receive the value of the show'em chip ($25 above) in cash chips and the show'em chip will be out of play for the rest of the night.
- If you have used your chip, you can induce another player to use theirs through verbal encouragement, or bribery/purchase with chips from your stack.
- If unused at the end of the night, you can return your chip for the purchase price when you cash out.
- Show'em chips are not part of an all-in bet.

Thoughts? Do you think the chips as described are too powerful and would disrupt a friendly but pretty serious game?

L

I'm all for gimmicks. Hell, I created make it a double chip for double board plo.

Saying that, I hate this gimmick unless it's being done how you described it in the op.

 

[Leonard]

We played last night with the show'em chips. The current rule is that everybody gets one chip and that's it. After playing with them for 5-6 sessions, I would say that they add a little bit of drama. When someone plays one on you, you make a big deal of showing your cards, then the game goes on. Often, you show a big hand - once in a while a bluff. They are fun, but don't change the game much. Additional added information seems minimal. Often, one or two chips goes unused at the end of the day. As far as I can tell, everybody likes them. They certainly don't seem to overpower the game, which is what I was worried about. Overall, I'm glad that I picked them up.

Your mileage may vary.

L

 

[timinater]

I have considered having one, maybe two show'em chips in circulation. The show'em chip will get tossed into the first pot (maybe first flop seen) of the night. Winner of that pot claims the Show'em and can use it whenever they want. When they use it, the "victim" then takes ownership of the show'em chip and can use it when they want to, with their victim receiving the chip and so on.

Has anyone done something like that before? How did it go?

 

[Gobbs]

I have considered having one, maybe two show'em chips in circulation. The show'em chip will get tossed into the first pot (maybe first flop seen) of the night. Winner of that pot claims the Show'em and can use it whenever they want. When they use it, the "victim" then takes ownership of the show'em chip and can use it when they want to, with their victim receiving the chip and so on.

Has anyone done something like that before? How did it go?

What will you do when somebody like me wins the first hand and sits on the chip all night? Are you going to force me to use it?

There are some rare exceptions, but in a home game, I do not need to see what my opponent has. Overall, I believe my opponents are going to gain more knowledge by using it against me than I’m going to get by using it. So, keeping it right in front of me would be my optimal strategy.

 

[timinater]

What will you do when somebody like me wins the first hand and sits on the chip all night? Are you going to force me to use it?

There are some rare exceptions, but in a home game, I do not need to see what my opponent has. Overall, I believe my opponents are going to gain more knowledge by using it against me than I’m going to get by using it. So, keeping it right in front of me would be my optimal strategy.

Fill your boots.