Should it be legal for women to be topless in public? (4 Viewers)

[jbutler]

What a relief. For a minute there I thought this was a poker chip forum.

sorry no, this is a boobs and politics forum. that's why this thread is in the "on-topic" section.

 

[Leonard]

What harm could there be? (well, other than causing men to walk/drive into things) Put me in the Libertarian camp. Also, I'm rather fond of boobs.

With regard to public nudity in general, I have hygiene concerns but otherwise don't particularly care.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

I'm for it on moral ground. If guys can why not woman should they so desire. But it is a slippery slope. A double edged sword ect... its all good when you live or work near a couple of universities or gyms. But remember the plight of the gynecologist. They see a lot but most of which can't be unseen. And some ta-tas can look more like elephant testicles rather than those perky, hang your hat on the nipple types we crave.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

For the most part I would have to agree the "constitutionality" of regulating morality is wrong and one could argue has been a failure for the most part. And as the father of a son and daughter, I am torn as far as which side to really be on. The Louis CK quote is fairly short sided and narrow minded. I would have to agree that there are a helluva lot of people ......men and women I don't want to see in anything other than a winter parka and ski pants....let alone topless.

The part I find the most ironic is from a progressive standpoint in NYC is "go ahead and flop them titties on the table but don't you dare get a Big gulp of Dr Pepper!"

Flame away

 

[jbutler]

For the most part I would have to agree the "constitutionality" of regulating morality is wrong and one could argue has been a failure for the most part. And as the father of a son and daughter, I am torn as far as which side to really be on. The Louis CK quote is fairly short sided and narrow minded. I would have to agree that there are a helluva lot of people ......men and women I don't want to see in anything other than a winter parka and ski pants....let alone topless.

so what are the arguments in favor of prohibition that keep you torn rather than opposing a policy agenda that you deem a failure?

 

[spikeithard]

I think its something that is ingrained within our culture that breasts are sexual. So having them free swingin' around is going to come off sexual to most men and teens etc . this could pose issue with cell phone pics etc. I voted no even though my heart votes yes legal lol

 

[RowdyRawhide]

so what are the arguments in favor of prohibition that keep you torn rather than opposing a policy agenda that you deem a failure?

My only argument against would be morality and the fact I would prefer not to see my daughter topless in fifteen years...in my mind and I would assume most peoples here women's breasts = sexuality...whether you want it to or not. If I had all boys then I am sure I would be less torn....

I think this is what you are asking

 

[jbutler]

I think its something that is ingrained within our culture that breasts are sexual. So having them free swingin' around is going to come off sexual to most men and teens etc . this could pose issue with cell phone pics etc.

what sort of "issue"? there's no issue with photographing people in public.

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My only argument against would be morality and the fact I would prefer not to see my daughter topless in fifteen years...in my mind and I would assume most peoples here women's breasts = sexuality...whether you want it to or not. If I had all boys then I am sure I would be less torn....

I think this is what you are asking

so our attempts to legislate morality have failed, but we should legislate this because of...morality?

and i don't really see how the law would compel you to look at your daughter topless. if she were so compelled to be free of clothing in fifteen years, presumably you'll often be together in the privacy of your home in which case she could go topless regardless of the law. if she weren't so compelled, then i don't think the fact that law permits it would encourage her to go topless in front of her father.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

so our attempts to legislate morality have failed, but we should legislate this because of...morality?

I would say yes, for the most they have part failed, we have tried to legislate morality in a "public" person to person environment and it has worked I guess, but if you include media esp prime time TV (a much more controllable environment IMO) then I think the "standards" have become much more lax. Yes I have more control over that, and do control that. Hell when....and where... I was growing up Miami Vice was considered pretty wild...now it would be damn near "G" My daughter is six for the record and until she were 18 she would not go topless in my house (unless in her own room behind closed doors) if it were to come to that. From your "pure" argument standpoint, a person would have to let go of all socially acceptable and unacceptable standards to this point, and that is very hard to do. and just because a law is passed wont change that over night if ever. If we were in indigenous parts of the the world then this is a non issue......But there are also indigenous cultures that require boys to perform fellatio on other grown men as a "right of passage" as well......and I sure as hell ain't starting that thread

And before the follow up question you could probably say morality=normal and your moralty/normal is different than mine and this is one of those gray areas for a persons normal. Pretty sure we would agree with most of the black and white areas....

 

[jbutler]

so our attempts to legislate morality have failed, but we should legislate this because of...morality?

I would say yes, for the most they have part failed, we have tried to legislate morality in a "public" person to person environment and it has worked I guess, but if you include media esp prime time TV (a much more controllable environment IMO) then I think the "standards" have become much more lax. Yes I have more control over that, and do control that. Hell when....and where... I was growing up Miami Vice was considered pretty wild...now it would be damn near "G" My daughter is six for the record and until she were 18 she would not go topless in my house (unless in her own room behind closed doors) if it were to come to that.

i'm still not sure i follow. you say your daughter would not go topless in the house, but above you feared the law permitting her to go topless because you don't want to see her go topless. this doesn't make a lot of sense.

From your "pure" argument standpoint, a person would have to let go of all socially acceptable and unacceptable standards to this point, and that is very hard to do. and just because a law is passed wont change that over night if ever. If we were in indigenous parts of the the world then this is a non issue......But there are also indigenous cultures that require boys to perform fellatio on other grown men as a "right of passage" as well......and I sure as hell ain't starting that thread

i'm not advocating "letting go of all socially acceptable and unacceptable standards." i'm advocating the government getting out of the business of prohibiting by law actions which hard no one. neither you nor anyone else in this thread has proposed any demonstrable harm that might come from women being permitted to be topless in public.

you cite "morality" generally and without description (which sort of makes my point), but laws should not be enacted in reliance on amorphous and fleeting concepts. the government should look at the effects of the action they intend to prohibit and determine whether those effects justify the exertion of force and control by the state over the individual. here, there being no damage which could follow from exposed breasts, i see no justification whatsoever for society permitting the government to arrest and prosecute women for taking their shirts off.

you see overall concerned that if the law doesn't prohibit something that there will be no controls over individuals in society. you might have overlooked that it is entirely permissible under the law for someone to approach you or your family on the street and tell them that you are worthless and ugly and will likely die miserable and alone. people generally refrain from this sort of thing by their own free will without the fear that they will be arrested if they express such thoughts. i don't see why it is so difficult to imagine that they will use this same free will to refrain from going topless if they so choose no matter what the law permits or prohibits.

 

[Puggy]

It should be compulsory

 

[spikeithard]

what sort of "issue"? there's no issue with photographing people in public.

very true. I just dont think we are ready for it and like alcohol becoming legal after a long prohibition, it may stir up a lot of 'problems'.. or it may not? im just sparking debate here.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

i'm still not sure i follow. you say your daughter would not go topless in the house, but above you feared the law permitting her to go topless because you don't want to see her go topless. this doesn't make a lot of sense.



i'm not advocating "letting go of all socially acceptable and unacceptable standards." i'm advocating the government getting out of the business of prohibiting by law actions which hard no one. neither you nor anyone else in this thread has proposed any demonstrable harm that might come from women being permitted to be topless in public.

you cite "morality" generally and without description (which sort of makes my point), but laws should not be enacted in reliance on amorphous and fleeting concepts. the government should look at the effects of the action they intend to prohibit and determine whether those effects justify the exertion of force and control by the state over the individual. here, there being no damage which could follow from exposed breasts, i see no justification whatsoever for society permitting the government to arrest and prosecute women for taking their shirts off.

you see overall concerned that if the law doesn't prohibit something that there will be no controls over individuals in society. you might have overlooked that it is entirely permissible under the law for someone to approach you or your family on the street and tell them that you are worthless and ugly and will likely die miserable and alone. people generally refrain from this sort of thing by their own free will without the fear that they will be arrested if they express such thoughts. i don't see why it is so difficult to imagine that they will use this same free will to refrain from going topless if they so choose no matter what the law permits or prohibits.

I think you ready my first post as disagreeing with you, when I was actually agreeing. The comment about my daughter was just being honest about an inner conflict I would have with myself given new "societal norms". I'm just addressing the "perverseness" that I would have to get over if it was deemed acceptable and lawful.....that said maybe I would be fine with it but I can't tell you that until I am in that position. off the top of my head the only thing I can relate it to is riding a roller coaster....hell yeah let's do it and then you get the top and you all of a sudden think you're thinking what the hell did I get myself into. Hopefully that clarifies my train of thought.

Trust me I love boobs as much as the next person probably more.


ETA: For the record I voted yes in my original post

 

[grandgnu]

this thread is worthless without pics

 

[Poker Zombie]

I think its something that is ingrained within our culture that breasts are sexual. So having them free swingin' around is going to come off sexual to most men and teens etc . this could pose issue with cell phone pics etc. I voted no even though my heart votes yes legal lol

I am going to assume you are married. I will also assume you find your wife attractive.
When your wife is getting ready for bed and is switching into her PJ's or whatever, when she gets undressed, is that sexual? Sexual is more than skin. Yes, there are deviants out there that might make going topless less than perfectly safe, which may be one of the reasons you just don't see many women strolling about topless in the biggest city in America - where it is legal!

Quite frankly, supporting the "cover them up" law is simply a form of oppression. I can relax at a beach and even out my farmer's tan. You however cannot, because that is MY wife, or MY daughter. Slaves have been free in America for 150 years. You don't own your wife. You can own chips, however. So they shouldn't go topless.

 

[detroitdad]

A thread about "topless" women should be more fun.............just sayin

 

[jbutler]

very true. I just dont think we are ready for it and like alcohol becoming legal after a long prohibition, it may stir up a lot of 'problems'.. or it may not? im just sparking debate here.

like the "problems" with alcohol, the "problems" that might follow from a woman being topless are not the fault of her being topless, but with those people who reveal themselves to have no decency or respect for others. if you want to limit the kind of disrespectful treatment you apparently expect to occur, advocate for enforcement of harassment laws, not the limitation of individual rights.

this thread is worthless without pics

A thread about "topless" women should be more fun.............just sayin

i know this is a subject you can't throw onto any discussion board without the teenagers getting all flustered because i mentioned tits, but it's actually a legitimate question.

 

[spikeithard]

Very true Jb

 

[grandgnu]

i know this is a subject you can't throw onto any discussion board without the teenagers getting all flustered because i mentioned tits, but it's actually a legitimate question.

I was surprised this thread went on as long as it did before that was posted

 

[detroitdad]

like the "problems" with alcohol, the "problems" that might follow from a woman being topless are not the fault of her being topless, but with those people who reveal themselves to have no decency or respect for others. if you want to limit the kind of disrespectful treatment you apparently expect to occur, advocate for enforcement of harassment laws, not the limitation of individual rights.




i know this is a subject you can't throw onto any discussion board without the teenagers getting all flustered because i mentioned tits, but it's actually a legitimate question.

I know Sir. It was a joke. Just trying to keep things light.............

 

[Quicksilver-75]

It is inevitable that the thread to turn to jokes and sexual innuendo. But that is half of the "problem" for lack of a better word. It isn't just men either. In fairness to all the question is ridiculous not because of the implications or results of allowing such behaviour but because of the context. In reality the question should be interpreted: Should women be allowed to bear their breasts in public when its practical to do so?

In phrasing the question like this its true meaning can be taken to the public to resolve the REAL underlying questions.

1) Tanning and sunbathing on PUBLIC beaches and in the privacy of clubs, gyms, tanning salons and the like. Is it fair for women to bear their breasts in this situation - YES! Absolutely.
2) Breast feeding in PUBLIC. Surprisingly this is probably the single most debated facet of a bear breast in public. My family all live in England and sadly the vast majority of the people in the UK are opposed and repulsed to what many in the undeveloped and western world feel is the single most significant act of nurturing a young child. I was told that using "formula" is the European standard. CRAZY!

I'm sure there are other situations where a woman would want to be able to let em hang but therein lies the main reason most women wouldn't choose to. It simply isn't comfortable and becomes quite painful. More so for the larger breasted women. On the whole I believe it would be a good thing. but in my own personal opinion the biggest problem wouldn't be with the men that ogle the bear tatas but the groups of people that would be resistant to the idea. Let's face it. A woman is just as likely to ogle and whistle at a guy bear chested in public. It happens to me all the time. (not really...*sigh*)

 

[jbutler]

It is inevitable that the thread to turn to jokes and sexual innuendo. But that is half of the "problem" for lack of a better word. It isn't just men either. In fairness to all the question is ridiculous not because of the implications or results of allowing such behaviour but because of the context. In reality the question should be interpreted: Should women be allowed to bear their breasts in public when its practical to do so?

In phrasing the question like this its true meaning can be taken to the public to resolve the REAL underlying questions.

1) Tanning and sunbathing on PUBLIC beaches and in the privacy of clubs, gyms, tanning salons and the like. Is it fair for women to bear their breasts in this situation - YES! Absolutely.
2) Breast feeding in PUBLIC. Surprisingly this is probably the single most debated facet of a bear breast in public. My family all live in England and sadly the vast majority of the people in the UK are opposed and repulsed to what many in the undeveloped and western world feel is the single most significant act of nurturing a young child. I was told that using "formula" is the European standard. CRAZY!

I'm sure there are other situations where a woman would want to be able to let em hang but therein lies the main reason most women wouldn't choose to. It simply isn't comfortable and becomes quite painful. More so for the larger breasted women. On the whole I believe it would be a good thing. but in my own personal opinion the biggest problem wouldn't be with the men that ogle the bear tatas but the groups of people that would be resistant to the idea. Let's face it. A woman is just as likely to ogle and whistle at a guy bear chested in public. It happens to me all the time. (not really...*sigh*)

i'm by no means a libertarian, but i find it troubling when law attempts to qualify freedom such as in your statement above: "Should women be allowed to bear their breasts in public when its practical to do so?"

if the law is worded in such a way, we will have courts reviewing the individual's decision as to whether it was "practical". why should the government have any reason to determine practicality here given there is no harm regardless of the context of the exposure?

i agree entirely that there is almost zero chance that a law permitting toplessness would result in significant numbers of women taking the opportunity to walk around exposed. as you point out, there is the simple matter of discomfort. but again, as with practicality, discomfort should play no part in determining the law.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Yeah. That wasn't my intention. perhaps I could have phrased it better. What I meant is that people should keep that in mind when being asked or attempting to answer that very question. I would wholeheartedly agree that a government should never attempt to dictate or place caveats on such a particular question. Otherwise the answer will undoubtedly be skewed.

I think that too many when asked that question immediately envision a world where hordes of women are strutting around in groups with their breasts bouncing around something similar to a Monte Python skit about a guy in a dream and a cliff..

 

[AlPresidente]

2) ... the vast majority of the people in the UK are opposed and repulsed to what many in the undeveloped and western world feel is the single most significant act of nurturing a young child. I was told that using "formula" is the European standard. CRAZY!

I'm English and my wife's a midwife & I don't think this is at all true. All new mums are encouraged to breastfeed, ad's for formula need to say breast is best & there's very little stigma attached to lobbing one out in public to feed the bairn nowadays.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-acceptable-places-like-bars-restaurants.html

 

[Quicksilver-75]

I'm English and my wife's a midwife & I don't think this is at all true. All new mums are encouraged to breastfeed, ad's for formula need to say breast is best & there's very little stigma attached to lobbing one out in public to feed the bairn nowadays.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-acceptable-places-like-bars-restaurants.html

That was indeed a refreshing read. Sadly It wasn't my experience while visiting with my niece. We were subject to all kinds of comments and bad looks while daytripping to Portsmouth from Farnborough. At one point while sitting at an outdoor bar a guy behind us politely asked if she wouldn't mind moving to a different seat so he would be subjected to it. I was mindblown. So began the discussion with the family and my sister who is a nurse. It was her first hand knowledge that indicated that it isn't widely accepted.

BTW we never shifted.