Security of Samples (1 Viewer)

[BearMetal]

Everybody loves CPC custom chips. They give us our own unique take on a theme. Some of them are true works of art, while others are nods to fantasy and/or dream sets. After spending 3 to 6 months designing, 9+ months waiting, and a month cleaning, your little CPC babies are finally ready to show PCF and the world. And, of course, everybody here is an addict and "in for samples".

But therein lies my question, especially for cash sets. Isn't it a security problem to sell sample sets? The situation I'm thinking of is that one of us sells 20 sample sets, which means there's $2000+ of bank in sample sets in the wild. What happens when that owner travels to a meetup with their custom set? Isn't it entirely possible that someone might try to insert a sample-set-purchased-chip into the table?

Of course, I haven't heard of this or seen mention of this before, but it occurred to me while in the bathtub with my chips last night.

Anyway, curious to hear people's thoughts. Perhaps it's a matter of "only bring your custom set to a meetup where you know and trust the members".

Edit: Yes, I know that any of us that have sets based on casinos sold by TCR could also have this problem. However the idea here was that by creating a custom set you would have a unique set that should be secure.

 

[Himewad]

it occurred to me while in the bathtub with my chips last night.

come again?

 

[12thMan]

Well, I suppose it's a concern just because what you stated is fact: tourney or cash if you sell samples there is "bank" out in the wild and no cash in your drawer on game night to account for it. So yeah, it's a concern, but it's a sad concern because I never would have ever hesitated to offer samples to any and all back in the day had I got a CPC order through before this site was as big as it is.

Now though? When my first, of many hopefully, CPC set is ordered I absolutely will offer samples to any who wants them privately, but I'm not so sure I would make a thread and sell a bunch.

That's nothing against this site or 99.9% of the members, it's just that since this site has reached the numbers it has the simple "some people are shit heads" formula must be applied and they most definitely walk amongst us.


Also, I hate how samples get sold to people who only want to flip or use them as pawns for trading. Every sample set I have I feel privileged to own and I want them on my walls forever.

 

[Trihonda]

I have a couple custom CPC sets. My tourney set, I offered up samples, and shipped dozens of sets out. No worries.

But my cash set, I chose not to. I host a meetup (and a number of chippers at my home games), and while I'm 99.9% sure someone wouldn't introduce sample chips into my cash game, I chose the route of a virtual certainty that it won't happen. Trust me, I get asked for sample sets of my FT cash chips ALL the time, but I have to respectfully decline. It's not that I don't trust the individual chipper, it's just a set integrity issue.

 

[BearMetal]

come again?

Sorry, typo, should have been, "in my bed with my chips last night"

 

[Eloe2000]

There are definitely people who don’t sell sample sets for exactly this reason.

It seems like of lot of effort to ruin a $40 sample set to sneak what, maybe a $100 and $25 chip onto a table of people that you spend a lot of time talking with.

As for me… the value of people appreciating my custom set outweighs the very very very slim chance that someone in a tight community might try to scam like $100 from a game.

 

[BearMetal]

That's nothing against this site or 99.9% of the members, it's just that since this site has reached the numbers it has the simple "some people are shit heads" formula must be applied and they most definitely walk amongst us.

I completely agree. It's nothing against this site, but as big as it is, it hit me that it would be a concern.

Trust me, I get asked for same sets of my FT cash chips ALL the time, but I have to respectfully decline. It's not that I don't trust the individual chipper, it's just a set integrity issue.

To @12thMan's point above, I would most likely only offer them to people that I have a tremendous history with on PCF. That would at least prevent me from having night sweats over the idea that somebody would just be waiting to insert samples into a game. And I would most certainly hope that they wouldn't be used as trade bait.

I guess part of the reason that I ask this is to see if anyone actually marks the samples before sending them out. Self-canceling could be an option, but would most likely lower the value/desire of the samples.

 

[Josh Kifer]

This is one of the reasons I only did 4 sample sets for the Pete's.

 

[Sprouty]

Sorry, typo, should have been, "in my bed with my chips last night"

I take baths.

I got no shame....

 

[BearMetal]

There are definitely people who don’t sell sample sets for exactly this reason.

It seems like of lot of effort to ruin a $40 sample set to sneak what maybe. $100 and $25 chip onto a table of people that you spend a lot of time talking with.

As for me. The value of people appreciating my custom set outweighs the very very very slim chance that someone in a tight community might try to scam like $100 from a game.

I think this is exactly the way that I felt. But I just wanted to see if there were others who felt the same way.

Mostly I was curious if anyone had already sold samples that were somehow canceled to prevent this problem.

 

[warma]

This is one of the reasons I only did 4 sample sets for the Pete's.

I’m willing to buy any sample sets of yours on the condition that they remain in a different time zone than you at all times.

 

[JMC9389]

You're not the only one. I gave out sample sets for my tournament sets, but there will be none offered for my cash set projects. Sorry folks!

 

[MatthewTreeTree]

My chips are ugly enough that nobody would want to steal or purchase sample sets thankfully enough (cash-set)

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

There are definitely people who don’t sell sample sets for exactly this reason.

It seems like of lot of effort to ruin a $40 sample set to sneak what maybe. $100 and $25 chip onto a table of people that you spend a lot of time talking with.

As for me. The value of people appreciating my custom set outweighs the very very very slim chance that someone in a tight community might try to scam like $100 from a game.

This. I would definitely notice if a $100 gets on the felt at my game.

Although I’ve considered a personal cancellation stamp for the 100s. Doubles as security and also an extra unique personal touch.

 

[Sprouty]

The big denoms will likely never see the felt, so if a chip does make it back into my game my losses will be minimal.

Also, the large denoms will only be available in a limited amount of charity auctions for sample sets. I'd like to think those bidding aren't looking to angle shoot in one way or another.

While I value security, I also love sharing what I created with others. It's been tough for me not to share more chips than I already have.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Of course, I haven't heard of this or seen mention of this before, but it occurred to me while in the bathtub with my chips last night.

 

[davislane]

Just drill or notch the $100+ cash chips.........

 

[Perthmike]

I guess in the past you could trust a bit more with giving samples. But they are a hot commodity these days lol so maybe it's best not to.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I guess part of the reason that I ask this is to see if anyone actually marks the samples before sending them out. Self-canceling could be an option, but would most likely lower the value/desire of the samples.

You know, this is a great idea.

I wouldn't be worried about ringers, but I absolutely understand the itchy feeling of knowing that the set is compromised, even if just in theory. The perfect way to make that nagging voice go away is to cancel the samples before you send them out.

I'd use a cancellation mark of some sort that was complementary to the chip design itself. No notching or drilling! Instead, add an ink mark or paint splotch or something (using permanent pigment!) and put it somewhere that makes it look at least somewhat intentional rather than disrupting or obscuring too much of the design. Think of it like signing a baseball card! It's a unique personalization that makes the chip even more distinct and special (and valuable) for being part of a limited set of samples. And at the same time, it ensures it can never be snuck back into your game, and makes it a "cancelled" chip rather than a "loose" chip so that the integrity of your set - and your peace of mind - remains undisturbed.

 

[Suited Connector]

You could just not offer the higher denomination chips or if someone had to have them offer them at face value.

 

[Saoliver]

This is one of the reasons I only did 4 sample sets for the Pete's.

Here’s my take: I only give cash samples to friends. If they sell them, or try to sneak them into my games, well, then they must really need the money.

That being said, I cashed in some samples at @Josh Kifer game. But I took other samples, so it’s a wash.

I also may have left an upper decker in his basement bathroom. And I definitely peed in his shower.

Tourney samples I don’t give two shits about. Sneak a tourney chip in. I don’t really care. Hahahahahaha

 

[Rhodeman77]

For someone to bring a sample set that was bought on here that means:

1. They spent money to travel to my game to play.

2. They are from PCF and I would know that.

3. At the end of the game when I clean up and find an extra $25/$100 chip who is going to be the person I suspect?

4. Many games don’t get a chip bigger than $20/25 into play anyways.

Is it a “risk” sure, but I think it is somewhere between 0 and 0.1%

If I did host a large multi day Meetup with a bunch of people I don’t know from the site I would think the risk might go to 0.2%. But is someone is going to risk it is far more likely they would try to steal from the game/house than introduce a chip or 2.

I think there was someone that had their cash/wallet go missing at meetup. That is something I would be more concerned about as a real risk.

 

[Eloe2000]

For that matter how many people are playing cash games with available chips anyway? JACKs, Boat chips, old casinos, fantasy chips etc. Most people.

 

[grantc54]

You know, this is a great idea.

I wouldn't be worried about ringers, but I absolutely understand the itchy feeling of knowing that the set is compromised, even if just in theory. The perfect way to make that nagging voice go away is to cancel the samples before you send them out.

I'd use a cancellation mark of some sort that was complementary to the chip design itself. No notching or drilling! Instead, add an ink mark or paint splotch or something (using permanent pigment!) and put it somewhere that makes it look at least somewhat intentional rather than disrupting or obscuring too much of the design. Think of it like signing a baseball card! It's a unique personalization that makes the chip even more distinct and special (and valuable) for being part of a limited set of samples. And at the same time, it ensures it can never be snuck back into your game, and makes it a "cancelled" chip rather than a "loose" chip so that the integrity of your set - and your peace of mind - remains undisturbed.

Just remove the inlay on one side. Easy to spot if added and can still be displayed without issue.

 

[eightyWon]

come again?

He would if he hadn't already, twice.

 

[shorticus]

Couldn’t you make the argument with public group buys? Especially the low end ceramics? Private group buys are a little more secure, but pose the same issue as selling samples.

Edit: I saw your edit

 

[BearMetal]

The big denoms will likely never see the felt, so if a chip does make it back into my game my losses will be minimal.

My concern was that at a meetup, that's exactly when these higher denominations would actually see felt. In my local game they definitely wouldn't, but when I have 10 PC offers buying in ... Well frankly that's what the higher denomination chips were made for.

Just drill or notch the $100+ cash chips.........

Always an option. It would just be great if we could find a complimentary way to mark the chip that's not destructive. I was mostly curious if anyone had actually done this yet on their sample sets.

I'd use a cancellation mark of some sort that was complementary to the chip design itself.

Right! But so far all the sample sets that I've seen offered up don't have this type of mark. Seems like nobody's done this yet.

You could just not offer the higher denomination chips or if someone had to have them offer them at face value.

Yeah, that's an idea too. I honestly don't care if a $20 gets snuck in. It's not something that's going to break the bank. But, sometimes the higher denominations make the set.

Just remove the inlay on one side. Easy to spot if added and can still be displayed without issue.

That's an interesting idea. It only messes up a single side of the chip. But again, I think it would be best of there's a way to complimentarily mark one side instead of doing it destructively.

Couldn’t you make the argument with public group buys? Especially the low end ceramics? Private group buys are a little more secure, but pose the same issue as selling samples.

Yeah, I edited my original post to point out that any public group buy or even any casino set from TCR could have this problem. But I think that my original post was geared towards CPC because those seem to offer the highest level of security. They're completely custom, and much harder and more expensive to duplicate.

 

[JMC9389]

Here’s my take: I only give cash samples to friends. If they sell them, or try to sneak them into my games, well, then they must really need the money.

That being said, I cashed in some samples at @Josh Kifer game. But I took other samples, so it’s a wash.

I also may have left an upper decker in his basement bathroom. And I definitely peed in his shower.

Tourney samples I don’t give two shits about. Sneak a tourney chip in. I don’t really care. Hahahahahaha

B.b.b.b but, what about ICM implications?

 

[shorticus]

Yeah, I edited my original post to point out that any public group buy or even any casino set from TCR could have this problem. But I think that my original post was geared towards CPC because those seem to offer the highest level of security. They're completely custom, and much harder and more expensive to duplicate.

So in this case, if I were doing so, I’d limit my sample sets to people I trusted if I thought security were a major concern. I would also request FROR on the resale of the chips. If I planned to just sell the sample sets out on the open market (ala trying to help with the cost of the purchase) I’d simply sell them for more than the value of the chips and I wouldn’t build my sets with any $100/chips or maybe omit them from the sample set. So every sample set would be > $32/set.

 

[krafticus]

I’d say with this community… your chances of a sold sample set being reintroduced is between 0.0000001 and 0%

I give mine to my local guys for $0, and never had an issue. 99.9999999% of people coming to a meetup aren’t coming to bank on cashing a $100 chip anyway. I’d say it’s crazy to think it will really happen