Running a Home WSOP Buyin Tourney - Need Tips / Advice (1 Viewer)

[justsomedude]

I'm thinking about running a 3-day / 2-flight, 10k stack tourney, Fri-Sun, with $250 buyins, winner take all $10,000 - and winner is required to use the $10k as their WSOP ME buyin. Need 50 players to really make it work.

I'm really at the ground stages of planning this and looking for advice. Specifically, I have some questions about the following:

1) Level length: 60min, 90min, 120min? I can't use my standard 25min structure, as I know people will want some solid table time for this type of buyin.
2) Antes: yay/nay?
3) Allow re-entries?
4) I'll have $2,500 on top of the top price ... is it worth it to bring in dealers?
5) To incentivize players to join, should I require the winner to return a % of any WSOP winnings to the tournament entrants? If so, how should I break that down?
6) With 50 players and only 3 tables to run this tourney on, does 2-flights make sense? Day 1a (Thursday), Day 1b (Friday), and then final day (Sunday)?

Any other tips/suggestions/advice for people who have run something like this?

 

[jbutler]

Would it be possible to do 50k stacks and use the actual 2016 WSOP main blind structure (here)? You might want to drop the levels to 45 or 60 minutes, but I would think that using the actual structure might be a cool selling point to some folks.

 

[Rhodeman77]

That is a lot of people for only 1 person to get paid. You would need to make a rule that it has to be played to a winner, no chopping allowed.

The extra money should be given to the winner as travel/hotel expense.

Yes, 20 to 25% should be given back to everyone that played in the tournament.

Realistically I think it would be very hard to get 50 people to put out $250 for 2 days of poker and only 1 person gets anything for it.

Running a several month league where each month some of the money is set aside for a main event game to award a seat to ME would have a better chance of happening.

 

[jbutler]

Realistically I think it would be very hard to get 50 people to put out $250 for 2 days of poker and only 1 person gets anything for it.

Agree completely.

However, as one conflicting data point, this is one of the only type of tournaments I would actually be excited to play, so you might draw interest from people typically not into tourneys.

 

[ChipTalker]

I agree it will be difficult to get 50 people for that but I have been part of something that has worked in the past so I will share.
10 SNG tournaments that satellite to a main table of 10 for grand prize. I recommend $120 entry that way prize pool is 12k leaving some money for travel. It is hard to force someone to go to WSOP if they do not have the travel expenses. This is so much easier because you can usually find 10 people a week plus a person that busted last week is welcome to try again in any of the other weeks. This also fixes your kickback problem as a typical deal is 55% to winner if he wins at WSOP and 5% back each to the final table so a 55/45 split. I'm sure I am forgetting other details but you get the idea.

I won the satellite but sold my $1200 seat for $800 to someone who wanted in but did not make it as I knew taking that much time off for WSOP would not go over well.

 

[bentax1978]

Realistically I think it would be very hard to get 50 people to put out $250 for 2 days of poker and only 1 person gets anything for it.

I think this would be the biggest issue (for me). There's almost no way I'd play a two day, 50 person tournament that was winner take all.

I'd personally be more inclined to play a 50 person $500 tournament where the op price was 12.5k (10k ME+2.5k expenses), 2nd = 6k, 3rd = 3.5k, 4th = 2k and 5th = 1k.

 

[Rhodeman77]

The other option would be to send a 6 players to a $1500 event and give each one $500 for travel expense and use the balance for food/drinks.

You wouldn't be playing to a single winner but still a nice payout with just over 10% of the field getting something.

 

[mummel]

Dont forget about taxes. The extra $ should go towards getting the IRS off the winner's back.

 

[DJ Mack]

And security. That much coin and casting that wide of a net for participants you're bound to attract the attention of a few unwelcomes. Off duty law enforcement can usually be had for about $40/hr but they might not be permitted to work it if the event isn't in full compliance with local and state gaming laws.

 

[Rhodeman77]

If you decide to go with the $1500 event package, if you end up with less players its not a problem. You award 1 prize for every 8 entrants. Odd money gets paid to the bubble spot.

 

[Kyle]

For security reasons, I also suggest taking the money electronically rather then having everyone bring the cash.

Anyway, I am still a big fan of going smaller and using it to go to the Heartland Poker Tour in Blackhawk. Hopefully sending several players, whatever that number may be. Then we can have fans go up locally and cheer them on.

But will certainly consider the ME at WSOP if it happens and when more details are organized.

 

[BGinGA]

I'm thinking about running a 3-day / 2-flight, 10k stack tourney, Fri-Sun, with $250 buyins, winner take all $10,000 - and winner is required to use the $10k as their WSOP ME buyin. Need 50 players to really make it work.

I'm really at the ground stages of planning this and looking for advice. Specifically, I have some questions about the following:

1) Level length: 60min, 90min, 120min? I can't use my standard 25min structure, as I know people will want some solid table time for this type of buyin.
2) Antes: yay/nay?
3) Allow re-entries?
4) I'll have $2,500 on top of the top price ... is it worth it to bring in dealers?
5) To incentivize players to join, should I require the winner to return a % of any WSOP winnings to the tournament entrants? If so, how should I break that down?
6) With 50 players and only 3 tables to run this tourney on, does 2-flights make sense? Day 1a (Thursday), Day 1b (Friday), and then final day (Sunday)?

Any other tips/suggestions/advice for people who have run something like this?

1. Will get back to you on that one, but see #2.
2. Yes - use the wsop structure
3. I would allow one re-buy per player. Bad beat insurance.
4. Yes to dealers.
5. Yes. Good ideas above on offering multiple smaller event seats to more finishers, all with kickback of winnings sharing to all tourney participants.
6. I will need to run the numbers, but you will likely be able to run it in two days -- Day1a in am, Day1b in pm (each going from 25 players to 15), with Day2 combined final three tables on the second day.

 

[nitzilla]

I was going to email this straight to Andrew, but here was something a friend of mine tried to get off the ground back in 2005..........obviously the amounts are a bit "off" by current WSOP MEs..... It never got enough traction, but I was definitely in.... Man I can't believe this was over TEN years ago my first WSOP was 2006, so this must have helped motivate me to go.......


Fantasy Poker Tour 2005/2006
What?: win a seat into the 2006 world series of poker $10,000 main event.
When?: beginning ist week of may, 2005, ending last Week of may, 2006. tournaments held twice Weekly.
Where: a rotating game will take place between All entrants (we need 10 players to make this happen, but we can have more)
How: each participant will be responsible for Playing in fifty (50) tournaments in a 13 Month period.
How much? Each tournament you play costs $30.
Of that $30, $21 goes into an overall pool. The other $9 goes into that evening’s tournament. Winner of
Tournament receives everyones $9.
Scoring: each player plays 50 tournaments.
1st place – 6 points
2nd place – 5 points
3rd place – 4 points
4th place – 3 points
5th place – 2 points
6th place – 1 point
each tournament must have a minimum of 6 players in order to be official. Outside players will be allowed to play but will not receive any points. Basically, they are playing a $9 tournament, winner take all. Should they finish in the top 6, they will negate those points (i.e. if they finish 1st, no one in our league would get 6 points for that tourney)
Once everyone has played 50 tournaments, the player with the most total points, will receive $10,000(as a buy in to the w.s.o.p.) + 500 in travel expenses. The $ will come from the pool - $21 x 10 Players = $210 x 50 tournaments = $10,500.
The winner will then, theoretically, be the best of the group and will go and represent us in the wsop.
All winnings at the wsop will be paid out (after taxes) as follows: 50% to the w.s.o.p player, and the other 50% paid out evenly to the other 9 players.
Projected 2006 w.s.o.p. payouts:

*an estimated 7,500 participants for 2006.
600th place: $10,000
300th place: $20,000
128th place: $60,000
75th place: $120,000
29th place: $373,000
20th place: 675,000
10th place (the cutoff b4 final table): $1,600,000
Final table: $3,000,000
Runner up: $7,000,000
Winner: $15,000,000

That would sum up as follows (after taxes!!):
600th place: $3,500 to winner of our league $389 to each of the other players
300th place: $7,000 to winner of our league $778 to each of the other players
128th place: $21,000 to winner of our league $2,334 to each of the other players
75th place: $36,000 to winner of our league $4,000 to each of the other players
29th place: $93,250 to winner of our league $10,361 to each of the other players
20th place: $168,750 to winner of our league $18,750 to each of the other players
10th place (the cutoff b4 final table): $400,000 to winner of our league $44,444 to each of the other players
Final table: $750,ooo to winner of our league, $83,333 to each of the other 9 players
runner up: $1,750,000 to winner of our league, $194,444 to each of the other 9 players
winner: $3,750,000 to winner of our league,
$416,666 to each of the other 9 players

 

[Payback]

Personally, I wouldn't play a winner take all 50 player tournament over multiple days. F-that. I'd rather put the money on fire. If your going to do this, do it as a small series, like 12 tournaments and have only like top 10 tournaments for each individual qualify them for points and pay out a bunch of smaller $1,500 seats. I would keep the pools at like 70/30 or 80/20 of each tournament payout/world series collection. I would also refrain from going the above suggestion route of 50 tournaments as takes things to far the other direction IMO. I like the suggestion of keeping the WSOP blind structure and just changing the level times as that gets players used to what they would be facing in the series.

If your're stuck on the 10k buy in the oher thought is you could offer a bunch of satellites or super satellites to a bigger buy in tournament. Offer the final tournament for $1k if you want to buy in directly (again just a number I'm picking) and have a few weeks before where you offer $200 satellites to get people into the bigger tournament.

I would keep the league share in there and maybe have points count toward the final percentage they get toward the pool's cut (Ex. If the league had 1000 points total for the year the person who got 150 points would have 15% of the player pool share, the guy that has 5 points gets 0.5% of the share). That way each point that you earn helps out your percentage of keeping each player. You want people to show up, even if they have no chance of winning and by coming to play and putting their dead money in the pool, they still are getting something back for it.

 

[lnlver]

Or you could run 5-10 seat sit-and-go type satellites with the top 2 winning seats to the final table; winner gets the prize. If my math is correct, the buy-in would be around $250. Much easier to manage all the people and the cash this way.

 

[bentax1978]

Or you could run 5-10 seat sit-and-go type satellites with the top 2 winning seats to the final table; winner gets the prize. If my math is correct, the buy-in would be around $250. Much easier to manage all the people and the cash this way.

I played in a charity event back once that had a similar shootout type format. There were nine/ten tables with nine/ten players each. Winner from each "sit-and-go" went to the final table. Winner of the final table got a ticket to the ME. I came in 5th and got an iPad. Kids were happy, me not as much.

 

[lnlver]

Re my previous post, you could allow re-buys up until a certain level. This money could make a nice second place prize. For 8 re-buys, that's $2,000, for 10, it's $2,500, and so on.

 

[bivey]

When we run something like this, every player gets a small stake of the winner, say 1% for 50 people.

 

[justsomedude]

Would it be possible to do 50k stacks and use the actual 2016 WSOP main blind structure (here)? You might want to drop the levels to 45 or 60 minutes, but I would think that using the actual structure might be a cool selling point to some folks.

Definitely dig the idea! I just don't have that kind of chip set. At least, not right now.

1. Will get back to you on that one, but see #2.
2. Yes - use the wsop structure
3. I would allow one re-buy per player. Bad beat insurance.
4. Yes to dealers.
5. Yes. Good ideas above on offering multiple smaller event seats to more finishers, all with kickback of winnings sharing to all tourney participants.
6. I will need to run the numbers, but you will likely be able to run it in two days -- Day1a in am, Day1b in pm (each going from 25 players to 15), with Day2 combined final three tables on the second day.

Sweet... I'll add in the re-entry. Let me know what you come up with on numbers, @BGinGA !

Running a several month league where each month some of the money is set aside for a main event game to award a seat to ME would have a better chance of happening.

Personally, I wouldn't play a winner take all 50 player tournament over multiple days. F-that. I'd rather put the money on fire. If your going to do this, do it as a small series, like 12 tournaments and have only like top 10 tournaments for each individual qualify them for points and pay out a bunch of smaller $1,500 seats.

First - let me say - thank you guys for these suggestions... they are greatly appreciated. And while I get the approach of multiple satellites or a longer running league - knowing my group - this would simply never work. Some people would flake one month to the next, or interest would wane after the 3rd satellite game, and I'd just be stuck returning everyone's money. So, with my background knowledge on my players, I'm kind of forced into the "One Big Event" approach.

You just really need to know the personalities I'm dealing with there; the complaints about a satellite/league setup would be huge. Let me give you some examples of what I've dealt with already...

"Wait, you want me to pay $60 a game for a seven or eight month league with shorter games and 25 minute levels?? Those just turn into a shove fests after a couple of hours -- That's not poker, that's just dumb. Why would I get involved with that? I'd have better luck buying a lottery ticket."
or
"So - I have to show up consistently for 8 months straight to get enough points, and if I miss one or two games I'm basically out of the running? Forget it, I'm not interested."
or
"So, these satellites you describe are self-dealt where everyone is drinking and chatting the entire time? No thanks, if I'm playing for a WSOP seat I'd like it to at least be semi-serious play going on."

So, knowing the "cons" and time commitments required going in with the multi-game/league setup, and knowing my players, the one weekend event is really geared towards them -- the guys who would take that setup and higher entry fee more seriously, want the longer levels/structure to gauge player style (and develop their own table image), and want to pony up for dealers so they can focus on the game.

And I'm really not trying to poo-poo the satellite concept, I just know I'd have almost zero buyin from my guys. Their fickle nature (and inability to commit over the long term) is what's twisting my arm towards the "One Big Event" concept.

PS: On a personal level, I also do agree with some of my guys that consistent play over a long period of time is more representative of "the better player," than some one who wins a few five-hour Friday night shove-fests. And that's really the goal here... to find the one best player among us to send to WSOP, specifically for that kind of format.

Re my previous post, you could allow re-buys up until a certain level. This money could make a nice second place prize. For 8 re-buys, that's $2,000, for 10, it's $2,500, and so on.

Dig it! Will have to definitely put this down as part of the plan.

When we run something like this, every player gets a small stake of the winner, say 1% for 50 people.

I love this idea! And my brother just suggested something similar... 51 player tourney... winner gets 50% of winnings at WSOP, 1% to all tourney entrants. This could have some legs.