Run it twice?

Ynotony

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What are your guys thoughts on running it 2 or 3 times in a cash game of course? Does it depend on the size of the pot?
 

judgeanjury

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I would never do it myself but if your asking if it should be allowed I say yes
 

ratbastard

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I wouldn’t do it if I was making the choice. If you don’t want to gamble on coin flips don’t put it all in before you see the flop.

On the other hand, it is really up to the participants of the hand to decide. I don’t know, it just feels like it changes the odds and rules and thus the way you would play the game as a result. Also, a player who is ahead might feel pressured to run it twice to not look greedy even if they might not really want to.
 

sgago84

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What are your guys thoughts on running it 2 or 3 times in a cash game of course? Does it depend on the size of the pot?

If I’m ahead I ask them if they want to run it twice (insurance basically). If I’m behind I want to run It once. I always leave it up to whomever is trying to catch up.
 

Goldfish

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Running it twice simply minimizes variance over the long term. If u r a gambler and do not mind the bigger swings in ur bankroll then run it once. If u r more conservative and don’t want to swing as much then run it twice. In my opinion u should not make that determination based on the hand u r up against. the only determining factors in my mind are the size of the game and whether the majority of players at the table r going once or twice. in bigger games I always will go twice, assuming the majority of the table is doing it. Smaller games I go once.
 

chrismurda

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I prefer to run it once and am open to chopping blinds (when no ante), but I wouldn’t be opposed to running it more times if I was asked nicely.
 

Mojo1312

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What are your guys thoughts on running it 2 or 3 times in a cash game of course? Does it depend on the size of the pot?

That is a noob question.

Running it two or three times is only as good as the opportunity it presents. Why wouldn't you run it twice or three times if you are a four to one dog for example?

The same is true for taking her easy. If she is easy, you take her twice.

I know. You can't believe I am giving you such good advice for free.
 

Rhodeman77

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I like blood in the water!!!

For the most part I won’t run it twice. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. If I am stuck I only run it once. I can’t get back to even or winning if I chop the pot. I can always rebuy if I lose.

I will run it twice if I am up a lot and the other person is stuck a lot and asks for it.

I will also run it twice in monster pots, say 6+ full buy-ins in the pot.

Other than those situations I will only run it once. I want more money on the table. If I win I want the other person to rebuy, if I lose I want the other player to no have to play in a deeper stack game where they can make more mistakes.

Also if someone knows you will always run it twice they are going to be more inclined to get it all-in on the flop with any draw figuring they will hit at least one board. So it can reduce your fold equity a lot.
 

Ynotony

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That is a noob question.

Running it two or three times is only as good as the opportunity it presents. Why wouldn't you run it twice or three times if you are a four to one dog for example?

The same is true for taking her easy. If she is easy, you take her twice.

I know. You can't believe I am giving you such good advice for free.
Gotcha. Guess this isn’t the place to ask “noob questions” my bad cool guy
 

trigs

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I prefer running it once but if opponent wants to run it two or three times, I'm fine with that - no more than three times though.

However, I do take note of those who want to run it more than once as they are more likely to play as scared money. It's definitely a tell that you're playing higher than you're comfortable playing.
 

Eriks

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I like it, in my experience it loosens up the game. I prefer 3 times though
 

Coyote

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Shouldn't this decision be made before the players open their cards? (i.e. without knowing who is ahead)? IDK.
If we know who is ahead, 3 times (instead of 2) is more fair to the person ahead.
 

Jake14mw

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Firstly... I admit this may be a "noob" comment, but isn't there math to this that would make it advantageous to one party or another based on the situation?
 

danopoker

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Agreed, even if you have some oddball situation like As4s* against 8s3s* and a flop of 7s 6s 5s giving player 1 the nut flush and player 2 a one-outer (9s), it's still the same EV running it once or twice.

Running it once gives the pot to player 1 if anything but the 9s is dealt in the next two cards, which happens (44 / 45) * (43 / 44) = 43/45 of the time.

Running it twice means he scoops if anything but the 9s is dealt in the next four cards, which happens (44 / 45) * (43 / 44) * (42 / 43) * (41 / 42) = 41/45 of the time. They will chop the pot the remaining 4/45 of the time, meaning player 1 has an additional 2/45 EV when that happens, giving him a total EV of (41 + 2) / 45 which is exactly the same if they ran it once.

Conversely, player 2 gets the whole pot running it once 2/45 of the time, and half a pot 4/45 of the time running it twice, giving him the same EV (of course).

Only difference running it twice is that player 2 has a better chance of winning something, but he cannot scoop in that case.** Same EV, less variance.

* My initial scenario was not quite correct, corrected now.
**Edited this sentence to make it correct and clearer.
 
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DrStrange

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As the host I try to discourage such things. Why? Because they slow the game down to a crawl. Some of the players have enough trouble reading the board plus the exposed hands. We will surely stop at least once an hour for one of the players to figure out why he/she lost the hand.

Running it more than once doesn't change the expected value, just lowers the variance. But letting people negotiate, discuss and explain what is going on imposes a sure cost to everyone.

Then we have to keep in mind that the game is self dealt. You can bet your bottom dollar that someone is going to screw up the "run it xxx" proposition. Maybe the dealer deals out one board then scoops up the muck. Maybe they decide lots of burn cards are needed, or maybe none. God help us if they scrum the board.

Running it xxx is more of a TV thing. We don't play for stakes large enough for the variance to matter. Sure, it runs smoothly with experienced players and well trained dealers. That isn't us.

Life is simpler without the hassle -=- DrStrange
 

danopoker

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I like blood in the water!!!

For the most part I won’t run it twice. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. If I am stuck I only run it once. I can’t get back to even or winning if I chop the pot. I can always rebuy if I lose.

I will run it twice if I am up a lot and the other person is stuck a lot and asks for it.

I will also run it twice in monster pots, say 6+ full buy-ins in the pot.

Other than those situations I will only run it once. I want more money on the table. If I win I want the other person to rebuy, if I lose I want the other player to no have to play in a deeper stack game where they can make more mistakes.

Also if someone knows you will always run it twice they are going to be more inclined to get it all-in on the flop with any draw figuring they will hit at least one board. So it can reduce your fold equity a lot.
Some interesting things to think about here, some of which I hadn't considered (the last point in particular).
 

BGinGA

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Personally, I never run it twice. Once or three times; I'm not playing cards just to chop pots. I think running it twice simply wastes everybody's time.

I used to deal a private (raked) cash game that only allowed running it more than once (and never more than three) if the pot exceeded three digits.
 

Goldfish

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The type of game u play is also worthy of consideration. I usually play 5 card plo and big o at a decent stake level, so the prospect of coming up against another monster hand for a big pot is high. Running it twice is pretty common in the games I play to minimize variance in those situations.

I do understand slowing down the game, especially in split pot games where chopping the pot can take a while. One regular game I play in only allows running it twice if the pot exceeds a certain amount.
 

Coyote

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Is there a rule (in cash games) about NOT showing cards BEFORE the run once/twice/three times has been agreed upon?
I understand that in cash games no cards have to be shown, even if all-in, unless it's run more than once.
 

upNdown

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Personally, I never run it twice. Once or three times; I'm not playing cards just to chop pots. I think running it twice simply wastes everybody's time.

I used to deal a private (raked) cash game that only allowed running it more than once (and never more than three) if the pot exceeded three digits.
Yes! The only reason I'd consider twice is if there's significant dead money in the pot. Otherwise, once or three times, with a preference for once.
 
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