Rules debate (1 Viewer)

[Machine]

ox-penis-whip-armed instructor

can we get pix? I'm not sure I know what this is

 

[Coyote]

can we get pix? I'm not sure I know what this is

I now think the correct term in English would be bullwhip. A bull without his genitals becomes an ox.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

View attachment 861849
I now think the correct term in English would be bullwhip. A bull without his genitals becomes an ox.

Or a politician. But we'll leave that for another thread..

 

[ekricket]

View attachment 861849
I now think the correct term in English would be bullwhip. A bull without his genitals becomes an ox.

I thought it was a guy with a bull penis for an arm, ala Carl Hiaasen

 

[CrazyEddie]

can we get pix?

can we not

 

[CrazyEddie]

So, unless I’m missing another good reason, the only good reason for this rule is to give the players in the game an option to confirm their suspicions if they think there might be collusion going on?

Essentially, yes. So the answer to your original question:

Someone looked up the rules and said that the player that calls on the river is entitled to see the opponents cards.

... is No, but actually Yes, but actually No. But actually Maybe.

A player doesn't have to show their hand; they are allowed to discard it rather than contest the pot. They only have to show their hand if they're trying to claim the pot, and they don't even need to do that if everyone else discards first.

BUT ACTUALLY everyone who was dealt into the hand is entitled to see any hand that went to the showdown. The rules here are slightly fiddly wrt which hands then become live or dead depending on who asked to see which hands, and the rules are slightly different between RROP (cash games) and TDA (tournaments). But the basic idea is still that hands discarded at the showdown can still be asked to be shown.

BUT ACTUALLY this is not a strict entitlement! Asking to see discarded hands is a privilege, and that privilege can be revoked if abused.

... but what constitutes "abuse" ? There are at least two different schools of thought here. The first is that the privilege exists in order to prevent collusion, and that the privilege should only be invoked in cases where collusion is suspected. Using the privilege simply because you want to know what cards someone takes to the showdown so as to better learn their betting patterns constitutes an abuse of the privilege.

HOWEVER the second school of thought is that the privilege exists exactly so that you can see what cards someone takes to the showdown! Having "paid to see their cards" you are in fact entitled to see those cards, even if they discard them and yield the pot. The reason one might not is either courtesy, apathy, or expediency - most would rather keep the game flowing to the next hand rather than turn over every hand at every showdown. But one could still ask, even if possible collusion isn't a factor. Abuse of the privilege constitutes asking to see discarded hands every hand, because doing so slows down the game, and thus if the host thinks you're using your privilege "too much" then it might be revoked.

RROP is silent on which of these two interpretations is correct. Most go with the first but some go with the second, as you can see in this very thread.

SO ACTUALLY the answer is Maybe, because it's up to the host to decide whether you can demand to see the discarded hands only to prevent collusion or instead any time you like as long as it's not too often.

 

[LotsOfChips]

Essentially, yes. So the answer to your original question:


... is No, but actually Yes, but actually No. But actually Maybe.

A player doesn't have to show their hand; they are allowed to discard it rather than contest the pot. They only have to show their hand if they're trying to claim the pot, and they don't even need to do that if everyone else discards first.

BUT ACTUALLY everyone who was dealt into the hand is entitled to see any hand that went to the showdown. The rules here are slightly fiddly wrt which hands then become live or dead depending on who asked to see which hands, and the rules are slightly different between RROP (cash games) and TDA (tournaments). But the basic idea is still that hands discarded at the showdown can still be asked to be shown.

BUT ACTUALLY this is not a strict entitlement! Asking to see discarded hands is a privilege, and that privilege can be revoked if abused.

... but what constitutes "abuse" ? There are at least two different schools of thought here. The first is that the privilege exists in order to prevent collusion, and that the privilege should only be invoked in cases where collusion is suspected. Using the privilege simply because you want to know what cards someone takes to the showdown so as to better learn their betting patterns constitutes an abuse of the privilege.

HOWEVER the second school of thought is that the privilege exists exactly so that you can see what cards someone takes to the showdown! Having "paid to see their cards" you are in fact entitled to see those cards, even if they discard them and yield the pot. The reason one might not is either courtesy, apathy, or expediency - most would rather keep the game flowing to the next hand rather than turn over every hand at every showdown. But one could still ask, even if possible collusion isn't a factor. Abuse of the privilege constitutes asking to see discarded hands every hand, because doing so slows down the game, and thus if the host thinks you're using your privilege "too much" then it might be revoked.

RROP is silent on which of these two interpretations is correct. Most go with the first but some go with the second, as you can see in this very thread.

SO ACTUALLY the answer is Maybe, because it's up to the host to decide whether you can demand to see the discarded hands only to prevent collusion or instead any time you like as long as it's not too often.

LOL, clear as mud!

 

[allforcharity]

My opinion, I think that hands that go all the way to showdown should be revealed, so that 1) all live hands have a chance to claim the pot in case a hand is misread and 2) to maintain game security by disincentivising collusion.

But, TBH, what the heck do I know.

 

[BGinGA]

What would you charge, hourly, for being an ox-penis-whip-armed instructor, floor manager and enforcer in Athenian home games?

About tree-fiddy, usd only. PM incoming...

 

[Mr Winberg]

I'm not saying this is correct, but at my place if player A gets called and discards, then he's given up the pot and player B wins (without even having to show since he's the only player left in the hand). If for some reason someone saw A's cards and that it was a better hand, my response would be "yes, it was a better hand...until he threw it away".

Again, not saying it's correct, but it's a house rule. I'm really trying to push "if you're called then just f*cking show and stop wasting everyone's time. Don't wanna show? Then discard so we can move on!"