Richochet Poker (1 Viewer)

A game designer I'm familiar with (as is @Mrs Poker Zombie and @Poker Zombie - James Ernest) has developed a casino table game - Ricochet Poker. It's going to start a field trial at the Stratosphere on 1/28.

You can check out his introductory video here:
Wow that's pretty interesting. In regards to table games, I'm only familiar with black jack where all players have the potential to win (esp if the dealer busts). This is an interesting dynamic where as soon as one person beats the dealer, then one of the remaining players is guaranteed to take down the money. Then they just compete against each other. So it's interesting that there is only one real winner of the main hand.

I don't know what the odds are for getting dealt a pair of Tens or better, but the side bets have got to be where the casino is making their edge.
 
he lost me on why the dealer would be forced to fold a good hand. don't they want the house to win????

We play ricochet this way:

https://boardgamegeek.com/video/227963/ricochet-poker/shut-sit-down-teaches-ricochet-poker

Except that the guy in the video is a moron and can't deal clockwise around the table and doesn't know that A4 is beaten by A6 so he should stop there and it ricochet's back to A4 at that point.

We give everyone 20 chips and play mini tournaments. When half the table is knocked out, the ante goes to 2 chips and the cost per card is 2 chips, afterwards, everytime a player is knocked out, the cost per card goes up by one.
 
he lost me on why the dealer would be forced to fold a good hand. don't they want the house to win????

We play ricochet this way:

https://boardgamegeek.com/video/227963/ricochet-poker/shut-sit-down-teaches-ricochet-poker

Except that the guy in the video is a moron and can't deal clockwise around the table and doesn't know that A4 is beaten by A6 so he should stop there and it ricochet's back to A4 at that point.

We give everyone 20 chips and play mini tournaments. When half the table is knocked out, the ante goes to 2 chips and the cost per card is 2 chips, afterwards, everytime a player is knocked out, the cost per card goes up by one.
Interesting game. Thanks for posting that BGG video. Yeah it seems like it should bounce back to A4 after A6, so I'd probably only buy 1 card with the A, gambling to beat an A4.

And then I assume A4 vs A6, A4 player just needs to beat a 6, so again, not a very high risk draw.
 
he lost me on why the dealer would be forced to fold a good hand. don't they want the house to win????
Yes, but not like that. If the house wins too much nobody would ever play. The house already has a tremendous advantage with having five cards known to start the game. Auto-folding relative premium hands allows the players to win some, and the house still minimizes the “damage” from collecting the side bets. The trick here is to determine the sweet spot to maintain the house advantage in a given range of hands while still encouraging player action. This way, when the house wins, it intends to collect not just the side bets, but perhaps 12-14 total main/continuance bets.

I’ve no idea of the specific math or game theory applied here. I do know, however, that James is both quite a smart fellow and a poker aficionado, so there’s no way he hasn’t done the math to generate a particular expected house advantage over time.
 
Will have to watch later but what happens if you’re only heads up vs the dealer? If you need a minimum of two players it won’t catch on IMO. Primarily because if the dealer is just standing there they will push that person and close the table.
 
Will have to watch later but what happens if you’re only heads up vs the dealer? If you need a minimum of two players it won’t catch on IMO. Primarily because if the dealer is just standing there they will push that person and close the table.

Based on what I watched, the game could be heads up between the player and the house. The qualifying hand would just change. Dealer would essentially not be playing anything better than QQ.
 
I’d never heard of it before but I like the premise of the game.

Thus, I’m trying to work up a version that can be dealt at a home game with no house/dealer advantage. :D
 
I’d never heard of it before but I like the premise of the game.

Thus, I’m trying to work up a version that can be dealt at a home game with no house/dealer advantage. :D

this

he lost me on why the dealer would be forced to fold a good hand. don't they want the house to win????

We play ricochet this way:

https://boardgamegeek.com/video/227963/ricochet-poker/shut-sit-down-teaches-ricochet-poker

Except that the guy in the video is a moron and can't deal clockwise around the table and doesn't know that A4 is beaten by A6 so he should stop there and it ricochet's back to A4 at that point.

We give everyone 20 chips and play mini tournaments. When half the table is knocked out, the ante goes to 2 chips and the cost per card is 2 chips, afterwards, everytime a player is knocked out, the cost per card goes up by one.
 
I do know, however, that James is both quite a smart fellow and a poker aficionado, so there’s no way he hasn’t done the math to generate a particular expected house advantage over time.

His website has specific calculations: "The return to player (RTP) of Ricochet Poker is fully adjustable. We offer a set of pay tables that returns approximately 95.97% to 96.91% RTP with perfect play, depending on the number of players. Weak players can expect returns closer to 90%. " https://ricochetpoker.net/ricochet-poker-rules/
 
Thus, I’m trying to work up a version that can be dealt at a home game with no house/dealer advantage. :D

I haven't watched the video (or really looked carefully), but is what's described on this page get you what you're interested in? https://ricochetpoker.net/ricochet-poker-rules/table-game-rules/ "In this version, there is no “house” player, and each player has the same odds. Unlike other forms of poker, there is no button and no advantage for any position, because the action always jumps to the lowest hand. "
 
Now I gotta make a special stop at the Strat next summer (it's no longer called the Stratosphere, something James might wish to remember). New(ish) chips and an effort to support a good game designer.
 
My initial attempt at a home game version. It probably needs some tweaks, but I’ve self-run about a dozen 6-player hands and it seems to work well.

--- Edited for readability ---

Set a bet amount. All bets are this amount or increments of this amount. From this point forward "bet" means exactly this base amount.
  • Players ante 1x bet.
  • Players then receive two face up cards each.
  • At the same time, a 5-card dealer or "null" hand is dealt. This is the initial hand to beat.
  • Directly after the deal, any player whose 2-card hand beats the 5-card null hand gets paid 1x bet from each other player. (multiple winners here wash, and pay other winners nothing)
  • Each player, in lowest to highest hand order, decides to either:
    • Fold.
    • Or place a 1x bet into the pot to get three more up cards.
  • If the players 5-card hand beats the previous hand, he stops.
  • If the players 5-card hand does not beat the previous hand he may place a 3x bet into the pot to get two more cards.
    • If the players, now 7-card, hand beats the previous hand, he stops.
    • If the players, now 7-card, hand does not beat the previous hand he is out.
  • Any beaten or folded hand is turned face down.
  • Any player with a 5-card hand JUST beaten by another player's 7-card hand has the option to place a 3x bet into the pot to also draw up to 7 cards. Compare the hands to determine who is high. The low player is out.
  • If the high hand is a 7-card, subsequent players with 2-card hands (who are not folding) place a 1x bet into the pot to draw three more cards then, if still behind, may immediately make a 3x bet to draw two more.
  • The player with the high hand after all players have either drawn or folded wins the main pot.
  • Finally, whether they won or lost, any player WHO DREW ONLY A 5-CARD HAND with a value beyond one pair gets paid by each other player at the end.
    • EXCEPTION: players who folded 2-card hands pay nothing.
  • The amount of bets paid varies by hand strength.
    • Payout values
      • Two pair - 1 bet
      • Three of a kind - 2 bets
      • Straight - 3 bets
      • Flush - 4 bets
      • Full house - 6 bets
      • Four of a kind - 8 bets
      • Any straight flush - 10 bets
  • Anyone who drew to seven cards for their hand is not eligible for this payout.
  • If no one beats the null hand, the pot remains, players re-ante, and the deal starts over with all new hands.
 
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