Refurbishing brittle china clay chips. (1 Viewer)

Kensco

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Briefly: solids and those on ends of rolls seem most brittle, crumble in the packaging and are easily broken in half with the slightest application of force. I'm speaking about spirit molds, but this seems to apply to a couple other China clay mold styles as well.

I recently bought some grey spirit molds, as part of a larger purchase, with full knowledge of the brittleness issue - the seller was completely up front on the issue.

Assuming the brittleness is the result of the material drying out: I am going to see if I can, over the course of three weeks, restore some resiliency to the chips by:
  1. soaking one and half chips in mineral oil.
  2. soaking one and half chips in vinegar, and
  3. lightly oiling a labeled chip once per week
I'll peek in on the soaking chips and oil the labeled chip each Monday. I'll post the results here on 12/31 or 1/1.

a laid out.jpg b label on.jpg c halved.jpg
d in the soup.jpg


12/17/2018 Update:

Observations at end of first week:

No visual change to the chip soaking in mineral oil. There feels to be a layer of sludge on the chip, though nothing visible. The half-chip broke easily with slight pressure.

Bubbles could be seen clinging to the chip surface in the vinegar dish. The chip feels the same as it did the day it went into this bath. The half-chip broke easily, though it withstood slightly more pressure than the oil soaked chip.

The labeled chip feels normal & looks good. I'm not yet ready to see how easily it breaks - maybe next Monday.

I dropped the labeled chip several times onto the workbench surface (laminated particle board) from a height of about 5 inches and there was [edit] no [edit] breakage or chipping.

I may end this exercise next Monday as my attention span is not what it once was.

Image taken 12/17/18:
20181217_001.jpg


Image taken 12/17/18 (after breakage testing):
20181217_002.jpg


So far I'm thinking:

There may be such thing as too much oil,

There is some level of alkali in the chip material and it reacts to/with the vinegar. This is advantageous when working with actual clay - but may provide little or no benefit regarding poker chip "clay", China or otherwise.

I was encouraged by the labeled and oiled chip not breaking or chipping with minimal abuse, and look forward to seeing how much the label bolsters its integrity at the end of this highly unscientific experiment.

Definitely ending this next Monday (y) :thumbsup:
 
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Totally interested in this experiment, I have a bunch of these just hanging around.
I don't want to sell them to anyone because I feel like I would be screwing them when the chips fall apart after one night of play.
I had them sold on eBay, I told the guy they were brittle, and he wanted them anyway.
I just couldn't do it to him so I ended up canceling the deal.
I hope this works, good luck!!

20171208_191103.jpg
 
Totally interested in this experiment, I have a bunch of these just hanging around.
I don't want to sell them to anyone because I feel like I would be screwing them when the chips fall apart after one night of play.
I had them sold on eBay, I told the guy they were brittle, and he wanted them anyway.
I just couldn't do it to him so I ended up canceling the deal.
I hope this works, good luck!!

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Those black greys! I wanted those! I wished they worked as well as the pink and whites and reds did
 

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I've tried oiling (heavily, though not repeatedly or soaking). Also used "automotive protectant" wipes. No luck.

Really mild amounts of heat in water (microwaved in Ziploc bags for 30 s) were also unsuccessful. The next thing I was going to try was more aggressive heat. Eventually, they have to soften before they melt, right? Another poster reported warping china clays with boiling water.

In any event, interested to see your results and I'll let you know if I come up with anything.
 
Heavy oiling on all
Look at that shine.
 

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An interesting experiment but I can't see how any of these will help with making brittle chips more structurally sound. These types of CC chips are brittle because the materials they are made of is breaking down at the molecular level. Only thing that could even possibly make a difference would be soaking them in some form of bonding agent, but that would alter the chip way too much to be useful more than likely.
 
An interesting experiment but I can't see how any of these will help with making brittle chips more structurally sound. These types of CC chips are brittle because the materials they are made of ....

Agreed.

I don't hold much hope for oil alone, best bet is probably to brace the chip with the application of a label - which admittedly won't do anything to protect the edges.

There is a (very) remote chance vinegar will eat away some element that accounts for the chip being brittle, and leave behind only elements that would allow it to be supple, as it does with a chicken bone. No way to know without a practical test because I don't know what the chip is made of.

But what the hell; it's winter, I'm retired, I've got some brittle chips and lots of free time :coffee:
 
Hardwood floors dryout and warp (cup) and you're screwed. You can't rehydrate them, you have to sand them.

I don't think it will work, but I applaud the effort.
 
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I would wonder if a very thin application of super glue under a lable would add any sort of support to the material. Thinking that the layer of chip material that gets chemically reconstituted and hardened may support the center enough to save the chip.
 
Hard to say which specific component(s) are breaking down, or why -- china clays are a combination of plastics, polymers, and earth materials (silicates, etc.), plus who-knows whatever other fillers were handy at the time of manufacture.

@Meddler2 had a material analysis done at one point and published the test results (either here or on CT), but I don't have my copy readily available atm...
 
Hard to say which specific component(s) are breaking down, or why -- china clays are a combination of plastics, polymers, and earth materials (silicates, etc.), plus who-knows whatever other fillers were handy at the time of manufacture.

@Meddler2 had a material analysis done at one point and published the test results (either here or on CT), but I don't have my copy readily available atm...

It was posted on CT. Unfortunately I've lost my copy. If anybody has a screenshot it might be useful.
 
Hard to say which specific component(s) are breaking down, or why -- china clays are a combination of plastics, polymers, and earth materials (silicates, etc.), plus who-knows whatever other fillers were handy at the time of manufacture.

:yawn: Keep it in the lab professor, field work in progress here :D

Interesting analysis link: To my untrained eye it looks like the Dunes CC is closer in composition to the Paulson than is the ASM. If true, goes to show close isn't always good enough.

Momentary derail... What is up with CT?? I forgot my password or it was deactivated, whatever. So I clicked to have a reset emailed to me. Nothing but crickets. So I tried setting up a new account. Same crickets. Is it on autopilot and just marking time until it falls out of orbit?

Oh well, 'til Monday chips be soakin'.

Then I'll probably end this escapade with a tensile strength test.
 
Experiment is over:

Built a rig to test tensile strength

a.jpg

Cup to hold the weight,

Chip goes in the slot,

Bolt applies pressure to the chip.

Similar to holding a chip in your hand while applying pressure, to the top half of the chip, with your thumb.

To reduce friction, the bolt is passed through a bushing.

b.jpg


The control chip went first and withstood the pressure of all the fishing weights I could fit in the cup. Which was only 688 grams (about 24.26 ounces)

c.jpg


So I had to go to the pantry to complete the test.

The control chip broke at 2,516 grams (88.7 oz)

This would be the starting point for the ensuing tests...

d.jpg


The chip that was submerged in vinegar broke on the initial application of the 2516 grams of weight.

The chip that was submerged in oil survived the initial application of the 2516 grams of weight, but broke moments later with the application of 2574 grams (90.8 oz) of weight.

The final test would be the labeled chip that was oiled daily over the span of two weeks.

e.jpg


It broke with the initial application of the 2516 g weight.

But these were chips from the ends of the rolls and maybe their frailty was due to that positioning affording them prolonged exposure to the air and whatever other elements.

So I broke open the rolls and tested chips that had been nestled in the protected centers of those rolls.

Not a damn bit of difference. They broke with the slightest application of pressure in hand, and fell easily to the application of the 2516 g weight in the rig.

There is nothing to see here,

move along...
 
I’m glad these are holding up to a regular monthly game .
 

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Experiment is over:

There is nothing to see here,

move along...

The 'solid' spirit molds have a reputation for being brittle - so the results of your experiment don't come as much of a surprise.

Would you be interested in repeating your methods with some multicolored spirit molds that are generally more well regarded? I have some in a few different colors that I can spare - I can send them to you if you don't already own any.
 
I've had good luck with the tri-colored spirit molds with the exception of the yellow with pink & brown spots:

yel.jpg


Laying the chip across my first two fingers, and applying pressure to its center with my thumb, it took only slight pressure to break these. Roughly the same amount as I applied to the grey chips. (I was a bit pissed when I got these because I ordered the yellow with bright pink & blue spots)

I have two-tone reds I use for nickels, so I don't want to subject them to testing. But they have some flea bites and, subjectively speaking, look like they would break easily.

red.jpg


You really can judge by sight whether the chips are likely to be fragile.

Maybe a photograph doesn't illustrate this well, but in person the inferiority of the dull-spotted yellow is obvious when sitting beside the other yellow chip.

good.jpg


Unfortunately all sales are sight unseen :(

I'm currently using tri-colors in white, pink, blue, yellow, and orange and all seem very sturdy.

I'm done testing & breaking, but thanks for the offer @Moxie Mike (y) :thumbsup:
 

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