Rake structure? (1 Viewer)

[cheque_raise]

how do you guys rake home games if you do at all? I host a .25/.25 game and i have to rake it to avoid going into my own pocket. I charge a fee of 10% of every buy in, or add on, with everyone buying in for $50. i typically end up with about $80 at the end of the night and spend about $35 to provide drinks, snacks, hotdogs. I was doing beer too, but we were barely breaking even. I decided to buy a kegorator and sell the beer at no profit, and that has actually worked pretty well. Just curious how others were doing it.

 

[ekricket]

I go in the hole every week I host. I host for pleasure, not for profit or break even. I am fortunate to be able to do this, but I know some are not. Could you just go to a byob or other drinks and same with food, make it a pot luck thing?
I always figured that if people weren’t willing to bring their own food and drink then it wasn’t important to them. But we like cooking and hosting, the poker playing is just an excuse to get together.

 

[ekricket]

I did go to a small game once that charged for everything. If you wanted a shot out of someone’s bottle you had to pay. If you wanted a hot dog you had to pay. I treated it just like a casino and didn’t buy anything. Took my money at the end of the night and never went back. There’s nicer places to pay to play.

 

[buzzmonkey]

Only game I ever raked was to raise money for a cancer walk. Did a NFND, I dealt every hand and only played at the end when we were down to a few players, and every raked and tipped chip went to charity.

 

[Eloe2000]

Be careful because a rake can turn an otherwise legal home game into unlicensed illegal gambling operation. That can be a very serious crime and problem for you depending on the state. If you feel the need to collect money for food, just do it separately as $5pp food chip in fee, not as a rake.

I host because I enjoy. It’s generally BYOB. On the nights where we grill, usually one person buys the meats and everyone throws in a couple bucks. Sometimes one guy will volunteer to pick up the beer. Most nights people just bring what they want to drink and I have some general snacks... it’s only a couple bucks and at least I don’t have to drive anywhere.

 

[pltrgyst]

Raking makes your game illegal in many states, and your game unattractive to most players in all fifty states.

If you can't afford it, don't provide amenities. Let people bring their own drinks and order delivery food.

 

[Josh Kifer]

No rake ever, as that would make my game illegal. You should look up NC laws....

Hosting poker costs nothing past the table, chips, and cards. Everyone brings snacks. Everyone shares. Costs nothing.

 

[Jambine]

how do you guys rake home games if you do at all?

No rake. Even if you are in a state where home games are legal, a rake makes your game illegal

 

[wolfpack]

no rake, it makes the game illegal.

BYOB, people bring potluck snacks, chip in money for food delivery or pickup

 

[trigs]

I don't charge a rake and I usually provide some food/snacks/beer/water out of my own pocket. It's the cost of hosting imo. Also, charging rake is illegal and could possibly get me in trouble if I get caught.

 

[Colquhoun]

It only takes one person upset with your rake, or a bad beat or anything...they make a call, then you and anyone there are in for major legal trouble. Not worth it.

 

[DrStrange]

Just wondering . . . . . .

Do you ask for money at the door for your kid's birthday party? Sometimes these things get a bit pricy. Maybe each of your kid's guests can chip in $5 to help cover costs.

Ever ask a couple of friends over for dinner and then hit them for a fee just as the meal was served? Were sodas a buck each, beers three bucks and wine five dollars a glass?

Let's say you hosted a sports party - say for the Super Bowl. Do you ask for $20 per person?

The people who come to my games are also my guests. I am happy to welcome them into my home. My wife likes to cook for us and makes quite the feast. Of course this costs money, thousands of dollars every year. The players help out. Some of them bring extra food / drink. Some bring scratch off tickets. Lots of them toss in a few chips "for the house" at the end of the game. I am sure we don't come close to breaking even, but I don't even try to figure it out. The thing is, we had fun. < if my wife cooks, she gets the tip money though. It is always good to say Thank You! to the cook. >

I appreciate other people are not as fortunate as we are. It is perfectly fine to ask people to BYOB. Or to order delivery pizza and ask everyone who wants to participate to pitch in. Maybe there is a spouse involved and the hose needs to hire a cleaning crew - that is close to the line but acceptable.

The thing about a rake is it almost always collects far more than "expenses". Having someone's hands in the pot every hand taking chips can lead to all sorts of mischief. Let's just say it is easy to migrate from collecting enough to pay for dinner to collecting enough to pay for depreciation on your house with a few extra bucks for your time and effort.

Bottom line for me is, treat the players like family or guests. If you can afford to host on your own dime, do so. If you need to collect money to pay for stuff, make it open - like delivery pizza or such. Don't rake the game or charge an hourly seat fee. Be honest.

Have fun. Don't exploit your friends -=- DrStrange

 

[cheque_raise]

Just wondering . . . . . .

Do you ask for money at the door for your kid's birthday party? Sometimes these things get a bit pricy. Maybe each of your kid's guests can chip in $5 to help cover costs.

Ever ask a couple of friends over for dinner and then hit them for a fee just as the meal was served? Were sodas a buck each, beers three bucks and wine five dollars a glass?

Let's say you hosted a sports party - say for the Super Bowl. Do you ask for $20 per person?

The people who come to my games are also my guests. I am happy to welcome them into my home. My wife likes to cook for us and makes quite the feast. Of course this costs money, thousands of dollars every year. The players help out. Some of them bring extra food / drink. Some bring scratch off tickets. Lots of them toss in a few chips "for the house" at the end of the game. I am sure we don't come close to breaking even, but I don't even try to figure it out. The thing is, we had fun. < if my wife cooks, she gets the tip money though. It is always good to say Thank You! to the cook. >

I appreciate other people are not as fortunate as we are. It is perfectly fine to ask people to BYOB. Or to order delivery pizza and ask everyone who wants to participate to pitch in. Maybe there is a spouse involved and the hose needs to hire a cleaning crew - that is close to the line but acceptable.

The thing about a rake is it almost always collects far more than "expenses". Having someone's hands in the pot every hand taking chips can lead to all sorts of mischief. Let's just say it is easy to migrate from collecting enough to pay for dinner to collecting enough to pay for depreciation on your house with a few extra bucks for your time and effort.

Bottom line for me is, treat the players like family or guests. If you can afford to host on your own dime, do so. If you need to collect money to pay for stuff, make it open - like delivery pizza or such. Don't rake the game or charge an hourly seat fee. Be honest.

Have fun. Don't exploit your friends -=- DrStrange

Maybe I should have been more clear.. this game is hosted at a private club. Every single dollar that the game “profits” is re-invested in the game itself, in the form or royal flush jackpot, bad beat jack pot, high hand jack pot, added tournament money , cook-outs, cigars, security, and so fourth. Furthermore, this game is part of a circuit or games in which most of the players play.. all other hosts rake their games in some form, so I’d basically be paying the rake at their games and not charging one at mine. I was asking what type of take structures are common where you guys see them, not what your opinion on whether it is ethical to charge a rake.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Maybe I should have been more clear.. this game is hosted at a private club. Every single dollar that the game “profits” is re-invested in the game itself, in the form or royal flush jackpot, bad beat jack pot, high hand jack pot, added tournament money , cook-outs, cigars, security, and so fourth. Furthermore, this game is part of a circuit or games in which most of the players play.. all other hosts rake their games in some form, so I’d basically be paying the rake at their games and not charging one at mine. I was asking what type of take structures are common where you guys see them, not what your opinion on whether it is ethical to charge a rake.

Still illegal in most states.... So most everyone is going to keep telling you that. If none of us take rakes, since it's illegal, we have no methods to show you and this is going to be a empty post.

 

[Jambine]

Maybe I should have been more clear.. this game is hosted at a private club. Every single dollar that the game “profits” is re-invested in the game itself, in the form or royal flush jackpot, bad beat jack pot, high hand jack pot, added tournament money , cook-outs, cigars, security, and so fourth. Furthermore, this game is part of a circuit or games in which most of the players play.. all other hosts rake their games in some form, so I’d basically be paying the rake at their games and not charging one at mine. I was asking what type of take structures are common where you guys see them, not what your opinion on whether it is ethical to charge a rake.

Just be really careful with all of that. Everyone and everything involved is at risk here, even the private club (unless they are a licensed card room)

 

[Marhault]

Maybe I should have been more clear.. this game is hosted at a private club. Every single dollar that the game “profits” is re-invested in the game itself, in the form or royal flush jackpot, bad beat jack pot, high hand jack pot, added tournament money , cook-outs, cigars, security, and so fourth. Furthermore, this game is part of a circuit or games in which most of the players play.. all other hosts rake their games in some form, so I’d basically be paying the rake at their games and not charging one at mine. I was asking what type of take structures are common where you guys see them, not what your opinion on whether it is ethical to charge a rake.

Do you use dedicated dealers?

 

[Eloe2000]

I was asking what type of take structures are common where you guys see them, not what your opinion on whether it is ethical to charge a rake.

It's illegal. We are not warning you of ethical concerns, but one of your house or property being raided and seized. We are just trying to impress upon you that while it sounds like a small deal, in the eye of the law it is very serious and you risk a lot. It would be up to you and your lawyers to make that distinction about why you are raking your games and where that money goes. But best not to put yourself in that position.

Charge a separate food & beverage fee not directly associated with buy-ins or game play. That is your answer.

 

[Marhault]

The only thing I would say about the illegality of it. I'm not certain what NC laws are, and I'll be honest I'm not super up to date on the Illinois laws but locally our Eagles lodge and VFW hall host poker games under the premise of "charity poker" I'm not sure how much of the rake goes to charitable endeavors but they get away with it.

They run dedicated dealers and take a rake out of every pot, or every pot over a certain size. One does it one way the other does it the other can't remember which.

 

[Josh Kifer]

It's illegal. We are not warning you of ethical concerns, but one of your house or property being raided and seized. We are just trying to impress upon you that while it sounds like a small deal, in the eye of the law it is very serious and you risk a lot.

Charge a separate food & beverage fee not directly associated with buy-ins or game play. That is your answer.

We had a Rounder house here get caught for a rake. The two people running it got 2 years and the owner lost his house due to renting to them and being aware of what was going on. Rake + poker is asking for prison time. The words should not be spoken together IMO.

Didn't even get any complaints. A wife of a player called in after he lost his paycheck one evening and made one call. Then... KABLAMO!

 

[LeGold]

So... more rake is NOT better?

 

[cheque_raise]

Do you use dedicated dealers?

Dedicated dealer.. dealer only plays when game is short handed

 

[Jambine]

Dedicated dealer.. dealer only plays when game is short handed

That probably makes it even worse for the club. He is acting on their behalf as a prop, or shill, depending if he is paid and/or funded to play.

 

[Coyote]

In Greece it's socially unthinkable and most indecent to ask or accept any money from guests.
However, if someone hosts poker or anything routinely, and makes his home the crew's permanent base, the drinks become BYOB and the cost of food (or even that of a dedicated dealer paid by the hour) is divided by the number of participants.

Under no circumstance can the costs be covered by money from the poker table.
Home poker is anyway illegal here but the Police will not bother if the game is unraked and relatively low stakes (below legal casino's level, i.e. 1/2E)

 

[Jambine]

In Greece it's socially unthinkable and most indecent to ask or accept any money from guests.

I think that is universally accepted. Asking for money from a gest is just wrong

 

[Rhodeman77]

My players want a nice game with dinner, snacks, drinks/booze etc and would rather have a small rake taken out of the pot to cover it than a donation jar or flat fee or some kind of pot luck. My player love to just show and play.

If everyone rotated hosting and provided similar amenities it would all work out even for everyone.

But hosting every game and supplying everything is a decent amount of cost and work. Every game is different. Some groups don’t want anything but the poker so offering more doesn’t make sense.

I know I would feel like a freeloaded if I showed up at someone’s house every week, ate their food and drank their beer and didn’t contribute.

When I am invited to dinner I bring dessert or wine to the host.

I charge a small blind per hand until midnight to covers most of the cost. Most nights I’m lucky if I break even.

I’m definitely not looking to profit from hosting, just offset some cost.

 

[moose]

Where is that thread/who was the member than had his game raided and all his chips siezed?

 

[Jambine]

Where is that thread/who was the member than had his game raided and all his chips siezed?

There have been a few, and they usually take a lot more than just the poker stuff

 

[JustinInMN]

how do you guys rake home games if you do at all? I host a .25/.25 game and i have to rake it to avoid going into my own pocket. I charge a fee of 10% of every buy in, or add on, with everyone buying in for $50. i typically end up with about $80 at the end of the night and spend about $35 to provide drinks, snacks, hotdogs. I was doing beer too, but we were barely breaking even. I decided to buy a kegorator and sell the beer at no profit, and that has actually worked pretty well. Just curious how others were doing it.

Rake puts home games in legal jeopardy in most jurisdictions, so probably not something that should be discussed in a internet forum.

We have a pretty good culture of tipping the host in my group, and I don't go nuts with what I put out. We will split ordering food (pre covid) otherwise it was bring your own snacks.

 

[Eloe2000]

So it looks like all private forms of gambling for money are illegal regardless of rake in NC. However, it is generally understood that authorities view it much more seriously as though you are running an unlicensed gambling operation if the house is profiting (and rakes are very well understand in gambling operations to be the form of profit for the house) by taking a rake as opposed to just participating in a fun game of poker with buddies. I would expect both enforcement and punishment to be wildly different in the two scenarios.

More info:
NC Statute: https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-292.html
State by state guidance: https://pokerdiy.com/help/usa-home-poker-law/#hfaq-post-246912

 

[madforpancakes]

Not much to add that others haven't already said. Rake is bad and makes your game illegal. Charging your players for the snacks/beer is a much better way to go if you are trying to cover expenses. When I used to have a kegerator, I just charged a flat $5 to any player for all you can drink keg beer. If they drink under $5 of beer, it's a win, and if they drink more than $5 in beer they're probably gonna end up donating a lot more in chips to the game haha!