Raffles affecting chip prices?

Lash

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#31
Great explanation , if you notice the Le Noir raffle is still not filled and many more spots to fill, simply because it's overpriced and to much spots
The noir raffle is priced at 3$ a chip i believe. I dont think ive seen them sell for less than that.
 
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#32
$3.66/per? Has anyone publicly sold a set of them for less?
Doesn’t matter what anyone else sold them for - the question was about the PROFIT that was made.

If I’m not mistaken, Larry has consistently been one of the most outspoken about “flippers” - to the point of making a list of “shitty” chippers that he won’t do business with...a list that he feels the need to remind/brag to everyone about.

I don’t care what anyone sells their chips for, or in what format they choose to do it in. You want to make money? Great. You want to give chips to the community? Great. It is what it is.

The boat chip situation made me realize that there are strong cliques and an “upper class” of chippers.

It’s not even about who got into the buy or who didn’t - (admittedly I was angry at first but then realized that maybe I don’t contribute as much as I thought I did) what is bothering me is the hypocrisy of many that did, people that used to bring out the pitchforks at the slightest sign of profiteering. Turns out they didn’t have an issue with the profiteering, but just with who was profiting.
 
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#33
Personally I think there should be at least 1 requirement for a raffle.....a draw date.....and one within reason, not 2 months either. Then it put the pressure on the people to get in and on the seller to get it done. If you attempt to hold 2 raffles in a given amount of time (6 months?) And they are not successful then you get put on a probation period and can't do any more for awhile.
 

Jeff

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#36
Great to see the Chip Donkey contingent back and salty as ever.

Please register your chip basis on PCF Form 1040CB. We’re now assessing capital gains on chip sales from flippers.

The problem isn’t profits, it’s that anyone would sell chips they own at all!

Existential question...Are hoarders as bad as flippers?
 
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ekricket

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#37
Great to see the Chip Donkey contingent back and salty as ever.

Please register your chip basis on PCF Form 1040CB. We’re now assessing capital gains on chip sales from flippers. The problem isn’t profits, it’s that anyone would sell chips they own at all!

Existential question...Are hoarders as bad as flippers?
They are definitely less hypocritical.
 
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#40
I know it's the popular thing to do in these discussions, but please be careful making broad generalizations like these.
And I know it's the popular thing to only quote the portion of a post the person needs to support their opinion and then send a generalization about generalizations (generalinception?!?!?!).

My point was about specific chippers - like the part where I mentioned Larry...another specific would be Links. Larry has always been...abrasive - but he's got lots of chips so he's "cool" and get's away with it. Links is a good dude and does good things - so he had some leeway and defenders. If Rainman had been involved in the GB and flipped the chips for profit he'd have been drawn and quartered.

Again, I don't care what they do with their chips or how much the sell them for - but if you're going to call someone out for their behaviour and then turn around and do it yourself when the margin is high enough, then you are a hypocrite. Continuing to maintain a selected "list" of the "naughty" and "nice" just makes you a really shitty version of Santa...
 

Jeff

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#42
If Rainman had been involved in the GB and flipped the chips for profit he'd have been drawn and quartered.
...
The people who tried to draw and quarter Rainmantrail/MrDonkey are now on his own site. PCF and staff have never condoned thread crapping and always acted (on RMT’s behalf) and modded his classifieds and provided warnings to offenders.
 

pltrgyst

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#48
Honest question...didn’t you make an “insane” profit on the AS tourney chips you sold?
How is that any different than what anybody else has done?
No.

1. An auction is a different beast than a raffle -- bidders are much more aware of what they're doing, and consider it carefully when it runs into real money. Raffles are playing the sucker game, with some people entering because it's pocket change, and some because they're just too dumb too see what's going on -- same principles as state lotteries.

2. I paid over $3/chip for most of my StarChips. What I made on the AS tourneys went into more cash StarChips.

3. I don't consider a price increase of up to 100% "insane". I do consider prices at two to four times the cost of Detroit fracs to be insane and then some.
 
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#49
Raffle for profit, sale for profit, it's all the same business to me.

Like many others, I'm out there hunting out bargain deals for chips that I can turn around and sell to members of the community. Yes, at a profit, but I'm careful to look at current "market" prices, and to offer services over and above just reshipping chips. Otherwise, some chips "in the wild" would never be exposed to the community, and I could never afford to gather what chips I need. Any profit I make just gets driven into my fundraising schemes, because it takes money to make more money before some charities can benefit.

I have considered raffles as a way to enhance this, but I think raffle-fatigue is a real thing and I don't feel like pre-selecting a potentially huge profit margin with risks like a) the raffle never fills up and/or b) garnering a bad reputation here.
 
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#52
Raffles are just gambling. They have no effect on the price of chips. Some enter that truly want he chips, others enter to gamble and re-sell if they get lucky.

If a local charity raffles off a new car, will that affect the price of new cars at the auto dealership? Nope.
 

upNdown

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#54
If a local charity raffles off a new car, will that affect the price of new cars at the auto dealership? Nope.
I’m not sure I disagree with your point, but let’s be careful with analogies like that. People can determine the value of a new car pretty easily - there’s MSRP, there are sales ads, there are websites dedicated to that exact thing - people KNOW what a new car is worth. Chips values can be difficult to pinpoint, and these particular chips are an extreme example of that for several reasons.
 

ChaosRock

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#55
My 2¢ on the subject:

In my opinion, raffles do impact chips prices. It is simple supply and demand. There is X numbers of people willing to buy a certain set outright. Now, all of a sudden, there is one or maybe even more collective entities willing to purchase the same set. So yeah, there is a touch more demand for that product.

Having said that, it is a very complicated mechanism. First, it is impossible to know by how much the prices are being affected, in my opinion, very slightly. Second, because the price is slightly higher, there might be more sellers willing to sell their sets for that higher price, which would probably bring prices down a bit. So on the long run, the effect might be almost insignificant.

Now, I'm personally not a fan of raffles as they just don't strike a cord with me. However, I see absolutely nothing wrong with people running them and with people buying the at all. It's freedom, people! Same thing with people asking for a boatload of money for a set. Just don't buy them. It is that simple.

What really bugs me is people complaining about all this stuff just because they think it changes the way THEY want prices to be. Just ludicrous.
 
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#56
I hardly ever take part in raffles. If I do, I only enter raffles that have an expected value that I see being close to zero or positive.
The obvious exceptions are charity raffles which are a fantastic Idea.
As a "math guy", I just can't get myself play a game with a large negative EV, no matter how much I like the chips.

The raffle the OP is talking about I have at EV= -3.66, a number that tells me to stay clear of this game.

Keep in mind this number is dictated by what I value the set at and may be different for different people.
 
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krafticus

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#57
There is another side to this as well.

Lets say Chipper A wins an auction of an "overpriced" item; we will say a 1000 chip set and the auction brought in $3,000. Chipper A may not really find the breakdown or the chips all that desirable; however, knows that other chippers do like this set. Chipper B knows that Chipper A might sell the set, and could get a decent price. Chipper B offers Chipper A $2,000 for the set. Chipper A paid $20 for a ticket, and figures, hey, free money.

The original seller wins because he sold enough tickets to get his price
Chipper A wins, as he make $1980 on a $20 raffle ticket
Chipper B wins as he gets the set he wants for a more "realistic" price.

It does impact chip prices, but in a better way.

For reference, I won a set of over 1600 chips. it cost me $70 in raffle tickets. I sold a rack for $50. Someone reached out and offered me a price for 1/2 of the set. could I have held out and tried to get "market" price -- sure... but I didn't need to as I am now into this set for $20. I win, he wins, and the original seller got what he was asking for (which, to me, is a win).

Now I have 1/2 of the set, and one of my locals has been inquiring about the set. I offered him a very low price, and he gladly accepted. I made decent money on my raffle, and 2 people got good chips for lower prices. Wins all around.

Are all chippers like this; NO, but I think that you would find many would do the same thing.

I also love my $20 Chanman Poker table as well, but that is a keeper !!

Mark
 

Jeff

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#59
Pontificating about the price someone else is paying for something (including a raffle ticket) is like the guy who pontificates about someone else’s call at a poker table. You may be the smartest guy in the room, but telling someone else what they should do with their own money is just annoying.
 

k9dr

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#60
I won the first raffle I entered for the Iron Bank set. I would have bought that set outright if it had been offered for sale, which it wasn't. I figured I used up my luck binking that raffle and have mostly avoided them since then.

In general, I think raffles are useful for moving large sets that might be beyond the price most people are willing to pay.
 
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