This book + quote are definitely stuck in the 1970s. I wouldn't look to it for much that's relevant in 2022.
Racist/sexist/offensive language at a home game - what would you do? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dmoney
- Start date
Yeah, my point is that it's up to each woman to decide if she prefers 1970s extra respect or inclusion.
We can't have everything.
If by "everything" you mean a fun game without sexist commentary or behavior... then I really have to disagree. We can have everything. We (men specifically), just need to be open to some (small but important) changes at the table.
LeLe
4 of a Kind
There are quite a few posters that I had put on block list because of that, I think they may think it funny to do that but I felt it just bring a bad vibe and negativity if you keep being mean for no reason
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Moxie Mike
Full House
There's also something to be said for knowing your audience. In the case of my game, Ben is the one who started the trash talking and routinely pokes fun at his own ethnicity. This is also the dude who picked me up from the hospital at 2:30 in the morning after I'd been injured in a car accident - and instantly starts calling me 'gimpy' as soon as I climbed into his car.
So trust me, it's fine. As to asking him privately how he really feels, I did that in the beginning.
If I were playing in somebody else's home game, something would have to be pretty freaking egregious for me to speak up. I know people (white guys) who are comfortable using the n-word freely. I avoid these people and I certainly wouldn't invite them to my house to play cards, and it wouldn't happen but if I found myself playing cards in THEIR house, of course I would not try to tell them how they or their guests are allowed to speak in their house.
In my house, if it were directed at somebody, I'd shut it right down. I don't have a lot of rules at my game, but "don't be a dick" is definitely one of the few.
The definition of "sexist" is a totally different discussion.
E.g. IMHO, all feminist discourse is by definition sexist. But we 're getting off-thread.
Yup, I think we have some fundamental disagreements that won't be solved on a PCF home game forum lol.
Legend5555
Full House
From this, I'd just say we should all be careful about what assumptions we make about other people's friends, gaming environments, and what we have and have not done with regards to potential offensive language with our friends.
Agreed (to disagree).
Nailed it. Intent is important.
I 've never met @JeepologyOffroad in person, but I visualise him as a badly sun-burnt fair-skinned (i.e. by now CPC Pink or even Retro Lavender) Anglo Saxon in the New Mexico desert.
I 'd never introduce him to my crew as "our new monkey-ass-faced friend" before I asked him about how he felt about his skin color and sun burns
I 'd never introduce him to my crew as "our new monkey-ass-faced friend" before I asked him about how he felt about his skin color and sun burns
Intent is important for sure, but I would say it is only part of the issue at hand.
Scenario: Home game. 80-90% white male (as many tend to be). Friendly environment, drinks, jokes etc. One guy makes an offhand comment about someone being gay. People laugh. One player (who happens to be gay but has not come out publicly in his home game), who the comment was not directed towards, laughs but doesn't come back to the next game. This was a game that was convenient to him, and he likes most of the players, but it just didn't make him feel comfortable ultimately. The joke was intended (and broadly understood) to be "in good fun" but that interpretation is always being contested by every individual present, depending on their own lived experiences.
Scenario two: Asian player at the game. Lots of friendly banter. Some jokes about his ethnicity, he laughs it off. Everyone seems to be in good spirits. Another player, seeing that the Asian player laughs off these various jokes, assumes that this is appropriate kind of joking to integrate into his other environment (at work, with other friends etc). It doesn't work out so well in the next context.
I guess my PSA: There are soooooo many ways we can make fun of each other, rib each other etc, that don't involve playing into anti-Asian racism or sexist language or anything like that. There is a broader context for all of these jokes out in the wider world. Here in NYC, we have seen a HUGE increase in hate crimes (including several brutal murders) of Asian Americans. We think oh this has no relationship to each other. But we would be wrong. We all recreate behavior and culture. I think we can do better, and model our home games as the kind of places we might want to see out in the broader world (fun, joking, drinking etc.)
I’ve been described many times as the “whitest” hispanic you’ll ever meet. No sunburns for me.I 've never met @JeepologyOffroad in person, but I visualise him as a badly sun-burnt fair-skinned (i.e. by now CPC Pink or even Retro Lavender) Anglo Saxon in the New Mexico desert.
I 'd never introduce him to my crew as "our new monkey-ass-faced friend" before I asked him about how he felt about his skin color and sun burns
I 'm the whitest among Greeks, man! I 'm verging on the Irish
I 've had plenty of teasing about my skin and got told to put on sunscreen even at night, to shield me from moonshine
Legend5555
Full House
I'm Polish, German, Swedish, Irish... I emit light in the dark.I 'm the whitest among Greeks, man! I 'm verging on the Irish
I 've had plenty of teasing about my skin and got told to put on sunscreen even at night, to shield me from moonshine
This can be expanded to just about anything not only race/sex. I don’t disagree with you though. I’m just not a fan of taking it to the extreme as people tend to do these days and it doesn’t sound like that’s what you are describing anyways.
I’ve been offended plenty of times in my life and I fully expect to be offended in the future. Assholes will be assholes. Life is a yin and yang. I suppose I’m mainly speaking within the context of my own game. More of a band of brothers feel to it rather than an open season of new players. And I don’t include any malicious assholes within my band of brothers. So even when there are new players I know it’s never something I’d need to worry about.
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Cute little thread. Nice and sweet.
At last, we had some laughs, after so many days of boredom.
At last, we had some laughs, after so many days of boredom.
Samuel
Straight
Bill Burr has a hilarious bit about subway experiences in his Emotionally Unavailable special (NSFW)
On the flip side, it's really not that funny IRL (involving yet another POS that is way overdue for an attitude adjustment):
https://nypost.com/2022/05/29/person-on-nyc-subway-grabs-womans-hair-shouts-obscenities/
RivieraDanny
Royal Flush
Like using the wrong pronouns and being charged with sexual harassment?? Damn.
If you have a penis you are him. If you have a vagina you’re a her. Period. I hope this isn’t included in this post.
If you have a penis you are him. If you have a vagina you’re a her. Period. I hope this isn’t included in this post.
If it was something really bad and off color, I would say something along the lines of "Hey xxxx, you're better than that". If they continue, I'll contact them privately and ask them to cut the shit or they're not invited back. Abruptly cashing them out or tossing them from the game would create a spectacle that frankly doesn't make anyone look good. All of my group, if not most at worst, has the situational awareness about what's fair game and off limits, but with one exception. A lot of the other guys give shit to another guy that's a friend of theirs that I'm not particularly close with, but am acquainted with when he's not there to defend himself or her, and it does make me uncomfortable when he and his wife are brought up (he's white, she's a Vietnamese immigrant) and jokes are made at their expense.
We're all a bunch of weirdos in my regular game that are always busting each other's balls, but there are some unwritten ground rules. Joking about each other's spouses is really the only thing off limits. A lot of the ball busting does get rauchy to the point that I wouldn't be comfortable with my wife or other wives or girlfriends playing, but that does play into the clientele of my group (old high school friends that have been playing together 15+ years) whom I love to death, but frankly have not grown up completely or left high school mentally.
Frankly, I'd sooner invite the local PCF crew over if I was inviting wives and girlfriends to play as well, as I have way more faith in them behaving and not going down this road as compared to my old high school friend regular crew. Well, as long as they don't talk too much about RHC vs. THC, Paulson vs. BCC, Fournier vs. Desjgn, etc. that would bore the female contingent to tears.
We're all a bunch of weirdos in my regular game that are always busting each other's balls, but there are some unwritten ground rules. Joking about each other's spouses is really the only thing off limits. A lot of the ball busting does get rauchy to the point that I wouldn't be comfortable with my wife or other wives or girlfriends playing, but that does play into the clientele of my group (old high school friends that have been playing together 15+ years) whom I love to death, but frankly have not grown up completely or left high school mentally.
Frankly, I'd sooner invite the local PCF crew over if I was inviting wives and girlfriends to play as well, as I have way more faith in them behaving and not going down this road as compared to my old high school friend regular crew. Well, as long as they don't talk too much about RHC vs. THC, Paulson vs. BCC, Fournier vs. Desjgn, etc. that would bore the female contingent to tears.
That's it, I'm wearing my bright pink shirt next Friday to JIJ and I'll make sure to wear it if I can make an appearance in September.
NoNamePokerGuy
Two Pair
It depends on the context. Is it a poor taste joke, or was it intended to be hateful. If it is the later GTFO or leave yourself. There is no middle ground.
Samuel
Straight
Bolded for emphasis (I would have posted the same thing)! (and if you DON'T know your audience, DON'T Go There - pretty simple!)
That^ too!
LMAO! I know a few people who are That Dense!
SeanGecko
4 of a Kind
That's not understanding the term feminism.
Jimulacrum
Full House
If I'm host and there's someone in the game who has engaged in truly mean-spirited attacks on anyone, he's probably getting culled from the list, whether race or sex was part of the attack. If I'm not the host, but I'm comfortable in the game, I'll probably talk to the host and try to make this happen.
Whether it's directed at me is irrelevant, though if it is directed at me, I may respond with some caustic words of my own in the moment. But that's more reaction than approach.
Beyond clearly mean-spirited attacks, there's no real blanket answer here. It depends on what was said, the context of the moment, and what was intended by it—in other words, it depends on the totality of the circumstances, just like any situation. People crack jokes and make remarks about everything under the sun. It's not my job to police it all unless it's disruptive to the game.
That said, I'm not above humiliating someone over this kind of thing. I come from a family where we learn how to talk back effectively very young. If you make a dumb, shitty joke about [pick a topic] around me, I'm probably going to make your stupidity the butt of my jokes for the rest of the night.
Whether it's directed at me is irrelevant, though if it is directed at me, I may respond with some caustic words of my own in the moment. But that's more reaction than approach.
Beyond clearly mean-spirited attacks, there's no real blanket answer here. It depends on what was said, the context of the moment, and what was intended by it—in other words, it depends on the totality of the circumstances, just like any situation. People crack jokes and make remarks about everything under the sun. It's not my job to police it all unless it's disruptive to the game.
That said, I'm not above humiliating someone over this kind of thing. I come from a family where we learn how to talk back effectively very young. If you make a dumb, shitty joke about [pick a topic] around me, I'm probably going to make your stupidity the butt of my jokes for the rest of the night.
OP
OP
dmoney
Full House
I've become more conscious of racist/sexist/offensive language in one of the games I have played in a handful of times, and it's almost entirely related to politics. I live in a very conservative area and a handful of times conversations have turned to hot-button social/political issues - for example an NBA game was on and some comments were made about the NBA's support for Black Lives Matter, or a Bud Light commercial aired amid their recent "controversy." The comments afterwards skew towards Trump by name, and generally towards the "culture war" type issues. While most comments have been stupid, but not egregiously offensive, a small number have come close to being an issue.
Long story short, I think my best course of action is that if/when the line gets crossed, I'll probably need to announce that my seat is open and rack up. I'd evaluate whether or not I returned to the game based on what happens after that. I have very little interest in being outnumbered and trying to persuade folks at a poker table as to why their remarks are offensive generally, or to me personally.
Long story short, I think my best course of action is that if/when the line gets crossed, I'll probably need to announce that my seat is open and rack up. I'd evaluate whether or not I returned to the game based on what happens after that. I have very little interest in being outnumbered and trying to persuade folks at a poker table as to why their remarks are offensive generally, or to me personally.
Jimulacrum
Full House
Just remembered a situation I ran into at a poker table on a cruise ship about 7 years ago.
I'm at the table playing with a group that has dwindled to 4- or 5-handed, all from various places. The only relevant guy at the table is Terrance, whose name I haven't changed because fuck him. Terrance is from England and looks to be in his 60s or 70s. He's one of the worst poker players I've ever sat with, and he got lucky recently and is sitting behind about $500; my mind is on relieving him of all of it.
A group of 4 (I think) men from India who are there as part of a wedding party approach the table and ask to join. They don't need our permission, of course; they're just being polite. We'd have a nice full table with these guys, and the game could probably go on all night.
Terrance immediately chimes in. He tells them it's fine if they play, but he doesn't want them "taking over the whole place." When asked what he means by that, he goes completely mask-off, launching a blatantly racist tirade about how they know what he means, and it's about "you people" this and that, including taking over everything* and a bunch of other ignorant nonsense I don't remember. His tone was standoffish, if not outright hostile. Dude clearly does not like Indian people.
The rest of us sat there with our mouths hanging open. I wish I could say I spoke up and put this dude in his place, but I was too shocked. The Indian guys walked away, and I caught up with them later in a club and apologized for not saying something in the moment. They gave me hugs and offered to buy me a drink. Later on, they reported Terrance to the cruise staff, and I happily backed them up.
Terrance never played again, but the Indian guys did come to the table on a later night. While they were all seated at the table, Terrance showed up and went around whispering in the ears of the other people he'd played with previously. He basically accused them all (meaning all Indian people, not just these guys) of being cheats and told us to be careful because we don't know what they're talking about "when they're speaking that Punjabi" (pronounced with the "jab" part like the word for a punch).
I don't ultimately know what happened, but this series of events has been burned into my brain ever since. So bizarre. I believe Terrance was asked by the staff not to play at the poker table, based on the fact that he never played again. I hope he was perma-banned from the whole cruise line too.
I kinda hope he tumbled down the gangway on his way off the ship too. And had to be helped up by an Indian person.
I'm at the table playing with a group that has dwindled to 4- or 5-handed, all from various places. The only relevant guy at the table is Terrance, whose name I haven't changed because fuck him
. Terrance is from England and looks to be in his 60s or 70s. He's one of the worst poker players I've ever sat with, and he got lucky recently and is sitting behind about $500; my mind is on relieving him of all of it.A group of 4 (I think) men from India who are there as part of a wedding party approach the table and ask to join. They don't need our permission, of course; they're just being polite. We'd have a nice full table with these guys, and the game could probably go on all night.
Terrance immediately chimes in. He tells them it's fine if they play, but he doesn't want them "taking over the whole place." When asked what he means by that, he goes completely mask-off, launching a blatantly racist tirade about how they know what he means, and it's about "you people" this and that, including taking over everything* and a bunch of other ignorant nonsense I don't remember. His tone was standoffish, if not outright hostile. Dude clearly does not like Indian people.
The rest of us sat there with our mouths hanging open. I wish I could say I spoke up and put this dude in his place, but I was too shocked. The Indian guys walked away, and I caught up with them later in a club and apologized for not saying something in the moment. They gave me hugs and offered to buy me a drink. Later on, they reported Terrance to the cruise staff, and I happily backed them up.
Terrance never played again, but the Indian guys did come to the table on a later night. While they were all seated at the table, Terrance showed up and went around whispering in the ears of the other people he'd played with previously. He basically accused them all (meaning all Indian people, not just these guys) of being cheats and told us to be careful because we don't know what they're talking about "when they're speaking that Punjabi" (pronounced with the "jab" part like the word for a punch).
I don't ultimately know what happened, but this series of events has been burned into my brain ever since. So bizarre. I believe Terrance was asked by the staff not to play at the poker table, based on the fact that he never played again. I hope he was perma-banned from the whole cruise line too.
I kinda hope he tumbled down the gangway on his way off the ship too. And had to be helped up by an Indian person.
I am still in awe at the audacity of an Englishman saying this to someone from India. Or to anyone, really.
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Natskule
3 of a Kind
All depends on the group. As long as everyone is comfortable enough to keep playing and will come back, I don't care. When it starts making folks uncomfortable and they aren't having fun and won't come back, then I'll step in.
Usually an idiot that is a poor loser and takes a perceived bad beat.
Usually an idiot that is a poor loser and takes a perceived bad beat.
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