Cash Game Questions on a Large Chip Set for High Stakes Cash Game & Tournament Game (1 Viewer)

[Bacon Dad]

Hey everybody. I swallowed the red pill.

I planned for the worst case scenario and now have a set of 1500 chips that can accommodate a table of 10 people in a $2/$5 game at 200bb. The set handles a maximum buy-in of $1000 per person with five rebuys at $1000 max for each person.

Its a lot of chips, I know! Maybe I should have started this question with "Hi. My name is AL and I've been a chipper for the past 10 months..." I'm not a frugal person about stuff I love.

The breakdown of my set is as follows:

400 x $1
400 x $5
300 x $25
300 x $100
100 x $500
-------------------
1500 Total Chips
$89,900 Total Bank

I used a spreadsheet to help map out a $2/$5 cash game.

1. So do you typically use the same starting stack when you are only sitting 6 or 8 people and not 10? I realize I can do an Initial Buy-In + 1 Rebuy with this starting stack before changing it with only 6 people. But what do you guys typically do with the stacks when the attendance varies?
2. I want to start hosting tournaments but I am not sure how this chip set will do. I am not as versed in tournament setups, so any input on stacks that my chip set can accommodate would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much in advance.

 

[LeLe]

For $2/5 game, I will not be giving more than 10 $1 per person since $1 is realistically going only to be used for tipping dealer and the SB once per orbit.

You are going to get a lot of ranting from the table about why you giving me all this $1 chip denominations, save the $1 when you are playing 1/1 or 1/2 which 1 barrel per person is already more than good enough.

I will take the excess $1 & $5 and use the follow for $2/5 game

100 x $1
200 x $5
300 x $25
300 x $100
100 x $500

Starting stack @ 200BB just give out

10 x $1
18 x $5
20 x $25
4 x $100

For reusing the cash chip again for the Tourney, you are going to get a lot of respond about warning not to do so for chip security but it's up to you if you want to risk someone smuggling a few $100 / $500 from Tourney to Cash game

You can do T5 2000 starting stack for Tourney with you chip breakdown

$5/$25/$100/$500 10/10/7/2 or 20/20/9/1 both work. Rebuy can be done in $100 & $500

 

[Bacon Dad]

For $2/5 game, I will not be giving more than 10 $1 per person since $1 is realistically going only to be used for tipping dealer and the SB once per orbit.

You are going to get a lot of ranting from the table about why you giving me all this $1 chip denominations, save the $1 when you are playing 1/1 or 1/2 which 1 barrel per person is already more than good enough.

I will take the excess $1 & $5 and use the follow for $2/5 game

100 x $1
200 x $5
300 x $25
300 x $100
100 x $500

Starting stack @ 200BB just give out

10 x $1
18 x $5
20 x $25
4 x $100

Thanks for the reply. I've read a lot of your responses on different items and appreciate your viewpoint.

They guys I play with like a lot of chips on the table. They are a splashy bunch. My thoughts on the 30 x $1 was that it gets them through 15 orbits. Is that the wrong way to think about that?

I was hoping I could work my chip set into two tables of 6 people each. One table for small/mid stakes and one for high stakes. Thoughts?

Do you think I was being too conservative thinking 1 buy-in + 5 rebuys for 10 people? What is the norm for higher stakes like this? I can really only see my guys doing one buy-in + 15 rebuys max (not the 50 I initially planned for). Either way, I love all my chips.

 

[grandmeme]

In the 2/5 games that I play, we don't give out $1 even in the starting stack - the dealer will have 100 $1 in his chip rack and just gives change. I hate the $1 in 2/5 and would cap it at 100 unless you have other uses for them, in fact I would rather play 5/5.

I know a lot of people who loves the big stacks, so I would say that based on your game you can keep the 400 x $5 if your group just loves MORE CHIPS!!!!

For rebuys keep it at high denominations, in my experience it keeps the game running easily (e.g. with match the stack games you can just hand them a few $100 or $500 and they can make change themselves, especially if someone is just hoarding all the $5)

As @LeLe mentioned, you can do a T5 with the same breakdowns but I don't recommend doing it unless you have really great security/rules which keeps everyone in check, or not paying anyone out until all the chips are accounted for (which is also iffy if people leave early or bust out)

 

[Bacon Dad]

In the 2/5 games that I play, we don't give out $1 even in the starting stack - the dealer will have 100 $1 in his chip rack and just gives change. I hate the $1 in 2/5 and would cap it at 100 unless you have other uses for them, in fact I would rather play 5/5.

I know a lot of people who loves the big stacks, so I would say that based on your game you can keep the 400 x $5 if your group just loves MORE CHIPS!!!!

For rebuys keep it at high denominations, in my experience it keeps the game running easily (e.g. with match the stack games you can just hand them a few $100 or $500 and they can make change themselves, especially if someone is just hoarding all the $5)

As @LeLe mentioned, you can do a T5 with the same breakdowns but I don't recommend doing it unless you have really great security/rules which keeps everyone in check, or not paying anyone out until all the chips are accounted for (which is also iffy if people leave early or bust out)

Good suggestion on the $5/$5 game and the dealer holds the $1 chips to give change. It is more for the dealer to do and track. But 5/5 would solve that real quick! I like it!

Would the security issue still exist if we put a week between cash games and tournament games (i.e. cash on wk.1 and tourn on wk.3 of every month). We typically meet once a month but would probably do twice a month when we start tournament play.

 

[grandmeme]

Good suggestion on the $5/$5 game and the dealer holds the $1 chips to give change. It is more for the dealer to do and track. But 5/5 would solve that real quick! I like it!

Would the security issue still exist if we put a week between cash games and tournament games (i.e. cash on wk.1 and tourn on wk.3 of every month). We typically meet once a month but would probably do twice a month when we start tournament play.

Yep 5/5 makes the change issue go away real quick . But make sure that your players can afford it because it is a bigger game, instead of 3x PFR it'd be at least 5x ($15 open vs $25 open).

IMO if you play bigger than 1/3, I really like having a dedicated dealer (or two). Just have everyone chip in for them and give em $10 each per hour, that's plenty. Not even the amount of one open per hour! And if it's 2 tables of 6max, they're getting paid $60 per hour, and many dealers would probably jump for that price. It really becomes a whole different game - much more relaxing!

The security issue wouldn't be a problem if you do spread it apart in my view (although some folks here would disagree). As long as you keep a good track of where everything is going and you trust your guys (I wouldn't invite anyone sketchy anyway), it shouldn't be a major issue. However, if you're here, might as well get 2 sets of chips - MOAR IS BETTER!

 

[natumes]

Definitely can lighten up the $1s a lot for $2/5. More $5s is better for the big stack/lots of chips, because they are actually useful for betting. When looking at a cash set, you worry less about starting stack breakdowns (people will buy in for different amounts anyways) and more about do you have enough bank to cover expected rebuys (plus some extra just in case) and enough workhorse chips for a smooth game (split between $5 and $25 for 2/5).

At a minimum you shouldn't use the set for cash and tournament on the same night. If you do use it for both, you have to be meticulous about counting chips after tournaments, because if something is missing it now becomes a liability when the cash game runs next. Getting a separate tourney set is recommended, and can be accomplished with a much smaller chip set where you know exactly how many you need of each denom. There are many threads about tournament set breakdowns and blind schedules.

 

[tabletalker7]

They guys I play with like a lot of chips on the table. They are a splashy bunch. My thoughts on the 30 x $1 was that it gets them through 15 orbits. Is that the wrong way to think about that?

Yes. It is making a lot of extra work (preparing stacks, counting out all in bets) for very little results. In a 2/5 game, you can give your players tons of chips to putz around with in 5s, and they will be much more useful to the game as a whole. Even tipping the dealer is not a valid excuse because unless the dealer is using a lock box for their tips they will want to color up the singles they get which will keep singles on the table. Excess singles in a 2/5 game just waste time.

Would the security issue still exist if we put a week between cash games and tournament games (i.e. cash on wk.1 and tourn on wk.3 of every month). We typically meet once a month but would probably do twice a month when we start tournament play.

Time does not invalidate the security issue, but your player list can. This is your home game. You control who plays and who doesn't. You know what the security risk is, so vet your players. Personally, if you are playing 2/5 cash I would think enough money flows through your game to where the separate chips for cash and tournaments would not be a problem, but hey it's your game you do you.

 

[Bacon Dad]

Thanks for the input on the security issue gents. I guess you can’t be too careful and I’d hate to throw that kind of temptation out there where it is least desired. I’ll look into a different chip set for tournament play. Much appreciated guys!

 

[BGinGA]

The breakdown of my set is as follows:

400 x $1
400 x $5
300 x $25
300 x $100
100 x $500
-------------------
1500 Total Chips

I want to start hosting tournaments but I am not sure how this chip set will do. I am not as versed in tournament setups, so any input on stacks that my chip set can accommodate would be greatly appreciated.

Best advice I can give you is to either:

a) use your cash set for Actual Cash Value tournaments ONLY, or
b) don't use your cash set for tournaments AT ALL. Buy a second dedicated tourney set.

Any other dual-usage of your cash set is asking for potential security issues that could cost you $$$ ‐- it's just not worth the risk.

However, using your specific breakdown for a single- or two-table ACV tournament opens several possibilities, depending upon your desired tournament buy-in amount and how deep you want to play. You have sufficient chips for:

a) T1-base events with minimum 15/12/5+ stacks (tourney buy-ins of $200-$600) using starting 1/2 blinds (100-300 BBs). (add 8x$25 + 2x$100 for $600 stacks)

b) T5-base events with minimum 15/13/6+ stacks (tourney buy-ins of $1000-$3000) using starting 5/10 blinds (100-300 starting BBs). (add 5x$100 + 3x$500 for $3000 stacks)

c) T25-base (single-table) events with 12/12/7+ or 20/20/9 stacks (tourney buy-ins of $5000-$7000) using starting 25/50 blinds (100-140 starting BBs).

Personally, the smallest ACV tourney buy-in amount I'd offer with your set is $400, using the T1-base option (200BB to start). If you want a smaller tourney buy-in, you need to either purchase 25c chips or a separate tourney set.

 

[Bacon Dad]

When looking at a cash set, you worry less about starting stack breakdowns (people will buy in for different amounts anyways) and more about do you have enough bank to cover expected rebuys (plus some extra just in case) and enough workhorse chips for a smooth game (split between $5 and $25 for 2/5).

Thanks for stating this like this. Makes perfect sense.

 

[BGinGA]

Thanks for the input on the security issue gents. I guess you can’t be too careful and I’d hate to throw that kind of temptation out there where it is least desired. I’ll look into a different chip set for tournament play. Much appreciated guys!

It's not just about temptation or vetting players; security risks can also arise when chips go missing by accident (dropped on the floor, hidden under the rail, etc.).

Somebody accidentally drops a $100 chip on the floor during a tournament (typically not worth much in that setting), somebody else finds it later during the cash game (thinking THEY dropped it), and now your game bank is short $100 at the end of the night and somebody gets stiffed. Just not worth it.

400 chips can easily cover a single-table tourney.

 

[Bacon Dad]

Best advice I can give you is to either:

a) use your cash set for Actual Cash Value tournaments ONLY, or
b) don't use your cash set for tournaments AT ALL. Buy a second dedicated tourney set.

Any other dual-usage of your cash set is asking for potential security issues that could cost you $$$ ‐- it's just not worth the risk.

However, using your specific breakdown for a single- or two-table ACV tournament opens several possibilities, depending upon your desired tournament buy-in amount and how deep you want to play. You have sufficient chips for:

a) T1-base events with minimum 15/12/5+ stacks (tourney buy-ins of $200-$600) using starting 1/2 blinds (100-300 BBs). (add 8x$25 + 2x$100 for $600 stacks)

b) T5-base events with minimum 15/13/6+ stacks (tourney buy-ins of $1000-$3000) using starting 5/10 blinds (100-300 starting BBs). (add 5x$100 + 3x$500 for $3000 stacks)

c) T25-base (single-table) events with 12/12/7+ or 20/20/9 stacks (tourney buy-ins of $5000-$7000) using starting 25/50 blinds (100-140 starting BBs).

Personally, the smallest ACV tourney buy-in amount I'd offer with your set is $400, using the T1-base option (200BB to start). If you want a smaller tourney buy-in, you need to either purchase 25c chips or a separate tourney set.

Thank you for the advice on tournament suggestions and more importantly on the security risks. I have a lot more research to do before pulling the trigger on a tournament chip set. I want to fully understand it before hosting one. Thanks again.

 

[Bacon Dad]

It's not just about temptation or vetting players; security risks can also arise when chips go missing by accident (dropped on the floor, hidden under the rail, etc.).

Somebody accidentally drops a $100 chip on the floor during a tournament (typically not worth much in that setting), somebody else finds it later during the cash game (thinking THEY dropped it), and now your game bank is short $100 at the end of the night and somebody gets stiffed. Just not worth it.

400 chips can easily cover a single-table tourney.

Missing chips never crossed my mind because it had never happened. Yet…. Good perspective. Thanks.

 

[SendThatStack]

Keep it 2/5
Minimize the $1s
More $5s
Cash and mtt sets must be separate

 

[JustinInMN]

The breakdown of my set is as follows:

400 x $1
400 x $5
300 x $25
300 x $100
100 x $500
-------------------
1500 Total Chips
$89,900 Total Bank

In the 2/5 games that I play, we don't give out $1 even in the starting stack - the dealer will have 100 $1 in his chip rack and just gives change. I hate the $1 in 2/5 and would cap it at 100 unless you have other uses for them, in fact I would rather play 5/5.

Count me a +1 for this is probably too many singles, unless your game has rake/dealer tips. I think you may also be heavy on fives here, to be honest, unless fives get used in a rake. I suppose the extra fives would give you a little downward flexibility to 1-2 and 1-3 stakes. I think twenty-fives are probably more useful at this stake and if you grow to 5-10. I might suggest the following

Cash Set (1400 chips):
200/400/400/300/100 of 1/5/25/100/500 bank of 92,200, over 9200 per player.

Tournament set (400 Chips):

150/50/110/60/30 of T100/500/1K/5K/25K for a 10 player setup with T30K starting stacks of 15/5/11/3, and 30 additional rebuy stacks with 1*5K and 1*25K.

Now 1800 total chips in two different set.s