Tourney Questions about tournament structure!

Chipfiend

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My family and I have always used dice chips when hosting a home tournament. Over ten plus years of poker games, the denominations have been as follows:

White: 5
Red: 10
Green: 25
Blue: 50
Black: 100

We have Always done blinds like so:
10/20 < 20/40 < 30/60 < 40/80 < 50/100 < 100/200 < 200/400

I understand that these colors and numbers are not typical (white is usually 1 and red is usually 5, there’s no 50, etc) especially for a tournament.
The blinds are also abnormal from what I’m seeing on this forum.

While this structure is familiar to me and works quite well, my question is about using a set of chips with 25 as the lowest denomination. I’d love to snag a tournament set with chips with values of 25, 100, 500, 1000, 5000, but I have no idea what starting stacks would look like or How blinds would work. I have read some threads about tournament structure but it’s all a bit confusing and different from what I’m used to.

Also, wouldn’t having two chips like 1000 and 5000 lead to having to make a lot of change? Similarly 100 jumps to 500?
Please inform a new chipper
 

andy699669

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My family and I have always used dice chips when hosting a home tournament. Over ten plus years of poker games, the denominations have been as follows:

White: 5
Red: 10
Green: 25
Blue: 50
Black: 100

We have Always done blinds like so:
10/20 < 20/40 < 30/60 < 40/80 < 50/100 < 100/200 < 200/400

I understand that these colors and numbers are not typical (white is usually 1 and red is usually 5, there’s no 50, etc) especially for a tournament.
The blinds are also abnormal from what I’m seeing on this forum.

While this structure is familiar to me and works quite well, my question is about using a set of chips with 25 as the lowest denomination. I’d love to snag a tournament set with chips with values of 25, 100, 500, 1000, 5000, but I have no idea what starting stacks would look like or How blinds would work. I have read some threads about tournament structure but it’s all a bit confusing and different from what I’m used to.

Also, wouldn’t having two chips like 1000 and 5000 lead to having to make a lot of change? Similarly 100 jumps to 500?
Please inform a new chipper
Set breakdown/config?
 

Beakertwang

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Que pasa Cabrones

My family and I have always used dice chips when hosting a home tournament. Over ten plus years of poker games, the denominations have been as follows:

White: 5
Red: 10
Green: 25
Blue: 50
Black: 100

We have Always done blinds like so:
10/20 < 20/40 < 30/60 < 40/80 < 50/100 < 100/200 < 200/400

I understand that these colors and numbers are not typical (white is usually 1 and red is usually 5, there’s no 50, etc) especially for a tournament.
The blinds are also abnormal from what I’m seeing on this forum.

While this structure is familiar to me and works quite well, my question is about using a set of chips with 25 as the lowest denomination. I’d love to snag a tournament set with chips with values of 25, 100, 500, 1000, 5000, but I have no idea what starting stacks would look like or How blinds would work. I have read some threads about tournament structure but it’s all a bit confusing and different from what I’m used to.

Also, wouldn’t having two chips like 1000 and 5000 lead to having to make a lot of change? Similarly 100 jumps to 500?
Please inform a new chipper
Assuming up to 10 players, typical set up would be as follows:
Starting stacks: T10,0000
T25x12
T100x12
T500x5
T1000x6

A typical set would be:
T25x120
T100x120
T500x60
T1000x80
T5000x20

You should have no real change issues.

There are other possibilities that will work just fine. Also, most will recommend ditching the 10's and 50's in your current setup.
 

Chipfiend

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Assuming up to 10 players, typical set up would be as follows:
Starting stacks: T10,0000
T25x12
T100x12
T500x5
T1000x6

A typical set would be:
T25x120
T100x120
T500x60
T1000x80
T5000x20

You should have no real change issues.

There are other possibilities that will work just fine. Also, most will recommend ditching the 10's and 50's in your current setup.

Thanks for the info! How would blinds work with such a stack?
 

Kid_Eastwood

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Thanks for the info! How would blinds work with such a stack?

Starting stack = 10.000

(25-25)
25-50
25-75
50-100
75-150
100-200
150-300
## color up 25
200-400
300-600
400-800
600-1200
800-1600
1000-2000
1500-3000
## color up 100 and 500
2000-4000
3000-6000
4000-8000
6000-12000
8000-16000
10000-20000
...

10 players with 10.000 and no rebuy shall end around 2000-4000 or 3000-6000 levels.

To estimate the tourney duration, take the entier number of chips in play (ex : 10 players x 10.000 = 100.000), take 5% of this value and it's the big blind of the level where it shall end.

So your variable of adjustment is the starting stack and the level duration.
 
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Mr Winberg

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Thanks for the info! How would blinds work with such a stack?
To answer this properly we need to know how long you want the tournament to run, the nr of players and if you allow rebuys.

Also, since you liked the old structure, please share the above details for that structure and also the level duration.

Just curious: Why did you use the white 5, and how did they get used? You didn't need them for any blinds. :)
 

Chipfiend

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To answer this properly we need to know how long you want the tournament to run, the nr of players and if you allow rebuys.

Also, since you liked the old structure, please share the above details for that structure and also the level duration.

Just curious: Why did you use the white 5, and how did they get used? You didn't need them for any blinds. :)

Number of players has always ranged from 6 to 10 at the most. Blind levels are twenty minutes, and these tournaments usually lasted between 4-6 hours. We’ve never done rebuys.

I was ten years old when my family first started letting me play poker. They are the ones who decided that the chips would be 5, 10, 25, 50, 100.
I think it was done this way so each person had a good amount of chips (we like having ten of each stack except the one hundreds which are six) and so that making change was easier. For example, during the 10/20 blinds people run out of red chips, then they put in a 25 and can take a five back or they can use four white chips. Also, instead of using four chips to make 40 or 80 you can use three (a 5 , 25, and a ten).

Also, since the chips had no denominations it was easier to explain to newcomers that they had ten nickels, ten dimes, ten quarters, ten half dollars, and six dollars. The whole 25, 100, 500, 1000, 5000 breakdown is very new to me.
 

Mr Winberg

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Thanks!

I'll let you know how I do it, but don't focus on the specifics, focus on the reasoning behind it. That way you can adapt the structure yourself.

My go-to structure is this one:

25-50
50-100
75-150
100-200
150-300
## color up 25
200-400
300-600
400-800
600-1200
800-1600
# # color up 100
1000-2000
1500-3000
## color up 500
2000-4000
3000-6000
4000-8000
6000-12000
8000-16000
# # color up 1000
10000-20000
Etc

It's almost like @Kid_Eastwood's but without lopsided levels and with removal of chips as soon as they're not needed. (I'm not saying he's wrong, just different preferences)

Let's say 10 players and you want 5 hours excluding breaks:

10 players means 100k in play. Tournaments usually end no later than with 20 Big Blinds left (and usually a bit earlier for non-turbos). That means around level 2k/4k, i.e. level 13.

For 5 hours of poker (+ breaks) the level time is 300/13=23 minutes rounded.

If you don't ever want to double the blinds you can do what the kid did and add the 25/75 level (the official TDA term for this is the "BG" level). You would then drop the level length to 300/14=21 or 22 minutes.

I personally prefer to not add lopsided levels. Instead I double the stack to 20k and skip the first level and start at 50/100. Voilà, no lopsidiness, no doubling of blinds, still 200bb stacks, and you get to use more higher denom chips :).

The projected end is around [chips in play]/20 = 200k/20 = 10k, so perhaps level 4k/8k. Still level 14 so still 21 or 22 minute levels.

I tend to prefer doubling the first jump, though, because that shortens the early warm-up stage and lengthens the mid and end game where the tournament is really decided, but YMMV.

The projected length is in no way bullet proof, mine usually end with around 30-50 BBs left, rarely around 20, but once only 6.7!!

If the deadline is somewhat hard you can shorten the levels after the projected end and increase the jumps. E.g if 4k/8k is supposed to be the last, have the next 6k/12k only be 15 minutes, then the next jumps to 10k/20 for 10 minutes, then 20k/40k. I call these the "GTFO" levels, and they are a good way to guarantee a deadline without having to shorten the whole tournament too much.

Those are my thoughts, fwiw.
 

Chipfiend

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I actually have 500 paulsons on the way! They were supposed to be delivered yesterday but there was some nonsense with an incorrect address so I’m picking them up from a FedEx store on Monday.

I had already bought some china clays, but they felt cheap compared to what I’ve played with in casinos. I never would have imagined spending so much on poker chips but I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s an investment and the enjoyment I get out of them will be worth it.

I bought 500 mint jack Detroit chips, breakdown as follows:

5- 100
25- 200
100- 150
500- 50

Im hoping to make this work as a tournament set. My main concern is that there will not be enough fives.

Of course, when I get them, I’ll be posting pics here!
 

Beakertwang

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I actually have 500 paulsons on the way! They were supposed to be delivered yesterday but there was some nonsense with an incorrect address so I’m picking them up from a FedEx store on Monday.

I had already bought some china clays, but they felt cheap compared to what I’ve played with in casinos. I never would have imagined spending so much on poker chips but I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s an investment and the enjoyment I get out of them will be worth it.

I bought 500 mint jack Detroit chips, breakdown as follows:

5- 100
25- 200
100- 150
500- 50

Im hoping to make this work as a tournament set. My main concern is that there will not be enough fives.

Of course, when I get them, I’ll be posting pics here!
That will work nicely. Start with stacks of 10/18/10/1 for starting stacks of 2000. Nice pickup!
 

Chipfiend

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Thanks!
Im worried that only having ten 5’s won’t be ideal. Especially if blinds start at 10/20. Will people having to make change get annoying?

That is great to hear win berg. Didn’t realize I could make 500 chips work with two tables. Now I just gotta find a good price on a rack of jack Detroit 5’s if I want to get some bigger games going!
 

Mr Winberg

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Will people having to make change get annoying?
I don't think it will be too bad. 10/10/7/X is pretty standard for T5 based sets.

Didn’t realize I could make 500 chips work with two tables
With 200 fives you can accommodate 20 players for 10/10/7/2, i.e. 2k stacks and a total of 40k in play.

The tournament should end before the 1000/2000 level, so the 100s should survive the whole tournament. 150×T100 + 50×T500 is exactly T40k, but since color-ups usually add to the total you'll be a tad short. Perhaps add a single T5000 chip or plaque?
 
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Mr Winberg

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So if I added 100 5s I’d be good but I’d be a bit short for color ups? How would a single chip help me?
To be clear, you're already good as of the OP. This is for 20 players starting with 2k.

There are different ways of coloring up. The best and easiest way is to round up odd chips, i.e. if I have 9 to 11 of the T25 chips I get 8×25=200=2×T100 chips plus another T100 chip to cover the other 1-3 T25 chips. This adds to the chip count.

If this never ever occured, a 20 player 2k tournament would have 40k in play from start to finish, which is exactly covered by your T100 and T500 chips (which are the only chips that will be in play during the endgame). But in reality this will happen:

When T5s are colored up, there might be 15 players left (probably more, but this simplifies the example). Each player will have 0-4 odd chips. 4 out of five players will have more than one odd chip, meaning 12 will get an extra T25. That's 12×25=300, minus the average value of the odd T5s for these 12 players (each has on average 2.5 T5), i.e. 12×2.5×5=150. We have added 300-150=150 to the total chip count.

Second color up, same simplified math, let's say there's 4 players left. On average 3 will have 1-3 odd T25 chips, and these 3 will have on average 2 odd T25 chips which are exchanged for 1 T100 per player.
The added chip count is:
3×1×100-3×2×25=150.

In this example a total of 300 in chips was added before the tournament was ended, so it's probably sufficient to have an extra T500 chip.

How a single chip can be used during color-ups:
Take the single chip from the bank, make change with the chip leader, use the change to do the color-up, then return what's left to the bank. In the example above, if you had an extra T5000, then 4700 would be returned to the bank. One (or to be safe: >1) extra T500 is probably enough though.

To avoid adding to the extra chip count you could do cross-table chip racing, but that's tedious...
 
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