Private Home Games via Online during Covid-Crisis

[HailedPie]

Hey all,

Any experience out there with this software? https://www.briggsoft.com/pmavens.htm

Seems like it's fairly legit. Kinda steep on the price point but if it means 0 rake and not a huge hassle to setup a host I think it could be a good option for my local friends to continue to play. Any opinions?

 

[Nex]

No mention anywhere whether it supports hardware random number generators or not, so it's pretty safe to say it likely doesn't. Hence pseudo random numbers, which aren't actually random but just appear like it.

In any case, since this is self-hosted software, everyone is forced to trust the host in terms of manipulation-free games. Definitely unfit for anything other than a small group of close friends.

 

[Shaggy]

No opinion of that one... but I recently heard of the pokerrrr 2 app for the same purpose.

 

[superchromix]

No mention anywhere whether it supports hardware random number generators or not, so it's pretty safe to say it likely doesn't. Hence pseudo random numbers, which aren't actually random but just appear like it.

In any case, since this is self-hosted software, everyone is forced to trust the host in terms of manipulation-free games. Definitely unfit for anything other than a small group of close friends.

Curious about how much of a difference pseudo random numbers make vs. hardware-generated random numbers. Software-based random number generators have been around for a long time and are extensively studied. There is a lot of good science out there based on them.

 

[Nex]

Software RNGs are exploitable if you can somehow guess the seed data, in that you can predict which numbers will come next. The seed data usually doesn't have much entropy and sometimes, worse, is simply the time when the RNG is initialized, i.e. much easier to find. You could also record all the open cards that are dealt to do a search in pre-computed number sequences.

Hardware RNGs cannot be exploited because they are based upon measuring physical micro-effects like current fluctuations in an electrical circuit. This is something that cannot be predicted.

Exploiting pseudo RNG is a lot of work but it can be done. And since poker is played for money, someone out there will decide that it's worth their time and effort to exploit such a hole. (inb4 OOC)

 

[Eloe2000]

I have been looking at this the past couple days and we are looking to use PokerStars desktop application for tourneys and Pokerrrr 2 mobile app for cash games.

 

[AnteAndy]

I have been looking at this the past couple days and we are looking to use PokerStars desktop application for tourneys and Pokerrrr 2 mobile app for cash games.

Same here. Wan to user Pokerrr 2 to get a cash game going maybe Friday night with friends since I'm working from home the rest of the week. Hope they're up for it since none ever play online, even play money ones.

 

[Shaggy]

The local tourney group I have played with a few times are transitioning to the pokerrrr 2 app. I read the reviews in the apple store and there seems to be some discussion about weird hands and an unusual number of bad beats. It is not clear to me if this is just the "online is rigged" crowd or if there is actually bad code. I plan to tinker with it regardless. Would love to hear feedback from people who have used it.

 

[GenghisKhan]

Looks like our group has decided to hold off on games. Can you play real money on Pokerrr2? If so I assumer there's rake.
If it's not too bad and it allows us to keep cash poker games going, it might be worth a go.

Edit: Nm, found it. Play money only.
Edit 2: settle up via etransfer...

 

[Shaggy]

The premise afaik is that the app facilitates the game and the necessary record keeping to monitor buy-ins and cash outs such that the money can be handled elsewhere... be it paypal or venmo... etc. The app is effectively a play money poker app with NLH, PLO, and OFC. You can then set up private clubs.

lolz... I just read the rest of your post. You found it.

 

[AnteAndy]

Looks very customizable for either cash or tourneys. Tourneys you can set the min-max buy ins, customized blind structures and level time limits, rebuys, etc.

Only thing is it charges you that gold currency to be able to host these types of games. And charges you extra the more you customize and add onto your cash or tournament game. Cash games charge you a certain amount of gold an hour, with the first 20 minutes free. Tourneys it's a one time payment it seems.

Would also like to know others who hosted games here too and give their take with the randomization of the cards dealt, and use this for electronic transactions.

 

[GenghisKhan]

I just gave Pokerrrr 2 a try with a few of my buddies.

It seems to have potential that with 1 wrong movement instead of raising you folded.

We will try it on a larger scale in the coming days. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

@Kyle

 

[PokerXanadu]

I play for real money on two sites that use briggsoft's pokermaven. The software works well. Like any site, honesty of the site depends on the integrity of the people that host it. Reliability depends on the quality of the hardware. Security depends on the host server software. All real money transactions are handled outside of the site - you deposit by sending money to the host (paypal, venmo, cash app, whatever), who then manually adds that much to your account on the site; withdrawals by asking the host for the amount you want, who then takes it off your account and sends you the money (paypal, venmo, cash app, whatever).

 

[BGinGA]

@kk405

 

[CraigT78]

Here's my honest review.

Pokerrrr2 sucks. The interface is clunky and is 2005 at best. The gestures are crazy old school and allow way to many mistakes. My group hated it. I've played in several games myself, and I'm okay at best with it. Will it work in a pinch, sure. We will not host another game on this app. We had multiple people having issues connecting tonight (Saturday), and several lag issues in game play.

Poker Stars - works great for turbo tournaments - not a replacement for my monthly games. Not enough customization and the lack of knowing who re-bought or added on is a deal breaker for me. We continue to host daily tournaments here because it's easy. EDIT - no solution for cash games - the rake is highway robbery.

Poker Maven - downloaded and set up as an AWS server. Pay to Play - $200 for the software license and $20/mo for AWS. I'm in the trial period now and will report back after my first game. It looks promising.

Poker Bros - downloaded but did not try as it requires in app purchases from the start.

 

[GenghisKhan]

I concur about Pokerrr2. It sucks.
After playing 2 more times on it, I've timed out (folded) trip Aces trying to raise and folded my cards more than once when trying to raise.

 

[HailedPie]

Here's my honest review.

Pokerrrr2 sucks. The interface is clunky and is 2005 at best. The gestures are crazy old school and allow way to many mistakes. My group hated it. I've played in several games myself, and I'm okay at best with it. Will it work in a pinch, sure. We will not host another game on this app. We had multiple people having issues connecting tonight (Saturday), and several lag issues in game play.

Poker Stars - works great for turbo tournaments - not a replacement for my monthly games. Not enough customization and the lack of knowing who re-bought or added on is a deal breaker for me. We continue to host daily tournaments here because it's easy. EDIT - no solution for cash games - the rake is highway robbery.

Poker Maven - downloaded and set up as an AWS server. Pay to Play - $200 for the software license and $20/mo for AWS. I'm in the trial period now and will report back after my first game. It looks promising.

Poker Bros - downloaded but did not try as it requires in app purchases from the start.

Looking forward to hearing how you feel about poker maven. Unfortunately the trial only allows for fixed limit poker, but it's better than having to buy the software before trying it out.

 

[PokerXanadu]

I can get you into one the real money sites that runs on poker mavens if you want to try it real-time as a player. Of course, it might end up costing you more than the $200! (I'm not an affiliate or owner.) You can also create a user and just observe without making a deposit: https://foxpokeronline.com/

 

[CdnBeerLover]

Poker Stars - works great for turbo tournaments - not a replacement for my monthly games. Not enough customization and the lack of knowing who re-bought or added on is a deal breaker for me. We continue to host daily tournaments here because it's easy. EDIT - no solution for cash games - the rake is highway robbery.

Is there a rake for tournments? The site indicates it's a percentage of the buy-in. Just wondering how it works.

 

[CraigT78]

Is there a rake for tournments? The site indicates it's a percentage of the buy-in. Just wondering how it works.

Yes, but for the tournament I don't care about fake chips, I just have everyone send me the entry and the post the prize pool in chat. But what sucks is they don't track who rebought or added on. So you either have to go honor system or have someone keep track.

 

[LotsOfChips]

Poker Maven - downloaded and set up as an AWS server. Pay to Play - $200 for the software license and $20/mo for AWS. I'm in the trial period now and will report back after my first game. It looks promising.

Poker Maven is $149.95 ($150) for the Pro version, according to their website. Are you paying another $50 for the AWS (Amazon Web Services) license, along with the monthly subscription fee?

Also, how does the AWS work - does it take care of the buy-in and payout functions for you, or is it just a place to host the server?

 

[DoubleEagle]

Here's my honest review.

Pokerrrr2 sucks. The interface is clunky and is 2005 at best. The gestures are crazy old school and allow way to many mistakes. My group hated it. I've played in several games myself, and I'm okay at best with it. Will it work in a pinch, sure. We will not host another game on this app. We had multiple people having issues connecting tonight (Saturday), and several lag issues in game play.

Poker Stars - works great for turbo tournaments - not a replacement for my monthly games. Not enough customization and the lack of knowing who re-bought or added on is a deal breaker for me. We continue to host daily tournaments here because it's easy. EDIT - no solution for cash games - the rake is highway robbery.

Poker Maven - downloaded and set up as an AWS server. Pay to Play - $200 for the software license and $20/mo for AWS. I'm in the trial period now and will report back after my first game. It looks promising.

Poker Bros - downloaded but did not try as it requires in app purchases from the start.

I played Big O for a couple hours last night on Pokerrr 2. Not perfect, but playable. Takes a little getting used to since the interface is so different than what we are used to on P* and other online sites that run under Windows or MacOS.

I think it is playable and will use it again.

 

[CraigT78]

So I ran a trial game of Poker mavens and am purchasing the software. This is the holy grail for me. The configuration is insane - ran a cash game tonight, no issues. Will use this to replace my poker stars. I am hosting on AWS. Will post more info after a few games this week.

 

[LotsOfChips]

Just bought a copy of Poker Mavens (Lite) myself tonight, have spent the last 30 minutes setting up a bunch of different cash games and tournaments. Very easy to configure, and you can clone one setup and then modify whatever parameters you want (for example, make a .25/.25 cash game with a $20-$50 buy-in, and then clone it and modify it for .25/.50 with a $40-$200 buy-in). Haven't gotten into setting up rebuys and add ons yet, that's next on the list, but seems pretty straightforward.

There are some security features:
Also seems pretty secure, you can set a password to connect to your site, and then set individual passwords for each different game. You can also issue tokens to players, and restrict games to players holding tokens (for extra security, or for running satellite games, I'm thinking).

One security issue is the lack of https when connecting to the server. Passwords may be vulnerable to hacking, as they are transmitted unencrypted. Not a huge issue, as there is no cash that can be stolen, but it is a bit of a flaw.

You can set up as many games as you want, but with the Lite version you can only run one game/one table of cash and one game/one table of tournament (together) at a time. Once I get a few games behind me, I'll think about upgrading to Pro, which allows unlimited games and unlimited tables, depending on player acceptance.

(Edited to reflect lack of https encryption)

 

[CraigT78]

Just bought a copy of Poker Mavens (Lite) myself tonight, have spent the last 30 minutes setting up a bunch of different cash games and tournaments. Very easy to configure, and you can clone one setup and then modify whatever parameters you want (for example, make a .25/.25 cash game with a $20-$50 buy-in, and then clone it and modify it for .25/.50 with a $40-$200 buy-in). Haven't gotten into setting up rebuys and add ons yet, that's next on the list, but seeems pretty straightforward.

Also seems pretty secure, you can set a password to connect to your site, and then set individual passwords for each different game. You can also issue tokens to players, and restrict games to players holding tokens (for extra security, or for running satellite games, I'm thinking).

You can set up as many games as you want, but with the Lite version you can only run one game/one table of cash and one game/one table of tournament (together) at a time. Once I get a few games behind me, I'll think about upgrading to Pro, which allows unlimited games and unlimited tables, depending on player acceptance.

Keep in mind - the trial version you can only host limit games.

 

[LotsOfChips]

No mention anywhere whether it supports hardware random number generators or not, so it's pretty safe to say it likely doesn't. Hence pseudo random numbers, which aren't actually random but just appear like it.

In any case, since this is self-hosted software, everyone is forced to trust the host in terms of manipulation-free games. Definitely unfit for anything other than a small group of close friends.

Software RNGs are exploitable if you can somehow guess the seed data, in that you can predict which numbers will come next. The seed data usually doesn't have much entropy and sometimes, worse, is simply the time when the RNG is initialized, i.e. much easier to find. You could also record all the open cards that are dealt to do a search in pre-computed number sequences.

Hardware RNGs cannot be exploited because they are based upon measuring physical micro-effects like current fluctuations in an electrical circuit. This is something that cannot be predicted.

Exploiting pseudo RNG is a lot of work but it can be done. And since poker is played for money, someone out there will decide that it's worth their time and effort to exploit such a hole. (inb4 OOC)

From the Poker Mavens manual:

Poker Mavens uses a cryptographically secure shuffling algorithm for dealing cards. An RC4-based stream cipher seeded with a random 256-bit key is used as the random number generator. The key is produced by hashing a seed pool with the SHA-256 hash algorithm. The seed pool is constructed by sampling the CPU's 1.193 MHz high-performance counter. Those samplings occur each time the operating system communicates an internal message to the Server Module, which can be thousands of times per second and is also affected by interaction with the Game Administrator (mouse movements, key presses, etc.)

So it looks like a hardware based system. As far as the host manipulating things, I suppose that is possible, if they were able to reverse engineer the code (not a really simple thing, but possible). I would be more worried about collusion between players (as easy as using a phone).

 

[grantc54]

Does anyone know what the bandwidth requirements of Pokermavens is? I have several servers from my office/server room shutdown that I loaded up with RAM and drives we had sitting around.

Any serious legality issues? I expect if it was kept private there wouldn't be any issues. I'd wager low level gambling is going to be low on the RCMPs radar at the moment.

 

[LotsOfChips]

Keep in mind - the trial version you can only host limit games.

Yup. The Lite and Pro versions allow other types (NL, PL, Omaha, Razz, Stud, etc. No Draw or Pineapple, unfortunately).

 

[CraigT78]

Does anyone know what the bandwidth requirements of Pokermavens is? I have several servers from my office/server room shutdown that I loaded up with RAM and drives we had sitting around.

Any serious legality issues? I expect if it was kept private there wouldn't be any issues. I'd wager low level gambling is going to be low on the RCMPs radar at the moment.

I'm hosting on a bare bones AWS server and had no issues tonight.