Pricing custom tables: anyone regret not getting a raised rail, lighting or cutout?

manamongkids

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No, rarely. Of course on occasion folks have bumped into a cart, but I've never had a spill from a knocked over cart (that I can recall).

I'm not opposed to slide under cupholders, but these tend to trash a table's innerds... Sure they're ok if people use them correctly, but most people I've seen use them, tend to force them straight into place, shoving them under the rail. This can rip at the vinyl at staple points. Over time this can lead to these rips becoming visible, or big enough that they release some of the tension on the rail material. Having the rail loose enough can prevent the need to force them into place, but then this opens up the issue of cards sliding under the rail, lol... Why is this damn cupholder argument so complicated, ha!



Wow, what carts are you using? AND more importantly, how much hard liquor are you serving, lol... :)

A long time ago, I had a few regulars get so drunk, one broke one of my older chairs, and another broke a glass. In every single story of stupidness, douchebaggery or drama I've ever seen at one of my games or any other game I've attended, hard liquor was ALWAYS involved. It's hard to limit or restrict the consumption of hard liquor at a game, but I've done well to discourage the regs who get plowed. A casual convo reminding them that everytime they play cards and drink X booze, they break chairs, glasses, and they lose big $. These regs have self regulated, stopped drinking so hard, and have admitted to me after that it's helped their fun factor when playing at my game. It's also helped improve the enjoyment factor of all the players. Now, don't get me wrong, it's not atypical for a player to tie one on from time to time, but I think it's pretty tame, and we've had very little negative drama.
just standard tv trays, just like yours, but no cupholders. not that the cupholders would make a difference as these tables were completely knocked over


liquor/booze - I have an open liquor cabinet and beer selection for all guests. since we have a dealer, I ask a $1 donation for each drink they take - works out pretty well
 

BGinGA

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Why is this damn cupholder argument so complicated, ha!
These are never in the way, take up zero table room, and don't mess up the rail. Just add a gyroscope so they remain level even when you bend over, and viola! - the perfect solution (complete with light, so no rail lighting needed):



Or you could just have one of these circling the table all night, definitely my preferred solution:
mobile human drink carts


Now that's a beer angel....
 

GenghisKhan

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Thanks for your input guys. This is great stuff. Updating thanks to your feedback.

No dealer cutout
No lighting
No under table chip tray
No cupholders
Raised rail: undecided
(If I go with it, will only be a slight raise)

We had our regular tourney last night and asked a few guys about it. They agreed it made it harder to check/handle your cards and they prefer not raised. (Our reference table is raised a lot)

For the legs I always liked the X style too, so starting to lean towards that vs pedestals.

Now that I'm taking off all the more difficult "bling", I might even consider building it myself with help. One of my regulars teaches carpentry/cabinet making at school. He has free reign to use all tools/facilities on weekends and has built a table there before.
 
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Trihonda

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Now that I'm taking off all the more difficult "bling", I might even consider building it myself with help. One of my regulars teaches carpentry/cabinet making at school. He has free reign to use all tools/facilities on weekends and has built a table there before.
Easy!

The deco nails are super simple. Super cheap. I think it was under $10 to get enough for my entire table. Order a bunch.

Go visit IKEA. Snag some of their paper measuring tape strips... You take the strips and tape them to the exposed edge of your table, then mark (on the paper) a highlighter every 1-1/2". Then take a super small drill bit at make a pilot hole at every highlighted mark on the paper. Then you can enlist on of your kids to gently tap in the deco nails...

I used this technique on raised lighter rail tables, and standard full felt tables. I actually created a jig out of some angle brackets.

IMG_0590.JPG


IMG_0591.JPG
 

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Thanks for your input guys. This is great stuff. Updating thanks to your feedback.

No dealer cutout
No lighting
No under table chip tray
No cupholders
Raised rail: undecided
(If I go with it, will only be a slight raise)

We had our regular tourney last night and asked a few guys about it. They agreed it made it harder to check/handle your cards and they prefer not raised. (Our reference table is raised a lot)

For the legs I always liked the X style too, so starting to lean towards that vs pedestals.

Now that I'm taking off all the more difficult "bling", I might even consider building it myself with help. One of my regulars teaches carpentry/cabinet making at school. He has free reign to use all tools/facilities on weekends and has built a table there before.
No brainer with this info. Built 2 tables for the price you were going to spend on one and you will still have leftover cash.
 

Raf

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I was on the fence for a long time like you. I'll share my thoughts on deciding my final approach. Let me be clear that I respect everyone's views on their preferences and that my thoughts in no way imply anything toward others' opinions/preferences.



Raised rail: Aesthetically pleasing, looks more like a feature table. I went with 1.25" in height. Allows for a rack of 20 chips to sit just shy of flush to the height of the rail....pushing the stacks along the raised rail wall, IMO, gives stability to your stacks. Big stacks just looks good to me so the raised rail better supports monster stacks as they won't fall off the edge of the table like they would on a regular rail. Speaking of falling off the edge of the table, that raised rail wall also blocks the ever seldom over-pitched cards from gliding off the table....so tally another for the raised rail vs regular rail.




Lighted rail: I didn't go with one... Not cause I don't like it or didn't want it, but the question of form over function came into consideration... the LEDs look very cool...I just didn't have enough justification for it. My garage has plenty of lighting where it nullifies the necessity of light output from the in-rail LEDs. Then having to run a cable/extension cord, etc....meh...I can do without. Metal or vinyl covered diffuser is a must if opting for lighted.





Cup-holders: I went with in-rail for aesthetics. The "bling" they add along with their function was a good combination for me. Sure they're restrictive if I have a 10th player+dealer Vs 9 cup holders and make seating positions a lil odd if not having a cup holder right in front of you.... but not all of my players drink and even if they do and don't have a cup holder right in front for an hour or so hasn't bothered my players and they somehow make arrangements as to whether they get the right or left side cup-holder for their drink. Minor inconvenience... but negligible when 9 handed+dealer, which is the case 95% of the time. In your case, this wouldn't be an issue for you as you'd have a 10 player table + dealer. Cup-holder positions in-rail shouldn't really be a concern IMO.

Oh and one huge recommendation...if your players mostly drink sodas or beer....go with standard cup-holders. The fit is much more snug and restricts tip overs from cans and beer bottles. My round table has jumbo cup holders.... Never again. Of course then the question begs... What about larger bottles or cups where only jumbo can accommodate? Well...that is an issue, but one that is rare...95% of the drinks are cans or regular beer bottles...meaning 95% of tip-overs/ spills would come from the drink container most used, cans & beer bottles, so those take precedence. Standard cup-holders house the cans/ bottles very well to avoid tip-overs/spills. Drink carts are out of the question as I regularly get 24-32 players so I try to maximize space to accommodate that playing field and you guessed it, tables & chairs (thus players) >>>>> drink carts. No room for them.

Dealer cut-out: My question was this, which is what it boiled down to for me.... "Rotating dealer?" If yes, then why go oval? Oval works best with all-time dealer in middle as rotating on an oval makes it a pain for those 4 players on the father edges. A round table suits the rotating dealer set up much better and IMO is the only way to go. I look at it like trying to fit a square peg into a circle. So... If you're rotating dealer, with 10 players...go with a 60" round and ditch the oval. Round tables look just as nice and perhaps (big maybe...Be sure to measure) could even allow you to fit another table in your man cave for even a 2-table tourney. Anyhow...I went oval as my first build since I plan to have an all-time dealer on this particular table, all my others will be/are round. The oval will act as the final/feature table. My set up allows for 4 tables. 1 oval (final/feature table) & 3 round tables.



Pedestals: I like having options and nice Rockler folding legs give the versatility of folding and storing the table out of the way in case you need the room for something, are very sturdy and are visually appealing.


Custom cloth: Hell yes!


All other things you mentioned are preferences that I don't think impact space, comfort or functionality...
 

Trihonda

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I think the round vs oval argument has been fought many times. I love round for small, intimate, cozy games with 8 or less. For 10 people, a round isn't very appropriate. 60" is often thought to be the largest round table for practicality (anything larger, and people can't reach the middle). However, a 60" round table has less room per person than an oval. See the cart below.

If you squeeze 10 people into a 60" round, you only give them 18" each. So, I think the consensus was pick the table/shape that best fits your game. If you think you'll want 10 players, round won't work. If you want 8, and your space allows for it, then go for it.

upload_2017-2-24_11-53-7.png
 

Raf

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Nice breakdown Trihonda.... I won't dare argue with you guys cause I know it's been calculated down to a science.

Everyone's had to weigh their options, the pros and cons of each and just from my personal take on it, the not reaching the middle of a round 60" table concern was a wash when considering practically 6 of the edge players in an oval have an incredibly much farther reach to bring in chips....potentially pots having to be passed over through even a third person to finally get the chips to the pot winner. Bringing in mucked cards and pitching cards is another reach issue. With round.... Not so much.

I feel that if going with an oval.... Must either have an all-time dealer (ideal) and if not, then the 4 closest players to the middle would have to share dealing duties. Not saying that's how it must be done, just that's how I'd structure it, personally.

If going with round, space for each player will obviously be tighter but reach is closer. My personal choice is 54" round...8 players. Piece of cake.

Ideal set up for my game is 3 round, 54" tables, 8 players reach....

1 oval with 8 or 9 players, all-time dealer (bonus chips or discounted buy-in for their troubles).

32-33 playing field. Only once have I stretched to full capacity.
 

72o

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I was bored so threw this together awhile ago.

IMG_1685.JPG


Nice breakdown Trihonda.... I won't dare argue with you guys cause I know it's been calculated down to a science.

Everyone's had to weigh their options, the pros and cons of each and just from my personal take on it, the not reaching the middle of a round 60" table concern was a wash when considering practically 6 of the edge players in an oval have an incredibly much farther reach to bring in chips....potentially pots having to be passed over through even a third person to finally get the chips to the pot winner. Bringing in mucked cards and pitching cards is another reach issue. With round.... Not so much.

I feel that if going with an oval.... Must either have an all-time dealer (ideal) and if not, then the 4 closest players to the middle would have to share dealing duties. Not saying that's how it must be done, just that's how I'd structure it, personally.

If going with round, space for each player will obviously be tighter but reach is closer. My personal choice is 54" round...8 players. Piece of cake.

Ideal set up for my game is 3 round, 54" tables, 8 players reach....

1 oval with 8 or 9 players, all-time dealer (bonus chips or discounted buy-in for their troubles).

32-33 playing field. Only once have I stretched to full capacity.
 
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Raf

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Here's one time we squeezed in a 10th person, late arrival on a fifty cent blinds game using a 60" round. Was obviously tight, especially considering 3 of the players are big fellas. We were willing to sit tighter than normal....all agreed the 10th player and his $80 buy-in didn't deserve to keep him waiting. ;):sneaky:

 

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Wow... Very nice 72o! Hope you don't mind me saving that for future reference.
 
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GenghisKhan

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Thanks for the continued comments. I'd just like to clear up...... cutout = diffuser with shapes cut into it.
When I wrote the title....it didn't even dawn on me ppl would think dealer cutout, cause I never had the intention of adding a dealer space. :eek:

I'm still debating buy vs build. But I think in the meantime I'll buy some table legs if some nice ones pop up that are well priced. I can always sell them later if not needed.
There's this set available right now, but don't know how difficult it is adding a longer stiffener between the pedestals.

This table and legs would probably come out to $0 after selling the buffet that comes with it, package deal at a super cheap price of $400 cdn
 

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Trihonda

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Thanks for the continued comments. I'd just like to clear up...... cutout = diffuser with shapes cut into it.
When I wrote the title....it didn't even dawn on me ppl would think dealer cutout, cause I never had the intention of adding a dealer space. :eek:

I'm still debating buy vs build. But I think in the meantime I'll buy some table legs if some nice ones pop up that are well priced. I can always sell them later if not needed.
There's this set available right now, but don't know how difficult it is adding a longer stiffener between the pedestals.

This table and legs would probably come out to $0 after selling the buffet that comes with it, package deal at a super cheap price of $400 cdn
Very cool and beefy looking legs. Probably not long enough for a full oval, but would work with some minor mods. :)
 

Trihonda

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Chip geeks, card geeks, table geeks, felt geeks, breakdown geeks, structure geeks, plaque geeks, now table space geeks... yep, PCF covers it all. :D:D:D
Yup, all about the experience! I like to supply 22" of rail space minimum to my guests. :)

BTW, you forgot about chair geeks...

My chairs are like 22" wide, so I need some extra space! :)
 

T_Chan

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The stiffener in the middle should be removable with just 2 nuts from inside the columns. You could always buy just the poker table top portion with no legs and add on your own legs. The base of a poker table can be a big chunk of the cost.

A tough part might be getting a color match if you intend to replace the stiffener with a longer one, but some experimentation with stains should remedy that.
 

GenghisKhan

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The stiffener in the middle should be removable with just 2 nuts from inside the columns. You could always buy just the poker table top portion with no legs and add on your own legs. The base of a poker table can be a big chunk of the cost.

A tough part might be getting a color match if you intend to replace the stiffener with a longer one, but some experimentation with stains should remedy that.
Thanks Tony,
That's exactly what I was starting to think. If I can find a set of legs for next to nothing, I could buy a built table. My buddy who teaches carpentry & cabinet making wants to help me build one, but doesn't have the time this semester. Next semester starts in September, it's all closed in the summer.

In that case, is there a site where I can buy just a longer stiffener? I have 2 other contacts that I go to when I need something built that's not too difficult. I suppose I could also ask them to make me a longer one. Shouldn't be too hard, it's a rectangle, haha.

OK I'm gonna buy some pedestal legs this weekend, start there. And keep weighing my table options. I so wanted a bling factor, but I agree with everyone about functionality.
A lot of what I originally wanted serves no purpose other than looks, and have downsides. And I've experienced them on my buddy's table. Plus even though I have cupholders now, no one has ever ever used them. At the end of the night you'll find beer cans all over on my bar, bar stools, tv stand, food carts, but not on the table.
 

T_Chan

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I could include a stiffener with the table if you want to buy from me. I would just need the measurements of the bolt locations so that I can insert bolt into the new piece. I don't think I could do the staining on my end though to match yours unless you send me a piece of the legs to color match. You may want to just ask a friend who has some tools to cut you a new piece. Like you said, it's just a rectangle. It should be minimum 1" thick, the edges can be rounded over or not, and then some bolts on each end. I can give you some instructions if needed.

The bling factor is nice, sure they're not very functional but we all like pretty things. As long as they're all done within reason, like the raised rail not being way too tall, they can make a nice poker table look even nicer. Again, nice but not required.

I'm surprised you have people drinking at your games but don't use the cup holders. At my games, and games I run for my rentals, it's hard to find an empty cup holder. By the end of the night there's not any drinks left in them, but during play they're always in use. At rentals the drinks even end up on the felt when everyone is drinking and the occasional well lubricated player has more than 1 drink at a time.
 

bsdunbar1

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I'm surprised you have people drinking at your games but don't use the cup holders. At my games, and games I run for my rentals, it's hard to find an empty cup holder. By the end of the night there's not any drinks left in them, but during play they're always in use. At rentals the drinks even end up on the felt when everyone is drinking and the occasional well lubricated player has more than 1 drink at a time.

I agree. I can't imagine trying to use extra drink tables to have drinks on without them getting spilled. Cup holders are a necessary evil for the "real world". Another thing I like about the cup holders is it gives each player a place to sit. There are always those few players who like to take up a space and a half. At my tables you sit between the cup holders and yours is on the right. lol

The debate goes on.......
 

GenghisKhan

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Last night for a change I noticed the guys did use the cup areas. I won't call them cupholders on current table as they are not cut out with real metal cupholders. Maybe that's why they don't use them. Being 1 inch deep a can will easily tip if bumped. If they were real cupholders they'd use them more. If all we use are cans, I don't need the jumbo ones right?

Now last night's in-game subject turned to custom cloth theme. No idea what I'd like.
But I just remembered I have this giant Caesars Palace chip. And I was thinking once upon a time of buying roman decorations and use that as a theme.
What do you guys think? Other photos are just examples of things I've seen.

Also I'm gonna be doing this wood layout on my walls. Saw it on Chanman's site and something I've wanted to do for a while. Now that I see it done, looks awesome. Wonder if this Joe B is on PCF? Are there Ceasars cash/tourney sets out there? Screenshot_2017-03-04-13-07-02.png Screenshot_2017-03-04-13-07-14.png Screenshot_2017-03-04-13-08-08.png Screenshot_2017-02-25-21-27-49.png
20170304_115512.jpg
 

Daddy N

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Newb question: Can you use slide under cup holders with a raised rail? And has anyone noticed damage to their felt.
 
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72o

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Newb question: Can you use slide under cup holders with a raised rail? And has anyone noticed damage to their felt.
I suppose you can if you don’t bolt the rail down. I have a raised rail but I noticed when the rail wasn’t bolted down that a lot of cards were getting caught under the rail when being dealt so I bolted the shit out of it so that wouldn’t happen. Luckily I have enough room for drink carts.
 

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Interesting. A couple of things.

First, there is some functionality to a lighted rail.for folks with bad eyes, it illuminates the cards when peeking at them. And coolness factor is off the charts when done right. Unless you're doing it right, I'd forgo the lighted rail. And by right, I mean with the aluminum or other diffuser. Something more than the milky white generic diffuser. Theee are ok... but at least look into the sticker apliques that go over these and lend a look similar to chans aluminum cutouts.

The raised rail functions very well. despite me having some similar misgivings that Ben had, I discovered I like mine I lot. However, once I actually used my raised rail table, it feels more natural. I think it actually allows you to fondle chips easier since you're reaching at the same level as the tops of stacks. Hard to describe.

The cutout for Dealer? Meh. Why unless you have a dedicated dealer. And even then, it is limiting. Even if most of my ga,Es had dealers, I'd opt to forgone this feature.

The chip drawer seems more trouble and cost than it'd be worth. I've played a buddy's house and he has one. One person can access it, and it's constantly knocking them in the knees.

The bases can be tricky. You could shop Craigslist for some industrial table bases, and maybe you could find two matching ones to use, for cheap? I've gone this route with some success.

If you're ditching the rail bling, then why not just build yourself. You could do a nice table for around 350(usd), including deco nails. This one was built solidly for around 300-400 (probably less)

View attachment 83128View attachment 83129View attachment 83130
now THAT'S a nice looking table!!! Wish my home game group looked as nice as this one.... ;)

EDIT: Just realized how old this thread is!!!
 

T_Chan

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Newb question: Can you use slide under cup holders with a raised rail? And has anyone noticed damage to their felt.
No not really. As 72o mentioned, it leaves space for cards to slide under if it's a wood trim raised rail. If it's an illuminated raised rail, the definitely no.
 

Daddy N

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@timinater nice table. Same basics as I am planning on. No cup holders, no racetrack, 3/4-1" raised rail. Couple questions. Do you find that cards can slide under the raised rail? Would you skip the inside padding on the rail to make a flat wall to pull chips against?
 

timinater

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Do you find that cards can slide under the raised rail?
  • Nope, it's bolted down and sandwiches the felt/padding. Just need to apply a bit of pressure to slide the tab of the cupholder underneath.
Would you skip the inside padding on the rail to make a flat wall to pull chips against?
  • Never thought about that, but I like the look of the inside padding making the raised rail appear inset and it doesn't appear to cause problems stacking etc.
 
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