Ppff vs goods n services. (1 Viewer)

[casinochipper22]

Recently someone hacked in my PayPal, and it took multiple calls and emails to customer service to get a refund.

It got me thinking about friends n family vs goods and services during this headache. (Sadly I didn't have the depth of a conscious before this happened)

FF is obviously the go to around here because it's saving the 3%. But at the same time, it feels like I'm stealing 3% from someone else.

I'm a vendor. So I decided i should start taking GnS as payment because Im pretty sure it's the right thing to do.

So my questions are: it is the right thing to do, Right? And if so, do I begin to eat the 3% from here on out, or ask buyers to add it in to payment? If buyers do pay, how do I ask or tell buyers to add it in?

Any thoughts? Fellow Vendors? Habitual buyers?

 

[casinochipper22]

@ReallyGoodUsername
@Pinkdan
@Josh Kifer
@BearMetal

Two buyers and two sellers here can weigh in if you have any thoughts.

TIA

 

[Josh Kifer]

@ReallyGoodUsername
@Pinkdan
@Josh Kifer
@BearMetal

Two buyers and two sellers here can weigh in if you have any thoughts.

TIA

So, when I went legit, it kinda is a non issue. I made business accounts that charge the 3%, but it will auto populate my business in the end and I press a button for tax purposes and orders. To me, that's worth the 3%. So then it's a non issue.....

 

[liftapint]

If you're going to pass the cost onto your buyers, build it into the cost. What a freakin' pain to have to add it in at the point of sale.
I personally don't understand giving PP $$ if you don't have to.

 

[FestiveKnight]

I'm sorry, I'm not following some of your logic. Who are you stealing from? How is it stealing? Why does declaring profit on taxes my GnS the "right" thing to do? "Right" morally or financially or legally?

 

[Josh Kifer]

If you're going to pass the cost onto your buyers, build it into the cost. What a freakin' pain to have to add it in at the point of sale.
I personally don't understand giving PP $$ if you don't have to.

I raised my milling price two cents. 2/3 of a dollar. Boom. Evened on up.

 

[casinochipper22]

If you're going to pass the cost onto your buyers, build it into the cost. What a freakin' pain to have to add it in at the point of sale.
I personally don't understand giving PP $$ if you don't have to.

That makes sense. I'll just add to cost. And, giving money to PayPal is bc they are a business providing a service that I'm using.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Recently someone hacked in my PayPal, and it took multiple calls and emails to customer service to get a refund.

It got me thinking about friends n family vs goods and services during this headache. (Sadly I didn't have the depth of a conscious before this happened)

FF is obviously the go to around here because it's saving the 3%. But at the same time, it feels like I'm stealing 3% from someone else.

I'm a vendor. Im going to declare some of these profits on my taxes. So I decided i should start taking GnS as payment because Im pretty sure it's the right thing to do.

So my questions are: it is the right thing to do, Right? And if so, do I begin to eat the 3% from here on out, or ask buyers to add it in to payment? If buyers do pay, how do I ask or tell buyers to add it in?

Any thoughts? Fellow Vendors? Habitual buyers?

You're not stealing a fee from someone else. The buyer is buying without any protection. Past that, that's all you are losing out on. Any profit should be taxed accordingly for state and fed, but the 3% has nothing to do with that.

 

[casinochipper22]

I'm sorry, I'm not following some of your logic. Who are you stealing from? How is it stealing? Why does declaring profit on taxes my GnS the "right" thing to do? "Right" morally or financially or legally?

Paying taxes and paying PayPal are two different things.

I'm stealing from PayPal when I'm selling goods, using their website, and calling it friends and family.

 

[liftapint]

That makes sense. I'll just add to cost. And, giving money to PayPal is bc they are a business providing a service that I'm using.

Yeah, Zelle and Venmo GooglePay and others provide the same service and don't charge anything. So there's that.
But yeah, I get it. Everyone still wants to use Paypal for whatever reason.

 

[casinochipper22]

You're not stealing a fee from someone else. The buyer is buying without any protection. Past that, that's all you are losing out on. Any profit should be taxed accordingly for state and fed, but the 3% has nothing to do with that.

Yes. I kind of through the "paying taxes" in their but it has nothing to do with the real question of PayPal.

 

[casinochipper22]

You're not stealing a fee from someone else. The buyer is buying without any protection. Past that, that's all you are losing out on. Any profit should be taxed accordingly for state and fed, but the 3% has nothing to do with that.

The "stealing from someone" I mentioned was like a someone working PayPal.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Paying taxes and paying PayPal are two different things.

I'm stealing from PayPal when I'm selling goods, using their website, and calling it friends and family.

Well, and that's where if you go business and force the fee, less risk of them holding funds or it being an issue. And the accounting is fantastic.

 

[Josh Kifer]

The "stealing from someone" I mentioned was like a someone working PayPal.

PCF delay as we go thru posts. I get chu

 

[FestiveKnight]

$305 * 3% = $9.15

2.194770928280163e-7%

Don't think you're what's stopping PP employees from getting paid

 

[harrysallout]

Devil’s advocate. If it feels like stealing would anyone be willing to calculate 3% on prior sales that were PPFF and send it to PayPal?

 

[bernielomax]

I recently tried to do a transaction with someone on PCF and PPFF would not let the transaction go through. I even tried it with my wife's account and it still didn't work. We ended up using VENMO and the deal got done.

My wife asked my why PCF was still using Paypal.

She uses VENMO to do all of her facebook market buys, etc and never has any issues.

 

[casinochipper22]

I recently tried to do a transaction with someone on PCF and PPFF would not let the transaction go through. I even tried it with my wife's account and it still didn't work. We ended up using VENMO and the deal got done.

My wife asked my why PCF was still using Paypal.

She uses VENMO to do all of her facebook market buys, etc and never has any issues.

Yeah. I think I'm going to use venmo a lot more.

 

[casinochipper22]

View attachment 996898

View attachment 996899

$305 * 3% = $9.15

2.194770928280163e-7%

Don't think you're what's stopping PP employees from getting paid

Gotta do the right thing. Haha. Better late than never.

 

[bernielomax]

I think that Paypal wants to be goods/services for vendors. They created VENMO for peer to peer transactions.

 

[BearMetal]

As a vendor, @casinochipper22, you can choose to run your business however you see fit. If that means exclusively using PPGS, then so be it; fine by me. My one recommendation is to be upfront about the 3% - either build into the prices you quote, or list the price and then say you only take G&S and it's 3% more.

Edit: You have been a fantastic resource for me, and charging 3% to protect you (and me) is a price I would be fine paying. You rock, Derrick!

 

[bernielomax]

As a vendor, @casinochipper22, you can choose to run your business however you see fit. If that means exclusively using PPGS, then so be it; fine by me. My one recommendation is to be upfront about the 3% - either build into the prices you quote, or list the price and then say you only take G&S and it's 3% more.

Edit: You have been a fantastic resource for me, and charging 3% to protect you (and me) is a price I would be fine paying. You rock, Derrick!

Agreed. I have only made one buy from you, but it's pretty clear you are a fantastic resource for many chippers.

 

[doublebooyah85]

redacted

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I think the bigger issue for me with GNS is they count the transaction as taxable income. I’m not a vendor with record keeping and I don’t sell “services” so any chips I transact will place the burden of proof of my acquisition cost on me or I have to pay 51% marginal tax rate on the sell price. No thanks.

 

[casinochipper22]

Probably should delete this never know who sees it

I just did. But now it's "quoted" in your comment. Lol.

 

[djmarc]

FWIW, I am a member at Reddit Fragrance Swap and they require PP G&S for new sellers.

Sellers usually list an exact G&S price or a link to the calculator-

https://thefeecalculator.com/

The procedure & rules there for buying/selling are pretty tight since it is not a place for discussion, but for transactions.

No thread crapping or bs of any type. Wonder if that would work for poker chips, LOL?!?

https://www.reddit.com/r/fragranceswap/

Also FYI- postal rates are temporarily up as of today.

Starting October 2nd, USPS is temporarily increasing the rates for the 2022 peak holiday season.

You can read the official announcement here-

 

[Schmendr1ck]

PayPal stole $200 from me several years ago, and after a dozen or so unsuccessful attempts to get it back, I gave up.

Fuck them, and don't feel even remotely guilty about using PPFF. I hate every PP transaction I make, but closing my account would shut me out of so much that I'm unwilling to give it up.

If you want to offer buyer protection through G&S, build it into your prices and pay the fees yourself. Hidden charges annoy buyers, and you'll get the bulk of the ill will.

 

[linux]

This came up in a search and I see it's a month old but an interesting conversation. This is sort of an ethics question I think. Should we pay for a service that we're maybe technically avoiding because we lie about dealing with friends and family? Not to say that this group isn't mostly friends and a sort of extended family anyway, but it reminds me of borrowing a Netflix password from a family member or friend. Sort of that fuzzy line of doing the right thing.

In this case, I'm sure that PP is under no illusions about who uses the free ff service and they offered it as a business decision to attract and retain customers and they do have use of your money for a couple days as well. Although 3% is not a lot, neither is shipping or sales tax but they add up in a hobby that I'm finding out can be pricey (though strangely fun to my wife's dismay...). I personally like Zelle as you have the funds in your account within a minute, unlike ppff which I believe can take 5 days, but most sellers here prefer pp, though not all.

Derrick provides a great service with his LV harvests and adding 3% won't change my mind, but I think it's unnecessary.

 

[upNdown]

I have a couple of thoughts.

I remember when PayPal explicitly said that is was a violation to add on the 3% at the end, to pass the cost onto the buyer. I’m not sure if this is still the policy, but it might be worth looking into.

Personally it seems like total amateur hour to ask a buyer to add the 3% on at the end to cover that fee. That fee is a cost of doing business for the vendor. I assume vendors are savvy enough to to build their fees into their prices, so realistically it’s a moot point. But sticking it in the buyer’s face at the end of a transaction is just weak.

Recently I bought a rack of chips with the intent of selling them off as singles / small lots. I wasn’t looking to profit; I just wanted to pass the chips around the community. But I wasn’t looking to get screwed either. So I built an extra buck into the cost of each chip. And thank goodness I did, because one package got lost. And of course it was a package of 10 chips. So I would have been out $30-$40 on that one. I had no problem absorbing the loss myself, because that too is the cost of doing business and I built an extra buck into the price of each chip to cover those potential costs.

I’m no MBA here, but these are just common sense thoughts. If an extra 3% is going to be a problem for you, then your prices aren’t high enough. If you can’t raise your prices and still make sales, there might be something wrong with your business model.