Cash Game Pot Limit or Fixed Limit? If fixed, which structure? (1 Viewer)

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Alright, I have reviewed a number of other threads, and I think I know the answer. But I want to get input from others (especially peeps that have played with us). For those who have not played with us, here is some general information about our game:

• Up until now, we have only played no limit hold em. I recently fell in love with mixed games, so I am looking for the optimal mixed game fixed limit structure.
• NLHE blinds are .50/$1, but the game plays more like a $1/$2 game, and sometime a $3/$5 game. However, the $3/$5 dynamic is ONLY when a hand full of drunk fools show up, and I am not looking to structure a mixed limit game as a drunkfest. So think of it as a $1/$2 NLHE game.
• NLHE buy-ins range from $40 to $200 with the norm being about $100. It is not uncommon for (normal non drunk) players to be in for $300 to $500 total.
• We like action, so I DO NOT want for the game to feel restrictive when we shift to mixed limit games.
• I also do not want for the limit structure to be so low that half the players just chase everything to the river. That crap drives me nuts.
• Please keep in mind that most of my peeps are new to mixed games, so this will be a bit of a learning experience for them as well.

So, @Lil Tuna , @grebe , @FordPickup92 , @Ben0586 , @JRald07 , @Eazy , @detroitdad and others; what game do you think will fit nicely? I'm not looking to tailor this to drunk Gunny and drunk Rich, so you can disregard them from the equation. Not that they won't play, but I just don't want to structure a drunkfest mixed limit game.

 

[JRald07]

Since most of the peeps are new to mixed games I think doing limit will be better. Never want to have a players whole stack in on one hand if they're still learning. It will be an adjustment for new players to realize they need something close to the nuts or it may not be good enough.

As far as how big to make the small bet/big bet, I'll be following to allow the seasoned and veteran players give answers. I'm curious as well.

 

[FordPickup92]

Alright, I have reviewed a number of other threads, and I think I know the answer. But I want to get input from others (especially peeps that have played with us). For those who have not played with us, here is some general information about our game:

• Up until now, we have only played no limit hold em. I recently fell in love with mixed games, so I am looking for the optimal mixed game fixed limit structure.
• NLHE blinds are .50/$1, but the game plays more like a $1/$2 game, and sometime a $3/$5 game. However, the $3/$5 dynamic is ONLY when a hand full of drunk fools show up, and I am not looking to structure a mixed limit game as a drunkfest. So think of it as a $1/$2 NLHE game.
• NLHE buy-ins range from $40 to $200 with the norm being about $100. It is not uncommon for (normal non drunk) players to be in for $300 to $500 total.
• We like action, so I DO NOT want for the game to feel restrictive when we shift to mixed limit games.
• I also do not want for the limit structure to be so low that half the players just chase everything to the river. That crap drives me nuts.
• Please keep in mind that most of my peeps are new to mixed games, so this will be a bit of a learning experience for them as well.

So, @Lil Tuna , @grebe , @FordPickup92 , @Ben0586 , @JRald07 , @Eazy , @detroitdad and others; what game do you think will fit nicely? I'm not looking to tailor this to drunk Gunny and drunk Rich, so you can disregard them from the equation. Not that they won't play, but I just don't want to structure a drunkfest mixed limit game.

@Ben8257 @MegaTon44

 

[detroitdad]

I agree with @JRald07 I would start out with a fixed limit game or two so that they can get a tasted of the madness. Pot limit dealers choice will quickly turn into NL Dealers choice with your group. Until they learn the games I can see players being 300 deep very quickly.

Now you need to find a FL structure that will corelate to your NL games. I would suggest 4/8 or 5/10 with a kill button. I believe @Rhodeman77 uses a similar structure.

I would limit the Dealers choice tables to 7 or 8 max players. Even at 8 max players will need to sit out. Most of the games are 7 max player hands

 

[Lil Tuna]

Something else to think about is doing a spread limit game, say .50-$3 or $1-$5. This can allow players to add a little pressure at any time but won’t force players to play for stacks.
This would more or less create a slow bleed situation for many of the chasers but also take the “flip a coin scenario” out of the equation.
Turns a card game back into a card game and not a roll of the dice.

 

[FordPickup92]

Who the fuck voted for 4/8 limit lol we all gonna die

 

[detroitdad]

We play .25/.50 100 max buy in DC games. The first limit game I hosted was a 2/4 game. It was horrible. 3/6 seems to work best for us.

I played 4/8 at the DiD meet up and had a blast!

 

[detroitdad]

Who the fuck voted for 4/8 limit lol we all gonna die

I did. I think 3/6 limit with Kevin's group will play to small. You'll have family pots going to the river.

 

[JRald07]

I would suggest 4/8 or 5/10 with a kill button.

What's a kill button? Self explanatory??

Something else to think about is doing a spread limit game

That means bets are capped per street?

 

[FordPickup92]

Oh. Yeah not my bag.
I dont like fixed limit anyway it's tough to protect your hand. If I'm playing limit I prefer pot limit

 

[Lil Tuna]

Who the fuck voted for 4/8 limit lol we all gonna die

I’d prefer a $2-$10 spread limit myself. The $10 option could turn a potential street into $40. That would make people play much more strategic.

 

[Lil Tuna]

What's a kill button? Self explanatory??


That means bets are capped per street?

Typically capped at 3 raises per street.

 

[FordPickup92]

Maybe Kevin will let us felt the ash streets lol

 

[JRald07]

I would suggest 4/8 or 5/10 with a kill button.

So would buyins be $200+ ?

 

[detroitdad]

Oh. Yeah not my bag.
I dont like fixed limit anyway it's tough to protect your hand. If I'm playing limit I prefer pot limit

I hear that a lot. Its definitely a different game. If you bring the same strategy that you use at a PL game, you'll probably fail at FL. I don't mind games/structures that forces me to think differently about poker. I believe overall it will eventually make me a better player.

Some of the pros for FL is that its a less stressful. You are rarely playing for stacks. Another bonus is that you get to incorporate some triple draw games into the mix.

 

[detroitdad]

So would buyins be $200+ ?

uncapped buy in for FL games. For 4/8 I would suggested 300. $200 would work. I usually buy in for $500 (because its fun lol).

 

[JRald07]

uncapped buy in for FL games. For 4/8 I would suggested 300. $200 would work. I usually buy in for $500 (because its fun lol).

@Seeking Alpha Social Club you're going to need a lot of $1s! Lol

 

[churlbut18]

It sounds as if fixed limit would be the way to go…. $2/$4 with a $100 buy in seems too low though based on your description…. So $3/$6 or even $4/$8 might be best…. $3/$6 might be the sweet spot and easier to manage with $1’s, but you’d probably want $200 buy ins so that’d be 2 racks per player unless you get your $20/$25 value chips on the table right away…

 

[Rhodeman77]

I really like limit structure for circus games, especially if your group is moving from playing exclusively hold’em. It is a much less painful learning experience. But at the same time you need to make sure the pots are big enough to get them excited to play. Our first circus game we played as $2/4 and it sucked. It was way too small. After that we went to $4/8 with a 1/2 kill and have bumped it to $5/10 with a 1/2 kill and that feels much closer (but still smaller) than our regular $1/2 game.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

@Ben8257 @MegaTon44

Oh crap...I tagged the wrong Ben...LMAO!! Sorry @Ben8257 and @Ben0586 .

 

[Poker Zombie]

We have been incorporating different games into our mix at a rate of 1 per year. IMO, Limit is the best way to do so. The next best is PL tournaments, which requires a bit of a defensive mindset which limits the number of re-pots.

As to what the bets should be in Limit, our group is all over the board. Fortunately, I have 3 tables and can pitch a different structure at each table, using the same set so players can move between tables if they are in too deep (or not deep enough).

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

I agree with @JRald07 Pot limit dealers choice will quickly turn into NL Dealers choice with your group.

YES....this ^^^ is exactly what happened last Friday. It almost felt like pot limit stimulated more betting action than NL because people felt the need to bet the pot. And the bets were huge at times.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

I did. I think 3/6 limit with Kevin's group will play to small. You'll have family pots going to the river.

Yeah, but again, I don't want to structure to the drunk fest players. I might start out 3/6 and adjust up if needed.

 

[JRald07]

YES....this ^^^ is exactly what happened last Friday. It almost felt like pot limit stimulated more betting action than NL because people felt the need to bet the pot. And the bets were huge at times.

Blame Scarney for that

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Something else to think about is doing a spread limit game, say .50-$3 or $1-$5. This can allow players to add a little pressure at any time but won’t force players to play for stacks.
This would more or less create a slow bleed situation for many of the chasers but also take the “flip a coin scenario” out of the equation.
Turns a card game back into a card game and not a roll of the dice.

Ahhhhh....I like this idea!! So how does this work? Sorry, I'm new to all this AWESOME nonsense..LOL

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Maybe Kevin will let us felt the ash streets lol

View attachment 790283

HECK YEAH!!!

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

It sounds as if fixed limit would be the way to go…. $2/$4 with a $100 buy in seems too low though based on your description…. So $3/$6 or even $4/$8 might be best…. $3/$6 might be the sweet spot and easier to manage with $1’s, but you’d probably want $200 buy ins so that’d be 2 racks per player unless you get your $20/$25 value chips on the table right away…

Pretty consistent with what I was thinking. Thanks!

I really like limit structure for circus games, especially if your group is moving from playing exclusively hold’em. It is a much less painful learning experience. But at the same time you need to make sure the pots are big enough to get them excited to play. Our first circus game we played as $2/4 and it sucked. It was way too small. After that we went to $4/8 with a 1/2 kill and have bumped it to $5/10 with a 1/2 kill and that feels much closer (but still smaller) than our regular $1/2 game.

My intuition is that you are spot on. $2/$4 seems too small. We might try either $3/$6 or $4/$8 and then adjust from there. Thanks!

We have been incorporating different games into our mix at a rate of 1 per year. IMO, Limit is the best way to do so. The next best is PL tournaments, which requires a bit of a defensive mindset which limits the number of re-pots.

As to what the bets should be in Limit, our group is all over the board. Fortunately, I have 3 tables and can pitch a different structure at each table, using the same set so players can move between tables if they are in too deep (or not deep enough).

AWESOME advice; especially for the 2022 Alpha Shootout Thanks!

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Blame Scarney for that

Definitely, but even other games felt like John and Rob were betting larger than they normally would have.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Pretty consistent with what I was thinking. Thanks!

My intuition is that you are spot on. $2/$4 seems too small. We might try either $3/$6 or $4/$8 and then adjust from there. Thanks!

AWESOME advice; especially for the 2022 Alpha Shootout Thanks!

2022 Alpha Shootout? Why wasn't this on my radar sooner!?!

 

[grebe]

As a player in the last game, I definitely voted for 4/8 limit. Buyins would be 200-400, and it would be tough to lose more than 500/night. This is your group in a nutshell I think. 2/4 is too small. It all depends on which players will NEVER come to mixed game and which would embrace it. Hell, you can probably spread a 10/20 night with the right players and get a full table!

Spread limit is a weird thing that I personally am not a fan of. Even at @Lil Tuna 's game, I pretty much bet max every time if I was betting. The ability of betting minimum/raise minimum/reraise minimum to cap the betting small seems a little too collusion-y to me...I would rather just play the stuctured limit style that worked for years before Moneymaker ruined everything.

"Pot limit to protect your hand" just means 4 people allin on every other hand. It does not work well playing these games with way different equities. Especially if the goal is to have people play all night.

Also, I have a limit set. It's yours for as long as you need it.