Poker game legality... (1 Viewer)

home games are generally left alone in my part of the country, I have seen problems when folks start charging for alcohol, that is when the cops show up.
 
I have to admit, even my volunteer charity events does skirt various grey areas of provincial gaming law, because I don't apply for a license for my events. I protect myself and others with the following general rules:
- events take place in a private residence
- everybody who participates has their name on a guest list, and is not open to members of the general public; there is more than strictly social relationship established between hosts and attendees
- all money gathered gets donated to charity, with nothing held back for any reason
- donated money must go a registered charity, which is not pre-specified nor come from a suggested list
- all expenses covered by host with no monetary compensation
- tournament prizes are furnished by the host, is never cash, nor commensurate with the amount of money collected
- all other laws and bylaws adhered to i.e. no consumption of alcoholic beverages by minors, etc.
 
I’ve played in one or two “cop games” that included more than dozen LEOs including swot types and state police types. Interesting experience to say the least esp when there is literally a Sherrif taking the role of table sherrif.

I am very much appreciative and respectful of law enforcement, but I also do not generally ask cops for legal advice. They don’t know the intricacies and a lot of enforcement boils down to politics.
 
Reading a lot of these laws you see a common theme; states really don’t want people profiting from other people’s gambling. This is really apparent in the newer laws. Evidently PA takes in the highest amount of tax from gaming and that is what all this is about. The state wants their tax money or a license.

I do wish they would clarify but you never hear of any issue with home games until someone is trying to make money as an operator.

I only mention playing with cops because most generally do not like to put themselves in situations that could negatively impact their career. Law enforcement doesn’t seem to be as lenient on each other as they maybe were 20-30 years ago. I’ve heard of many examples of police giving DUIs to off duty cops. My cop friend usually won’t drink a single beer if he is driving....but plays cards every chance he has.
 
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Reading a lot of these laws you see a common theme; states really don’t want people profiting from other people’s gambling. Thus is really apparently in the newer laws. Evidently PA takes in the highest amount of tax from gaming and that is what all this is about. The state want their tax money or a license.

I do wish they would clarify but you never hear of any issue with home games until someone is trying to make money as an operator.

I only mention playing with cops because most generally do not like to put themselves in situations that could negatively impact their career. Law enforcement doesn’t seem to be as lenient on each other as they maybe were 20-30 years ago. For example I’ve heard of many examples of police giving DUIs to off duty cops. My cop friend usually won’t drink a single beer if he is driving....but plays cards every chance he has.

My best friend is a cop and regularly plays in my game, along with a few other cops too. They have even played in some games that have a rake, but won’t play in any games where drug use is going on. I will often scope out a game and let them know if there are any issues that could put them in an awkward spot before they look to play in it.
 
Maryland rules suck!

§ 9-1C-01. Home games
Notwithstanding any other provision of the Criminal Law Article, an individual who is at least 21 years old may conduct a home game involving wagering if the home game:
(1) is limited to mah jong or a card game;
(2) is conducted not more than once a week:
(i) in the place of residence of an individual who may also participate as a player in the home game; or​
(ii) in a common area of a residential property that is restricted to residents who are at least 55 years old;​
(3) allows a player to compete directly against one or more other players who share a preexisting social relationship;
(4) does not allow an individual to benefit financially in any way, directly or indirectly, other than from the winnings accrued by participating as a player in the game;
(5) does not involve:
(i) a player's use of an electronic device that connects to the Internet;​
(ii) the use of paid public advertising or promotions;​
(iii) the charging of a fee for admission, a seat, entertainment, or food and drink or any other fee; or​
(iv) the use of any money except money used for wagering; and​
(6) has a limit of $ 1,000 on the total amount of money, tokens representing money, or any other thing or consideration of value that may be wagered by all players during any 24-hour period.
I meet all of those except for 2(ii), and 6 ..
 
I’ve played in one or two “cop games” that included more than dozen LEOs including swot types and state police types. Interesting experience to say the least esp when there is literally a Sherrif taking the role of table sherrif.

Sounds like a municipal game I know about up in Binghamton. It's like 5 hours each way.
 
I’m shocked at how many states outlaw rake-free social home games. Especially the states that have casinos!

Does anyone in these states know of a genuine social game getting busted/someone getting fined for just the poker (no excessive noise, no drugs, etc)
In 2012 Chattanooga police raided a $20 buy-in game. Chattanooga police spokesman Officer Nathan Hartwig said "If we get calls on it, we're going to investigate it as minor as it may be. We have guys in our department who are specifically tasked to do that."

Basically, police don't care. They do enjoy having a job though, so when they are told to do their job, they do it. If you are going to skirt the law, fly low to stay off the radar.
 
In ohio you can have a private game with any stakes as long as nobody profits ... that would include rake of any sort, selling food / beverages, etc ... the clubs here charge a yearly membership and a daily fee to come and do whatever you want, play darts, pool, do nothing, and occasionally a poker game breaks out ... most of the games I've been to allow you to bring your own food and drink ...
 
Its legal in FL as long as it is a "penny ante" game (no pot bigger than $10). I'm curious how this applies to tournaments, as each hand doesn't have a specific dollar value.

If you win a $200 prize in a tournament, I'm sure you played more than 20 hands.


Statute
 
Ask the police. They are here to help you with questions like that.
Yeah right
Actually I dropped in at my local police station (RCMP detachment) and did just that. While they didn't give me a direct answer, they did direct me to the government agency that enforces gaming rules in my province (British Columbia Gaming Policy and Enforcement Branch). During a phone call to them, the person read through the rules (basically the Canadian Criminal Code, which pretty much prohibits any gaming for money) which I had read online, and the BCGPEB interpretation bulletin, which is not available online. She then told me that as long as the games were occasional and nobody was making any money other than winnings, they would not consider that a violation. She also told me good luck and have fun with my home game!
 
All State laws aside, in my experience the best way to avoid having your game get busted is to have a local law enforcement officer or judge play in your game.

Also, don’t have any well-connected neighbors easily annoyed by a bunch of strangers showing up in the neighborhood every week or two.
 
I have to admit, even my volunteer charity events does skirt various grey areas of provincial gaming law, because I don't apply for a license for my events. I protect myself and others with the following general rules:
- events take place in a private residence
- everybody who participates has their name on a guest list, and is not open to members of the general public; there is more than strictly social relationship established between hosts and attendees
- all money gathered gets donated to charity, with nothing held back for any reason
- donated money must go a registered charity, which is not pre-specified nor come from a suggested list
- all expenses covered by host with no monetary compensation
- tournament prizes are furnished by the host, is never cash, nor commensurate with the amount of money collected
- all other laws and bylaws adhered to i.e. no consumption of alcoholic beverages by minors, etc.
I suspect that this is not a grey area, it seems that there are violations occurring without a license (because money is being collected that is not returned to the players in its entirety), even though your intentions are honorable. But unless someone in your group complains to the authorities, I would guess that the odds of having a visit from the Police/BCGPEB are pretty slim.
 
I suspect that this is not a grey area, it seems that there are violations occurring without a license (because money is being collected that is not returned to the players in its entirety), even though your intentions are honorable. But unless someone in your group complains to the authorities, I would guess that the odds of having a visit from the Police/BCGPEB are pretty slim.

It's gambling if there's a chance you can win something of value. Everyone is guaranteed to lose 100% of their wagers at my fundraising events. But they will have a fun time losing it! ;)
 
It's gambling if there's a chance you can win something of value. Everyone is guaranteed to lose 100% of their wagers at my fundraising events. But they will have a fun time losing it! ;)
That could be an interesting argument - everybody who is coming to your fundraiser is making a donation to a charity when they arrive, and an unrelated poker event for no money paid and nothing wagered occurs later. I like it!
 
All State laws aside, in my experience the best way to avoid having your game get busted is to have a local law enforcement officer or judge play in your game.

Also, don’t have any well-connected neighbors easily annoyed by a bunch of strangers showing up in the neighborhood every week or two.
Sad part is, there is (was?) a thread where a once frequent member was busted. The law enforcement officer testified against him.

Think about it. If the police get a complaint, and a LEO is involved, the cops are going to give their buddy a chance to keep his job. The LEO may then be convinced to be "undercover".

Which weighs more, LEO $50,000/yr job, or a host's table and chips? Keep in mind, most players are clueless as to how much a nice setup really costs.
 
Think about it. If the police get a complaint, and a LEO is involved, the cops are going to give their buddy a chance to keep his job. The LEO may then be convinced to be "undercover".

Maybe where you live.

I live in a small, rural community. It’s really unlikely a bust of a poker game would happen without someone asking around first. Once they heard one of their buddies was involved, and could vouch for the venue, they’d likely leave it alone, unless there was something really sketchy going on. Or they’d pass word through their colleague to cool it, so they didn’t have to bust it. For better or worse, it’s a top-down system; almost every police action beyond routine traffic stops go way up the chain of command first.

Honestly, I doubt that there are any regular games in my area that the law doesn’t know about, and are tacitly fine with. It’s that tight of a community.

In fact, most of the games I frequent in the region feature someone prominent in law enforcement.

There’s a game in a town north of me where the local chief of police is a regular player (and a bad one at that). There’s another hosted by a retired officer, whose tourneys draw 70-80 people regularly, with games publicly noticed, and never hassled. A third features several active officers, and an assistant D.A.

Their presences are good for the security of the game. Not smart to try to rob a room where a policeman is playing, and several people are likely carrying.

The only busts of a poker room in the region that I know of were in the “big city” an hour away, in Albany. The room was (a) widely considered crooked, and (b) was the scene of more than one armed robbery. That kind of thing law enforcement can’t ignore.
 
That returns to the usual comment that almost every game is safe. It takes a complaint to get it noticed. If a complaint is filed (angry neighbor, pissed off player that was banned, etc.) the police have to investigate, especially if there are multiple complaints, of the complainer has a connection.

The police won't make your game safer. The idea that someone would solicit police officers to break the law so their game doesn't get busted ludicrous.
 
All legal in MO
Missouri Law on Private Gambling / Home Poker Games
With social gambling legal under Missouri law, poker players are also free to take part in home games with real-money betting. Remember - it's very important to not take a rake from the game, or to engage in any other behavior that resembles charging players to take part in the game. This includes tipping a dealer or cover charges ostensibly for food and entertainment.

Doing any of the above, or anything similar, risks violating Missouri's conditions for social gambling (located at 572.010, subsection 8). But, if you heed that rule - and if everyone in the game has an actual social relationship (one imagines friends of friends is sufficient) - then it's "shuffle up and deal" for your home game under Missouri law.
 
The police won't make your game safer. The idea that someone would solicit police officers to break the law so their game doesn't get busted ludicrous.

Scoff if you like. Just reporting the on-the-ground reality where I live.

Anyway, no one “solicits police officers to break the law” in any of these games. It’s just a fact that police officers (and judges, and prosecutors) often play in them, and sometimes even host them. Because they like poker.

And that has the effect of adding a level of safety and legitimacy to those games. I certainly feel safer for it.

It’s just human nature that fellow law enforcement officers are that much less likely to break up those games if they’ve heard from someone they trust that it’s mainly social and not a theft/violence risk. And thieves are less likely to bust in. At least, in a small community where people are more likely to know who’s who and what’s where.

That is, unless the game becomes a hazard and gets too brazen, like the one bigger city club I mentioned, which was operating more like a mini casino. (That was 4-5 days a week, lots of cash, inviting robberies which did occur. It actually got busted multiple times, but had no problem reopening... until the next incident.) Or if some bluenose becomes D.A.

Police and prosecutors and judges make their own calls all the time about crime. Some stuff they let slide, if it really isn’t harming anyone, and the official who could arrest or jail them sees some bigger picture. Sometimes if you get pulled over for speeding, you get a ticket; sometimes the officer gives you a friendli warning.

I suppose if you get some hardass with an agenda who thinks stopping poker games is a better use of their time than, say, rushing off to administer Narcan to the latest overdose victim, then sure, you might get busted even if the judge who would hear the case is sitting at the table.
 
I remember the hilarious (hilarious 'cause it no longer exists) title and function of "Bourreau de la Republique" in France (Executioner of the Republic).
Sounds pretty safe playing in the same game with him at the time, whatever the f*ckin poker law of the Republique may have been. :D
 
That could be an interesting argument - everybody who is coming to your fundraiser is making a donation to a charity when they arrive, and an unrelated poker event for no money paid and nothing wagered occurs later. I like it!

It's actually not poker. Blackjack and roulette only. Just about everybody on my invite list is a non-gambler or has a short attention span.
 
I used to host a game at a Bar/Restaurant across the street from Lambeau Field, owner wasnt a fan, manager had already told us we could. Even though it was technically illegal Manager had already called the police chief and he okay'd it. Said, as long as there was NO CASH on the tables they didn't care. So the owner approved it. Now what are they really going to do for a home game as long as you arent taking a rake and its a social game?!
 
I live in Texas along the border and I’ve been hosting a home game for 15 years. I was told by the police that as long as you don’t rake the pots or sell beer you are fine. He said they have bigger criminals to worry about (drugs).
 
I live near Nashville, TN. Bars in the area host free poker tournaments with a prize of a gift card. One near me also had a cash games for people that busted out of the tournament. I played once and it was .25/.25, but I heard they would do 1/1 if people wanted. We heard that some other bars in the are got in fines for having cash games, so they ended that at our bar. They still have the tournament for gift cards, but the cash game is done. I never saw anything in the news, so I don't think any arrests occurred.
 

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