Poker game legality... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ringer3
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ChipTalker
Flush
I believe it is different state by state.
This.
Iowa rules are basically: players must have some social connection besides poker, and no player can lose or win more $50 in a day. I’m sure the former rule is ignored quite a bit.
Psypher1000
Straight Flush
Look up your state statutes. Do the Google.
For what it's worth, I think you'll find Tennessee's gambling laws are some of the strictest in the nation. Pretty sure home games in any form are against TN statutes.
Search “Tennessee home poker laws” on the innerwebz. Or ask @Poker Zombie.
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ekricket
Royal Flush
Ask the police. They are here to help you with questions like that.
DrStrange
4 of a Kind
The law varies by state. Enforcement differs by jurisdiction. Social status makes a difference in some cases. Other factors may also affect the legal risks.
Fun facts - the local chamber of commerce got a written opinion (which I have seen) by then Texas AG Abbot suggesting even a "you're the winner!" certificate constituted a "thing of value" that criminalized the poker tournament. Abbot also suggested that ordering a pizza where two or more players shared the cost also made a poker game unlawful. To my knowledge, none of that has been tested in court but it is still a bit unnerving.
There is no substitute for legal advice from a lawyer with professional skill in the appropriate area. Not so much for a true home game, but the closer you are to a profit seeking underground room the more you need good advice.
Be mindful that some states have draconian gambling statutes that are largely unenforced. In the worst states a deck of cards or a single die can be considered a gambling paraphernalia. Sure, no one has been arrested for owning a monopoly game - - - - but the law is still on the books lurking.
DrStrange
Fun facts - the local chamber of commerce got a written opinion (which I have seen) by then Texas AG Abbot suggesting even a "you're the winner!" certificate constituted a "thing of value" that criminalized the poker tournament. Abbot also suggested that ordering a pizza where two or more players shared the cost also made a poker game unlawful. To my knowledge, none of that has been tested in court but it is still a bit unnerving.
There is no substitute for legal advice from a lawyer with professional skill in the appropriate area. Not so much for a true home game, but the closer you are to a profit seeking underground room the more you need good advice.
Be mindful that some states have draconian gambling statutes that are largely unenforced. In the worst states a deck of cards or a single die can be considered a gambling paraphernalia. Sure, no one has been arrested for owning a monopoly game - - - - but the law is still on the books lurking.
DrStrange
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
In Tennessee, gambling is illegal. Gambling is defined as "Risking anything of value for a profit whose return is to any degree contingent on chance, not including lawful business transactions".
Exemptions have been made for the state lottery, off-track betting on horse races. Sports betting will be added to that list on July 1st of this year.
Therefore, poker itself is not illegal, but risking money on it is.
Back when the Poker Players Alliance was actively challenging state laws, they did so by pointing out that poker is a game of skill, not chance. Since auto racing is also legal (pay an entry fee, win prize money, element of chance involved with part failure or unavoidable accident) that they cannot legally allow one and disallow another without a specific law. The PPA won with that argument in a number of states, although they never battled it in Tennessee. It would have been interesting to see - however would not want my little game to be the litmus test.
Exemptions have been made for the state lottery, off-track betting on horse races. Sports betting will be added to that list on July 1st of this year.
Therefore, poker itself is not illegal, but risking money on it is.
Back when the Poker Players Alliance was actively challenging state laws, they did so by pointing out that poker is a game of skill, not chance. Since auto racing is also legal (pay an entry fee, win prize money, element of chance involved with part failure or unavoidable accident) that they cannot legally allow one and disallow another without a specific law. The PPA won with that argument in a number of states, although they never battled it in Tennessee. It would have been interesting to see - however would not want my little game to be the litmus test.
Old State
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I assume everything us legit in PA. I’ve currently have and have previously played with several regular players who were cops. Unless you are profiting with a rake (operating a casino without a license basically).
Even in states that have laws against it, I would be curious to see how often those laws are enforced.
Even in states that have laws against it, I would be curious to see how often those laws are enforced.
From what I have seen online, the law in PA is fairly vague. It doesn't appear that law enforcement is necessarily looking for home games, but all it can take is one sour neighbor and a local PD that decides they don't like your setup.
Pennsylvania's Poker Laws
Almost all states in America attempt to define the act of gambling via state law. But while Pennsylvania law does have a lot to say about the subject of gambling, you won't find a clear definition of "gambling" on the books. Faced with such a situation, we're left to consider common sense and case law to determine whether or not poker is a form of gambling for the purposes of Pennsylvania law. The reasonable conclusion is that poker qualifies as gambling in Pennsylvania.
Per Pennsylvania law, gambling must be "specifically" authorized by law, or else it is considered "illegal gambling." So, if poker is gambling, to play poker legally in Pennsylvania you must do so in a manner specifically authorized by law.
Those conditions result in one primary outlet for legal poker in Pennsylvania: state-regulated casinos. The positive side is that such casinos have proliferated in Pennsylvania over the last few years, meaning residents who once had to drive to New Jersey or even Massachusetts to play poker in a live casino now have options much closer to home.
The exceptions for charitable gambling in Pennsylvania do not include poker. And, unlike neighboring Ohio, Pennsylvania does not have an exception for "social" gambling (aka your weekly home game).
But, in a final twist for poker players, the state of Pennsylvania does not seem to have any charges on the books for players. So, in theory, if everyone in the game is a player - and no one is operating the game for a profit - a private game of poker, while technically against the letter of the law, would seem to invite no risk of criminal charge.
@MegaTon44 - Dan, ever have an issue with a neighbor or local PD with your game, which tends to run fairly large?
This is a great point and I make it at nearly every game of mine. Everyone seems to think that no rake = legal in PA. In reality, it is still technically considered a game of chance and is illegal. However, I read about a case where a person hosted a game in their garage, got in trouble, then argued that NLHE was a skill game (not a game of chance) and that it was a social gathering. From what I recall, the court accepted this explanation and he was exonerated. My game plays a bit bigger than a regular garage game, but we have a decent bit of property (1.5 acres) and most company doesn't drastically infringe on the neighbors. No issues yet (knock on wood).
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Old State
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In the early 2000’s before I was married I lived in a house with a lawyer and a cop. Both played in my pokers games. Back then I asked the cop what his perception of the law was. He was under the impression that a home game was basically fine as long as the host isn’t trying to make a profit. He also admitted that most of his colleagues don’t really know or care about the law regarding poker home games. I remember him saying you would have to be engaged in a lot of other stupid activities for them to even look into it as a charge.
My current neighbor and friend is a cop and also plays with us in a regular basis. I asked him once and he felt it was no worse than a misdemeanor but also said he doesn’t know a cop who would break balls about it. He said several of his colleagues play poker in home games.
I only mention this to illustrate how some cops may view the law regarding this. Also remember there are probably many laws on the books routinely and purposely ignored by law enforcement because many feel they are antiquated or just plain stupid.
My current neighbor and friend is a cop and also plays with us in a regular basis. I asked him once and he felt it was no worse than a misdemeanor but also said he doesn’t know a cop who would break balls about it. He said several of his colleagues play poker in home games.
I only mention this to illustrate how some cops may view the law regarding this. Also remember there are probably many laws on the books routinely and purposely ignored by law enforcement because many feel they are antiquated or just plain stupid.
I have at least one lawyer that plays in my game regularly. I asked him this very question - he responded "Don't break the law, while breaking the law". Seems maybe I should find a lawyer that doesn't get his quotes from poker movies
While all of the above is likely true, if the local DA shares a different opinion - the cops still come - and they bring a lot of their friends.
Based on recent events here in Houston, it's not the cops you should be worried about, it's the DA!
Edit: Craig beat me to it!
Edit: Craig beat me to it!
Local DA getting paid by the casinos to sound the alarm about the moral dangers of home poker games?
Who know what politics will make those monkeys do. Currently the Texas legislature is working through a whole bunch of bull* laws to further degrade our liberties and freedoms.
18xx Board Gamer
Pair
Maryland rules suck!
§ 9-1C-01. Home games
Notwithstanding any other provision of the Criminal Law Article, an individual who is at least 21 years old may conduct a home game involving wagering if the home game:
(1) is limited to mah jong or a card game;
(2) is conducted not more than once a week:
(4) does not allow an individual to benefit financially in any way, directly or indirectly, other than from the winnings accrued by participating as a player in the game;
(5) does not involve:
§ 9-1C-01. Home games
Notwithstanding any other provision of the Criminal Law Article, an individual who is at least 21 years old may conduct a home game involving wagering if the home game:
(1) is limited to mah jong or a card game;
(2) is conducted not more than once a week:
(i) in the place of residence of an individual who may also participate as a player in the home game; or
(ii) in a common area of a residential property that is restricted to residents who are at least 55 years old;
(3) allows a player to compete directly against one or more other players who share a preexisting social relationship;(4) does not allow an individual to benefit financially in any way, directly or indirectly, other than from the winnings accrued by participating as a player in the game;
(5) does not involve:
(i) a player's use of an electronic device that connects to the Internet;
(ii) the use of paid public advertising or promotions;
(iii) the charging of a fee for admission, a seat, entertainment, or food and drink or any other fee; or
(iv) the use of any money except money used for wagering; and
(6) has a limit of $ 1,000 on the total amount of money, tokens representing money, or any other thing or consideration of value that may be wagered by all players during any 24-hour period.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Suck? I'd take those laws over Tennessee laws in a heartbeat!
I’ve also never gotten a speeding ticket, but the rules are pretty clear. I think your question has been answered, which is “no, just because you aren’t raking doesn’t make your game allowable under Tennessee state law.” Obvs the likelihood of enforcement/punishment are quite low despite that.
I have at least one lawyer that plays in my game regularly. I asked him this very question - he responded "Don't break the law, while breaking the law". Seems maybe I should find a lawyer that doesn't get his quotes from poker movies
^^^^^
THIS
Stay Safe: No hookers and blow during cards.
Seeking Alpha Social Club
4 of a Kind
Depends on the state you live in. I live in VA where nearly every game is illegal if they want it to be.
- Can't take a rake
- Can't collect or accept money for food and/or alcohol.
- Can't be a regularly scheduled event
And a whole host of other restrictions.
Rhodeman77
Straight Flush
I have at least one lawyer that plays in my game regularly. I asked him this very question - he responded "Don't break the law, while breaking the law". Seems maybe I should find a lawyer that doesn't get his quotes from poker movies
This is really a good point. The chances of having your game raided are probably slim to none if no other illegal activities are going on. Keep the drugs out. Make sure if a player drinks too much they sleep it off at your place. You don’t need someone getting a DUI saying they came from your poker game where you were supplying them the booze!
Seeking Alpha Social Club
4 of a Kind
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